Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Recommended Resources Dimension M algebra I game

I found this game which seems to be similar to Lure of the Labrynth. It teachers pre-algebra and ALgebra I concepts in a first-person video game format. I haven't played it but thought others might want to give it a try and report back.

OUch, didn't realize you had to buy it. So far I only see school site license but will inquire about individual pricing.

http://www.dimensionm.com/

We're always looking for these types of games LMK what you find out. Thanks.

JB

Well, I did find the demo links. I'm waiting for the email verification to try it out. I did find that you can purchase it right online. Maybe it was the multiplayer that was a school site license?

JB

ah thanks JBDad, I found the individual pricing! I'll register for the demo for the pre-algebra game.

Hmm I didn't have any email verification. It sent me an email immediately and it is now downloading.

Interested in your thoughts on this. I let DS6 play the prealgebra game for a little bit (basically a tutorial on the coordinates system). A little more arcade/game than education at this point. But then again DS's coordination might be an issue for a fast paced third person style game.

JB

Huh. Lure of the Labrynth looks pretty good. Have you played it? We might try that later today.

JB

Yes we've played LofL. I think it's pretty good. I need to play some of the games myself. My 6yr old has just started playing it. If you want to follow your son's progress, then you need to sign up as an educator. that took them about a week to send me. Then you get this administrator tool and you can manage more than 1 kid, see areas they've mastered, how long he played each game etc. But, if he starts playing now, then you become an administrator, he has to start all over. So if you like that sort of thing, I wouldn't let him get too far before you get the administrator tool activated to your account. My 9yr old is pretty far into LofL. My friend's 9yr old just finished it. There are parts to it that I needed the cheat sheet for lol.

I wonder how much of the demo was more of the game aspect to get people to come on board? Perhaps the whole game has more of the math aspect? the reviews were just glowing. If you look at the topics covered under hte pre-algebra module, it looks good on paper.

That's definitely a possibility with the demo game. Timez Attack was a little like that. I know we need something new. TA is very old hat at this point and DS can do elementary algebra. I'll look into this more. Thanks for both suggestions!

JB

DS9 and DS6 played the pre-algebra Evolver demo. It involved perfect squares, prime numbers, and odd-even. I didn't see anything about coordinates in this demo. It was a fun way to bring up those topics w/ my DS6. I don't know if it's worth $70. I'll have to take another look at the website later.

Ah, you're right. I downloaded both the pre-algebra (Evolver) and the algebra demo (Dimenxian). The algebra demo had the coordinate system at the beginning.

I was relatively impressed with Evolver. There are two things that might be an issue for us: (1) the video was a little choppy and the mouse was too sensitive. I was trying to adjust that. (2) it's probably more advanced game-wise for DS6. The math he could handle. The game-playing part of it might be a little beyond him at the moment. That being said, the same was true when he started playing Timez Attack. In the beginning I did the controls for that game, and he just did the math. Now it's second nature to him. DW suggested (as I was evaluating the game) that would likely be true for this game as well. He's been begging for Timez Attack to have squares, primes, negative numbers, etc., so that part of it is a really good fit.

I'm going to try out Dimenxian for a bit this evening.

Evolver would be a slam-dunk at $30 (same as Timez Attack IIRC). At twice that price it is inline with an xbox game but it makes it a tougher call.

JB

HHmm I didn't find Evolver to be choppy at all. I'm on a Mac. I didn't actually watch my DS6 play. His older brother, DS9, was helping him and explaining to him about prime numbers.

I agree...at $30 I would have hit the buy button already...got to chew on $60 though.

Okay, so normally you can purchase Evolver for about $20 which is typical for an online game.

Google Shopping Search

But that is for missions "1-5" and the download is for all 20 missions. That makes a little more sense from a pricing perspective.

There was one page on their website that broke down the topics (it was really good and of course I can't find it now). I was impressed at the material covered. We'll likely purchase it this week. If I can figure out how to get back to that list of material covered, I'll post.

JB

Ah. I'll have to try it on the mac mini I have. The boys have a PC in the common room for general use.

JB

Here we go.... a lot DS has covered in Murderous Maths, but since he loves Timez Attack, I'm sure he'd love playing out these topics in a different game.

