Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Some advice needed...

I haven't posted here in a while, primarily because I forgot my password, but still read regularly and still learn and appreciate hearing about everyone else's experiences. Here's where we are now...

My son G turned 4 on Friday. He has been in a very play based church pre-school/day care since March. We like this pre-school because it is very focused on big motor skills, lots of gym time and outdoor play time, has seasoned teachers and a long standing, very well regarded reputation in our community. He needs as much of that as he can get. Although we have not yet had him tested, I suspect that G will test at highly or profoundly gifted.

After about 3 months at his new school, his director suggested that we ask a specialist from our county's mental health center to come in and observe G at school. Specifically, G has been having sporadic temper tantrums, but more importantly, has not formed any significant relationships with any of the other students, preferring the company of his teachers at all times. The director has also stated that she has never had a child at G's level of advancement in her program (and she's been there for about 20 years) and wanted some advice on how best to engage him.

We went ahead with the observation and this morning we met with the therapist and the teachers at the school.

The meeting was good, no big cause for concern, the therapist shared a DECA assessment with us. She does recommend "play therapy" one on one for G with a therapist at their facility. She described it as a way to teach Graham how to interact through creative play, how to better manage his emotions, etc.

Although that sounds really nice, I guess my question is how will play therapy with an adult help him connect with other children? And there's a small part of me that thinks that maybe they want to do this with him because the therapist (admittedly) hadn't come across a child like him in all her years of assessment. I sort of got the vague impression they wanted to get a look at him in captivity, if you know what I mean.

This county mental health service is mainly employed for children who have behavioral or mental issues as a result of trauma, abuse, etc. I'm concerned that these folks have no experience dealing with the issues of gifted children.

Before this recommendation, we were planning on having G assessed a year from now by Dr. Amend here in town and getting some guidance from him on how G was doing as well as some help with school decisions. G would be a very young 5 starting school in fall of 2010.

What would you do? Go ahead and start play therapy as suggested? Bump up the timetable with Dr. Amend and get a 2nd opinion even though he's only newly 4 and I'm not sure testing should be done yet? Do nothing and stick with the original plan of waiting until next summer?

Help!?!

And thanks....

I would suggest calling Dr. Amend now and asking what he suggests, as you plan to see him anyway.

Loved that "in captivity" line, btw.

Thanks, questions. Of course, that's what I should do. Just called and left a message.

This has been the first possible "lab specimen" run in we've had, but something tells me it may not be the last. I sort of want to avoid those at all costs.

I read the book "Misdiagnoses" since this whole thing started and it became very clear to me that we really want only practitioners who specialize in "gifted" to diagnosis him...if there's any diagnosis to be done. I really don't want to get mired in the mental health system if all his "quirks" (and in my gut that's what I think they are) can be tied to the giftedness and won't cause him problems down the road.

In our area, the process is to contact the local school district who will set up an psychologist to do the evaluation for social, behavioral, and (in other cases) learning challenges. I have never heard of it being done by the county mental health service, but it might be that my state (NY)works differently. I think their observation about his relationships is very interesting - as they are not saying he doesn't have relationships.. just that they are not with the other children. I have a 2E son with some social issues and it seems like the end-all be-all to a lot of people is peer relationships, when this is just one piece of the picture. Not that it doesnt need to be dealt with, but it is a very positive thing that he is bonding with the adults.
irene

Doesn't answer your question - but I'm comforted that some education related folks are willing to say that... to point their parents into gt related conversations.

I'd also point out that in that sort of environment, relationships with the teachers might very well BE peer relationships, in all the ways that matter to your child!

To your point, Irene...I stated in the meeting that although I want him to have kid friends, I am convinced that he doesn't have attachment difficulties. he's a really affectionate, empathetic, engaged kid...just with adults and not other kids his age at this point. I really think that if the 8 year olds were willing to have a 4 year old hanging out with them, he'd have a posse of friends. But they just aren't.

Kickball, I am more than willing to work as hard as necessary with his pre-school/day care because of that reason. They acknowledge that they haven;t had a kid like him come through, recognize that they have no experience engaging kids like him and are looking for assistance...thus the mental health services people. I think it's great that they want to learn and are willing to pony up to the table.

Kriston, you're right. he's much more comfortable engaging with adults, at school his teachers (who may technically be adults, but are in their early 20's and feel like kids to me!). And that was sort of my closing argument at the meeting yesterday. I noted that his tantrums and meltdowns appear age appropriate, he self-calms, and while he isn't interested in playing with peers, he has no trouble attaching to parents, teachers, adults and older children.

