Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Recommended Resources importance of fund of knowledge in testing

I'm wondering what everyone's take is on the importance of fund of knowledge in intelligence testing. I have taken quite a few IQ tests online just for fun and looked at some kid's tests and a lot of them rely heavily on fund of knowledge. What I wonder is, is the lack of a large fund of knowledge indicative of a lower IQ? That doesn't make sense to me. If you've never been taught what the 5th moon of Jupiter is or who wasn't a general during WWII, what does that have to do with your intelligence? Or if you are more intelligent, will you seek out such information?

I guess I was thinking of all the kids who's parents don't fool with them or teach them anything other than what the schools teach. That doesn't make them less intelligent, just less informed.

Now I haven't taken a real IQ test in years and years so I don't know if the real ones rely on fund of knowledge much at all. They may not. But anyway, I thought it was an interesting thing to think about.

Did you know that Fund of Knowledge is one of my favorite topics? Thanks for bringing it up!

It is true, unfortunatly, that the bigger ones FOK is, the more easy it is to make deposites in that fund.
It is also true, for "not 2E gifted" that their difference will help them increase their FOK even in a learning-hostile environment. Golly, if one were of a mind to, one could teach oneself to read just from advertisements.

I don't really know if 2E kids are somewhat of exceptions to this idea, but I think it varies more.

Anyway, Most of the difference between folks in IQ is inborn, but some (golly, I think it's around 5 points) relates to environment. Not all of this environment is parental teaching. In fact, I believe that the parental intervention is not about teaching at all. I would describe it more as "Parents who pay attention to their child, interact with them, do more of what makes them happy, create situations the parent thinks the child would enjoy exploring, and themselves have a large FOK that they use within the child's presence, while being activly interested in increasing their own FOK.

BTW, if you are here, you can pat yourself on the back for activly increasing your own FOK. ((happy dance)) In some ways this is the worst kind of deposit to make to the FOK, because one doesn't have to just add new ideas, one also has to dig around in the sometimes blocked and painful memories AND/OR chuck out big chunks of misinformation.

What Fun!

(I'm not being sarcastic, although it's painful, It's heavenly delightful, for me at least!)

Gotta Dance!
Trinity-Sophia

Trinty....er..Sophia....uh...Wisdom.....oh I'm just confused (sorry confused didn't mean to bring you into this)....um...whoever you are... (((grins))) Thanks for your answer. I have no one else I can talk to about these things without getting that "are you totally insane" look. Yeah, you know the one! :-)

We seem to be the only ones interested in FOK. I agree completely with your statement on parental intervention and I get it that kids who are gifted will have a larger FOK because they will retain the things that they are exposed to and learn. I guess I'm wondering about the kids without that type of parental (or other)involvement. Does their giftedness just go away?? Is giftedness just potential that can sometimes never be recognized or used?? Do they become the criminal leaders and use their intelligence in harmful ways??? Really, I'm just curious.

ok you have invoked me again
I am just relieved to find out what FOK was. I was really worried in another strand.
I thought it was a meet the fokkers reference or something.

Fund of knowledge and "Whose" fund it comes from has been huge in criticism of testing in general.
I remember taking a test on street smarts or something in college to show us how bias can occur in test design.

Most IQ testing fund of knowledge was biased toward what relatively wealthy old white men thought educated people should know in 1950.

Being able to develop a fund of knowlege, i think correlates with overall intellegence. However the tests to measure it will be necessarily be biased in who decides what should be in a fund of knowledge.
If you always get the questions right in the entertainment or sports parts of Trivial Pursuit is that better or worse than the one who gets all the science or history questions.....?....

I think if you have a large fund of knowledge in any area or in general it speaks well for being able to continue to aquire and organize information. however i think being able to link things in a fund of knowledge takes more creativity and is a different type of intellegence. Being able to link facts and then draw new conclusions based on this linkage is different still and in my experience is the rarest ability.

I don't know of any tests to measure these kind of things, but then i'm confused after all

Trin is there any thing that does this?

I've been wondering about all these things past few months actually especially what Confused said about being able to link things in a fund of knowledge. My DS3 is constantly doing it, and my sister in law commented on how amazing it was. (I'm always so unsure because he is my first, what is and isn't the norm)
I have a handful of examples, but I'll just give two.


1. We were at my husbands parents house and Grandpa was giving my DS22mo a ride on his riding lawn mower. He mowed around and around a large tree, his circles of course getting bigger and bigger (there were also lots of leaves). Anyhow my son was really watching the ground then after a while he said "It looks like he's making a galaxy, thats silly!", then he laughed. It took me a little while to figure out what he ment. I went online to look at a picture of a galaxy, and the design on the ground looked very much like a galaxy! (here's a pic of one if it helps with the visual, as it did for me: http://www.news.wisc.edu/newsphotos/images/Milky_Way_galaxy_sun05.jpg

2. This next one happened about a month or two, after he had watched The Cronicles of Narnia, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. And he only watched it one time.
He was coloring (playing with crayons anyway) and said,
"The cronicles of Narnia, is like my Diego movie"
Me: "It is? I don't know about that. You remember The Cronicles of Narnia?" (I was surprised he also remembered the name of the movie)
(He had watched "Deigo's Safari Rescue", the week before)