Mission 1

* Prime Numbers
* Even and Odd Numbers
* Perfect Squares

Mission 2

* Prime Factors
* Greatest Common Factor
* Least Common Multiple

Mission 3

* Additive Identify
* Additive Inverse Identify
* Associative Property
* Commutative Property
* Distributive Property
* Multiplicative Identify

Mission 4

* Order of Operations (PEMDAS)

Mission 5

* Equivalent Fractions
* Comparing Fractions
*

Mission 6

* Ratios & Rates

Mission 7

* Proportions

Mission 8

* Integers and Number Lines

Mission 9

* Adding Integers
* Subtracting Integers

Mission 10

* Multiplying Integers
* Adding, Subtracting, Multiplying, and Dividing Integers

Mission 11

* Variables and Expressions

Mission 12

* Translating Phrases into Expressions

Mission 13

* Identifying and Combining Like Terms

Mission 14

* Distributive Property with Variables
* Evaluating Expressions

Mission 15

* Writing Equations

Mission 16

* Solving One-step Equations
* Solving Two-step Equations

Mission 17

* Pattern Recognition
* Pattern Generalization

Mission 18

* Function Tables
* Linear Equations and Functions

Mission 19

* Finding Coordinates

Mission 20

* Plotting Coordinates
* Inferring Coordinates

Yes I was impressed with the list of topics covered. Are you purchasing all the missions for the $60? Perhaps I'll let you go first lol.

Probably... I let DS play this morning before I left for work. He was able to manage the controls (mostly) without a whole lot of help.

JB

DW reminded me that DS was playing Lure of Labyrinth last year. We had mixed results. That's mostly due to the fact that we stuck got on one part. No one in the house could figure out what to do next! But DS did enjoy many of the mini-games.

So for I like Evolver.

JB

JBDad - you mean you didn't check out the teacher cheat seats? Not that I needed them.

SO JBDad - go ahead and hit the buy button.

Yeah, I just had to make sure that it was a downloadable game. It is. I'll set up DS when I get home this evening.

JB

Fantastic!

OH where did you get stuck on Lure of the Labrynth?

BTW, I did order the game. One thing to note is that this is a downloadable game. Normally that means you can download it as soon as you place the order. I ordered it just after their office closed for the day and apparently it's not automated. Long story short, I did have to wait a business day before I could install it. Not a huge deal but if you order it on the weekend it could take a few days before you can play the whole game.

DS is very excited to play... he wants to show his mom the new math game...

JB

Great! My boys are chomping at the bit for me to order the program. Let me know what you think.

Any updates JBDad on the pre-algebra game? HOw's it going?

I was going to wait for one or two missions before giving a thorough review... In fact maybe we could ask for a sub-forum in Recommended Resources for reviewing educational games and online resources? Hmmm...

The short of it is that DS6 really, really likes it. And... a positive for us... it's going into things that he does not know. While they game does a good job explaining concepts, some concepts do require that I explain it in a little more detail. For example, distributive and communicative properties of multiplication (we're currently on for this mission). He'll get it, but it helps if I give a little more explanation that is given in the game. Considering that this game is meant to be an adjunct to learning (or simply reinforcement) that doesn't surprise me. As mathy as he is, I wouldn't expect him to get all of the concepts just from this game.

I'll post more probably by the end of the week... unless school starting (Monday) distracts us.

JB

Finger is on the buy button......any more thoughts?

Because school has started we haven't had much time to play (and DS got on restriction for the day...)

I think we'll get value out of it. It's not out of line with a real xbox game. DS has needed some guidance on some math concepts, but they are pretty advanced. It can have periods where it's more arcade than learning game, but I'm okay with that.

I'll be interested to hear what you think too.

JB

We got a little farther in the game this weekend. I like it. It's covering some more formal math topics and filling in gaps that DS hasn't gotten from just us talking about math. A good win I think. I love how they also let you make mistakes (send out more badies). The journal concept is good too because it let's DS refer back to instructional material (one sheaters--perfect for him) when he doesn't immediately know the concept being introduced. Good puzzles too. Only real big complaint is that you can't save mid-mission. They can take a while to do the first time through.