Coincidentally, his 4 year "well child" annual checkup was yesterday afternoon. His ped suggested that we see Dr. Amend now, rather than wait. so I think that's the way we'll go.

One other random thought re: making friends in general (not the pre-K)...

Have you tried matching him up with MG+ kids 1-2 years older than he is? MG kids are usually easier to find than HG+ kids because statistically speaking, there are just more of them.

We had some lasting friendships formed that way when DS8 was aged 3-5 years. He's still good friends with a boy he met in pre-K who is MG-HG and a year older, even though they haven't gone to the same school since then, they don't live in our neighborhood, etc.

The GT component helps with the intellectual peer part, and 1-2 years isn't such a wide range that kids won't play with the younger child.

Maybe irrelevant, but hopefully useful!

Good point Kriston, sounds like good advice to me.
I was wondering what they mean by 'not creating significant relationships' with other kids. If they're talking about choosing friends, from what I've read that's more of a 5+ age thing.
One quick list I found, it does mention at 4 'prefers kids to adults' for play, which I think is more the question for you, right. (And it does mention choosing friends at age 5, not age 4, or 3 for that matter, he just turned 4...)

http://www.uic.edu/classes/sped/sped506/milestones.html

Maybe part of what is going on is an unconscious aging-up of your child, based on how he talks and his knowledge, adults around him might be expecting older level social skills.

Having lived through something similar with ds7, I would say that unless you suspect your child may have some special needs (as in disability) that require intervention, I would hold off on any therapy. I would be very skeptical of any recommendations made by the folks at the pre-school or county. In my experience these well-meaning professionals are out of their league and do more harm than good with gifted kids when they start suggesting something must be wrong. Working in the field of education -specifically behavioral services, it is truly sad to see gifted kids end up in behavioral disordered classrooms and written off by teachers and administrators.
We all have different personalities and temperments. Why is it that schools rush to standardize what they deem socially appropriate in terms of peer relations? From my personal and professional experience I see a lot of over reaction. I had a guidance call me concerned ds was isolating himself on the playground, blah, blah, blah... DS was happy playing alone bc he said the other boys were too rough. After a few more calls I told ds to play with someone - please. That day he came home feeling very bad. He shared with me that he did play with the other boys but he did not like the game. The boys were playing a game of tag that involved "killing" police!!! Um, that was the last day he played that game! How did the counselor respond? "At least he was playing with the other boys." OMG! How badly I wanted to smack some sense into her.
I agree with Kriston - an older person may be a better peer match.
Just another thought - sometimes educators will beat around the bush by making statements like never having a kid like this before or needing help so they can better understand the child. Sometimes what they are really trying to do is set the stage for telling the parents they suspect something like Asperger's - which in my humble opinion is grossly misdiagnosed - especially in NJ. Definitely see Dr. Amend and then you'll have a qualified opinion.
Best of luck!

NJ Mom.....I can't thank you enough for your post. It was so helpful to read and I really agree with everything you said. I was hoping someone may have been in this situation with their own child and your experience is so helpful to hear about.

In my gut, I know there is nothing wrong, from a disability standpoint, with my son. I do think these folks are well meaning, but he is just fine.

Kriston, your suggestion about finding some MG kids to hang with is a good one. I need to put my head to how best to make that happen. I think you are right though...a little bit older and bright would be a good match for him.

Chris, I am sure you're right about the aging up thing. And yes, it's not making friends so much as choosing to play with children on the playground rather than hang out on the bench with the teacher. he's not a big outdoor kid to begin with and he'd rather sit on the bench and give his teacher story problems.

Thanks to all for the input. It helps alot.

Just to wrap this up....

I had a very nice phone conversation with Dr. Amend last night and sent over the report and all sorts of forms and information on G today. We're going to do an evaluation (including whatever sort of test a 4 yr old can take) in late September. He said that the test he intends to do with G will take about 1.5 hrs. I need to figure out which one that is.

Anyway, I let the Mental Health people know that we were going to get the 2nd opinion and hold off on the play therapy decision until that time.

Thanks for your input everyone...it means a lot to have such a great sounding board.

Either the WPPSI or the SB5, I think... Right?

Yes - sounds right Kriston.
Catherine - this group has kept me sane through some very tough times. It makes me feel good to know that I can help and that some good will come from the difficulties we've endured.
Keep us posted on Dr. Amend. Make sure you tell him what you know in your heart to be true. Let him know where you don't agree with the educators.
Good luck!