DS3: "Yes, That bad witch turned that wolf into a statue, and all those other guys, with her magic wand (in "the chronicles of Narnia"). On Diego, that Wizard turns all those elephants into statues too, and she uses a magic wand too."
Me: (thinking a second) OH wow, you're right thats true, I never thought of that.
(Maybe that seems obviously related, the way he spoke of the two movies, but if you've watched, that Deigo Movie, The Chronicles of Narnia will be that farthest movie from your mind. )

I don't know when he does it but he constantly is relating things that I would think are unrelated. And will bring up something he saw or that happened so long ago, and start talking to me about it and figuring it out out loud. Maybe I'm just slow, but his mind has to be constantly contemplating.

so I'm with Confused, asking Trinity, is there anything that can, measure that kind of intelligence...?

Ok - the book to read if you are interested in "What is IQ" "Is it biased" "Is it real" is - IMHO - IQ and Human Intelligence (Paperback)by N. J. Mackintosh.
I only got to read about 3/4 before it was due at the library, but I really really learned quite a bit and got all excited.

Personally, when looking at a child to figure out what grade they should be in - I see three catagories to evaluate a child in-
FOK
Skills (multiplication tables, handwriting, reading level)
and
reasoning ability

My idea is that if one can look at the child compared to their gradelevels in these three areas, that one will get a good picture of where they belong.

The WISC subtest "comprehension" seems to be my SD's key strength. I would guess that that has to do with his FOK and his ability to piece things together like Jenafur's son. My DS used to tease me that I should change my name to "I never thought of it like that before" since that was what I always said whenever he said anything as a young boy.

Mel Levine also talks about "Cognative Activation" as a specturm. Too little and the bits of info never gell into knowledge, let alone new ideas. Just right and new ideas flow, and old ones are easier to remember. Too much, and well, you get ME - sort of ADD/ADHDish looking from the outside, with daydreaming (my childhood name) or wild bursts of connections that others don't find useful and rewarding. Thanks SO much for being the kind of other who DO find my new ideas useful.

Also - look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxonomy_of_Educational_Objectives
Bloom's Taxonomy. Print out a copy for your fridge. It's wonderful.

EandCmom -
I refer to giftedness as an educational special need. If that need is not filled I have seen plenty of people who grow up confused, and plenty of kids who act out or act in. Does this difference "go away." I tend to doubt it. How many of the "potheads" from my high school were out there killing brain cells as fast as they could to try and fit in and feel connected and be accepted? Certianly some. I know a few who "managed" their differnces and their OverExcitabilities that way. I used Dating for similar. At least I didn't loose brain cells. We do what we can, yes? How did you manage? Post it over on the Baggage Topic.

Smiles,
Trinity

Let's just go back to FOK for a second. That just sounds a little naughty..........anyhooo

My daughters both had their lower scores in VCI comprehension and information and the other in information in the verbal IQ subtest, does that have to do with FOK?

Also, respectively their perceptional reasoning index and performance IQ scores were their strong suits. Does this indicate anything in particular?

Does anyone know if this means anything specific?

I don't understand the relevance of each categories scoring at all.

Thanks a bunch,

Incog

Ya'll have brought a tear to my eye with all the wonderful, thought provoking responses! :-)

confused stated - "Fund of knowledge and "Whose" fund it comes from has been huge in criticism of testing in general.
I remember taking a test on street smarts or something in college to show us how bias can occur in test design."

This is exactly what I am thinking about. It definitely depends on "whose" fund a test has come from but that doesn't make that person any less/more intelligent if their fund isn't the same. I agree that linking what you know with other things is more of a sign of higher intellect.

I was watching a TV show the other night about a brilliant scientist and she said something and one of the other characters said in a facetious manner,"I didn't just hear that" and instead of the scientist getting what the other character meant, she repeated her sentence very slowly and very loudly so that the other character could "hear" her. Her FOK was not even what the average person's is in that instance but that didn't reduce her brilliance.

kcab - I know people just like the guy you are talking about. Brilliant but not using it in a positive manner. I also know many "street" smart people who I also think are very intelligent but just never had the opportunities in life that made education important for them. I guess maybe their intelligence is just diverted into other areas rather than academics for them.

Trinity, I will definitely have to look at your references - thanks! Now off to look for "Baggage". I gave a cursory look around and didn't see it but I will try again. :-)

I've got a FOK related post from the early days on "Excellence in Education"
Let me know what you'all think, ok?
Trin

I have nothing relevant to add, but I'm devouring this thread! Very interesting!

I just wanted to share a funny story about my DS. I printed off the EXPLORE sample tests and he was doing the math one. To be honest I wasn't sure he'd understand some of the math but he did one on probability with no problem. I didn't even know he knew about probability and so I asked him how he knew how to answer the question. He said "oh they do probability on Cyberchase!" LOL!!!! I guess you can increase your FOK anywhere!!!! :-)