D&C what did you think?

JB


JB

I haven't hit the buy button yet lol. I thought I'd give you some more time to play with it. BUt you're convincing me. What is the journal concept you spoke of?

And please, call me Dazey.

We're playing today more now that it's a holiday weekend. He completed one mission yesterday and one this morning... I really like it! It's stretching DS which is perfect. For example, this "mission" is about orders of operations. They have been very clever about how they created the game so for example, this one flower "pod" is an expression like 5 x ((10+2)/6) + 2 and you have "charge" each branch of the pod. Each branch would be some sub-expression like 10 + 2, 12/6, 5 x 2, etc. BTW this is given after your in game companions introduce the concepts so it's not like you're expected to know it right off the bat.

The journal entry is some very basic written text that describes the concepts currently being covered in each mission. I do have to help every now and then and explain something in more detail. But in general, the boy is getting it. I am sure it will take some repetition for him to have mastery but a) in the school systems when he'd get to this level, he'd be getting full blown instruction by a teacher, and b) he loved Timez Attack so much I know that he'll play and re-play the missions over and over again. Really when I jump in to help DS it's usually more about helping him find the next widget in the game or find the exit.

The only negative is that the game is a little choppy on the laptop that we have set up for the kids. On the Mac Mini it's great (but that is currently set up in my office). I may let them "borrow" the Mac though. Make sure you play the demo copy to see if performance is acceptable on your computer.

Very happy with the purchase otherwise.

JB

WE played the demo on our iMac 2.4GHz intel Core Duo and it worked just fine. It wasn't choppy at all.

Sigh.... i may have to fork over the money to buy this game lol.

Okay, this should be good. DS today had to write about what he did this summer. First they drew a picture and then they wrote sentences about it. He drew a picture of him on the computer, a picture of him visiting his grandmother and then a picture of him going to the hospital. (This is, in fact, reverse chronological order )

For the picture of him on the computer he wrote that he "played Evolver, a math game (pre-algebra)"... He wrote several sentences all about it, but this should be a good starting point for discussion! I haven't seen it--so this is his recounting of the story. It'll be interesting to see what he drew and wrote!

The teacher also gave him differentiated "money" math today so we're starting off on a good note... In the last section he wrote a "problem" for the teacher that went something like "My dad has -1 dollars. I have 7 dollars. When my dad pays me the money he owes me, how much money will I have?" Yeah, I owe the boy 1 allowance

JB

Fantastic!!!

The finger is on the buy button. Must. press. button.

Just wanted to say thanks for talking about this game. I just bought it for my math-hating DS9 - and he loves it. Anything that makes math fun for him is a positive for us. It balances the traditional math he still has to do for school. Thanks again!

I'm still eyeing it. The $60+ price tag is slowing me down, too, but I have it bookmarked...

Downloaded the demo and got a 'blue screen' and system reboot - guess i won't be ordering the full version

I couldn't find a demo and had emailed asking for one. Finally gave up. btw, we have Vista and it works fine. Too bad it didn't work on your computer.

DS has been playing all morning. I have to be around to help him go through the math or he wouldn't do it and there appears to be no penalty for wrong answers (he's not one to bother with the explanations and is happy to just click on everything until he gets it right). Still, this morning we've already (willingly) reviewed GCF, LCM, commutative and distributive properties and more. Looking at the website, you can click on topics covered in the various levels. There is math evolver game on Amazon for $19 which has 15 levels. I'd suggest emailing the company and asking what the difference is. I've got to wonder what the extra $50 buys you.

My understanding was that the Amazon game was only levels 1-5. A reviewer mentioned that in the review. It does mention 15 concepts covered whereas there seems to be more on the full priced game.

I definitely agree that its pricey as far as children's computer games go. I thought of it as comparable to an xbox game and pricewise that's inline. Given how much our DS has enjoyed Timez Attack and has been ready for the next level for a while, it worked for us. YMMV.

JB

Yes, the Amazon version is only 5 levels (I looked at that too).

There are (albeit minor) penalties for incorrect answers. During the game if you make a mistake, usually another baddie will come out and attack you. During the last phase of review (Q&A) answering incorrectly will have an effect on getting bronze, silver, or gold. Knowing our DS, that works for us because he'll play and replay levels until he gets gold medals.

We're still pretty happy with our purchase. We have developed our "school year weekend routine": mornings play outside, lunch, rest time (he reads, other kids sleep), then Evolver for a little bit.

The only thing that I didn't like is that you can't save mid-mission.

Buying the game also gives you online play. I have not evaluated that yet.

JB

Thanks, JB Dad. Since we downloaded it, DS is playing online (but just him as far as we know). Now I understand better how the game works. DS is alread on level 5 - just like Aleks, he does the required minimum and moves on. I see a pattern here, lol! Thanks so much for recommending this game. It's only day one, but DS is begging to play.

I also thought Amazon was levels 1-5, but the box image seems to show 1-15. Well, I'm sure someone will contact them and ask.

I was trying to evaluate online game play but ran into issues. It might be how I have his account configured (parental controls).

I did jump ahead and test out one of the later missions (shhh don't tell your DS that you can skip). They pretty much get right into equations and algebra by the end. Good stuff.

JB

A few more helpful things. It says that the single player Evolver game is quite large. Here are the technical reqt's: http://www.tabuladigita.com/support/systemrequirements.html

I also realized that once you have a username and password and can log in on www.tabuladigita.com and click on the "learning center," click on a "module," and then launch the "instructional module" where there are explanations and activities. The explanations in the journal area of the game itself were pretty much just summaries. The instructional module appears to actually teach the topics. So we got more than we bargained for.

Apparently, there is no multi-player online game for single users of Evolver (I guess as opposed to schools). He just signed in on the online vs. offline part of the first screen. I also have parental controls on DS's side of the computer, but I just realized he played on my side today. So far, it's been a review of prior EPGY and Aleks, but moving forward, I think we'll have to use the instructional modules.

Did you create your profile by clicking "Play Online" on the first screen? That is where I was running into issues. It was saying that it couldn't connect to the server. I'm on a Mac and have parental controls enabled so I was thinking that was the issue. I've got the registration code so we should be able to create an online profile and play online. I'd love to get those instructional modules. (Might refresh my memory as well...)

JB

Okay I figured out what I needed to do to create an account (I had to create the login from that first screen). I looked at the online teaching modules for each mission and math area.

Wow.

This is *totally* worth the money if you use the online guided instruction with the game. We don't do EPGY or Aleks so I can't compare, but I'm very happy to see these teaching modules. They should promote that part of it more IMO.

(Now if I could just convince the school to teach DS this during the day...)

JB

Could you tell me more about the online guided instruction? What is it? Why is it so good?

We have Descartes' Cove and DS8 loves that. Is it doing something similar? (If you are familiar with D's Cove...)

DW is really eying Descartes' Cove... After DS is finished with this game, we'll probably get Cove. However, I'm guessing that Evolver will last us until at least Christmas as DS only really plays it during the weekends and likes replaying levels.

Each mission/level (of which there are 20) covers between 1 and 3 math concepts. They are covered pretty well in the game, but I wouldn't say that it's instructional. I'd place it in the category of a game that uses concepts that you'd ordinarily learn in school. For example, when they do order of operations ("PEMDAS") they do explain it and you have to use your knowledge of order of operation to complete the level. At the end there is a brief "quiz" that is required to complete the mission. I was okay with this because either DS was getting enough out of the game to figure it our, or I would just spend a moment or two and explain something to him.

After seeing what they offer online, I'll probably have him do the lessons there first, then play the level. When you go to the learning center area they provide you with typically 1 (but as many as 3) flash based games that I would say are much more focused on instruction and review of a given concept. I've said to DW, gee I wish THIS is what he was doing for homework! They go into more detail and relate directly to the level in the game and concepts covered there. The virtual "manipulatives" that I've seen so far are SOOOOOO much better than what DS is getting in school.

Between the game and the online learning center, I don't think you're missing a whole lot that would be covered in pre-algebra. Part of what I've been worried about with DS is that when we informally talk about math, I'm probably skipping concepts. The game has been pretty good about making sure you cover all of it.

JB

Hi, JBDad,

Yes, he logged in on the first screen to play online. Then on the website, there is a place to see your scores. It's not set up for single users yet, but says the feature is coming soon. It appears to be a full curriculum. Nothing tricky, but teaching all the rules, like order of operations, rates and ratios, etc.

Kriston,

As I recall, Descartes Cove doesn't really have the instruction. You can read how to do things - right? - but there aren't practice exercises other than those in the game to collect the stuff you need to play. The instructional module online has activities - it makes you identify the correct symbol for square units, for example, and after you do that, the screen changes and you're asked to do something else. All in the context of the game and trying to accomplish the mission - plus the game voices read the script outlining the problem. Not sure I can get DS to do the intructional modules routinely, but for anyone looking for fun math, I think it's a winner.

But - we are not "mathy" types around here. I used to be, but that was so long ago I don't remember. So this isn't teaching the why so much as the how. I can't comment on the level of instruction and how it compares to Aleks and EPGY and Thinkwell. What it does for us, however, is more important at this stage - it makes DS hugely excited about math. And from reading the website, I believe that was the purpose to begin with. DS went from having math as his favorite subject to hating math after doing EPGY 3rd grade through CTY. I'm hoping this brings him back.

They do have demos. We didn't wait. Contact the company, try it out and let us know what you think.

Ok I'm trying to register online so I can access the teacher info. I can't recall how we got the registration code. I tried using the google checkout number but it says "invalid key." I only have the emails confirming the order and payment. I can't find the email that must have contained the download information. I would assume a registration code was contained in it?

HHHHEEEELLLLLPPPPP!

Dazey (and yep, still confuzed)

In the email that I got from them, it included a key that started with "DME" I think. I am sure you can email them to get it resent to you. They got back to me pretty quickly (during business hours).

The one thing that was a little annoying was that you had to create your account from within the game. So I had to type in that looooong number and couldn't just copy and paste it from the email.

Hope that HHHHHHEEEEELLLLPPPPS :-)

JB

YEs, that helps! I emailed them and will hopefully hear back tomorrow. I even searched my online email which hasn't been deleted yet and it's not there. It may have went to my other email and that trash has been emptied. I have two receipts but not the download email. And I never delete things like that. So I guess it has to wait. You guys got me all excited and I know I have show extreme patience and delayed gratification.

I FOUND IT!!!!!!!!! I just went to my email and randomly clicked on the page to activate Firefox and the email popped up!!!! It actually came in BEFORE the receipt so I was looking AFTER that time frame. WHEW!

Dazey (not as confuzed)

LOL!

JB

Ok I registered and DS did the prime number tutorial. But can you have multiple registrations for different members of the family? he's playing under my username but I'd like for him to have his own.

Ok that was pretty weird my just randomly clicking and it being the ONE email I had been searching for, for over 15minutes?

Insert spooky music here.....

Yeah, I found that out after the fact as well. One user name and password. I just log in DS on my behalf and then he does the lessons. I've decided that I want him to do the lessons *first* and then the missions. Since we switched computers, he re-doing the first 5 missions, but going forward after that we'll do online tutorials then the game.

JB

Follow up: The game is really sinking in. This morning DS (correctly) told me about the laws of mathematics (Distributive, Communicative, Inverse Identity...) It's harder for him to pronounce the words than to explain the concept

He's also starting writing a series of "books", one for each mission. I'm glad that he's incorporating writing into his interest! (And I'm a little bit proud of him because at open house the teacher was talking about getting children to use proper capitalization for a single sentence, and he's correctly using quotations for character dialog, commas, etc.)

Good stuff!

JB

(to the 9th power)

Forgive me if I'm misreading your and having a humour miscommunication, but I think that's the second time you've typed "communicative" for "commutative" and I don't like to think that you may be correcting your DS from a correct pronunciation to an incorrect one... reassure me?!

Glad it's going well. I reckoned it seemed likely to be too scary for DS for now, but did order Descartes Cove which looked a little friendlier (though it's probably not for just yet). We'll see. He was very interested in the info re fiery eggs in TA, so thanks again.

Ha! I'm sure you're right! I'm going to have to re-review the material myself



JB