Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment need help with scores

I have a boy who was tested for the gifted program a couple weeks ago (he has now turned 9). He was also tested in Oct. 2007 after teachers kept telling me he was ADD or ADHD. The first test was not very accurate as my son kept talking about Harry Potter and was not interested in being tested.
The second test May, 2009 was way different. He asked me to have the test redone, and asked me if the first test was timed. I told him it was, and he wanted to be retested.

Here are his scores...
Oct 2007 (first numbers) May 2009 (second numbers)

VCI 116 88%, 130 98%
similarities: 13 84%, 17 99%
vocab: 14 91%, 16 98%
comprehension: 12 75%, 12 75%
information: 11 63%
word reasoning: 14 91%

PRI 112 79%, 115 84%
block design: 14 91%, 12 75%
Picture concepts: 12 75%, 10 50%
matrix reasoning: 10 50%
picture completion: 12 75%, 12 75%

WMI 97 42%, 129 97%
digit span: 7 16%, 14 91%
letter-number sequencing: 12 75%
arithmetic 10 50%, 15 95%

PSI 94 34%, 88 21%
coding: 8 25%, 6 9%
symbol search: 10 50%, 10 50%
cancellation: 5 5% (told me he didn't want to do this)

WIAT II SCORES
Oct 2007

READING 99%
word reading: 96%
reading comprehension: 93%
psudeoword decoding: 95%

MATHEMATICS 63%
numeric operations: 43%
math reasoning: 81%

ORAL LANGUAGE 99%
listening comprehension: 99%
oral expression 91%

WRITTEN LANGUAGE 95%
spelling: >99%
written expression 58%

ISAT SCORES IN 2007 fall to spring
math went from 93% to 98%
reading went from 98% to 99%
language went from 91 % to 99%

ISAT SCORES FOR 2009 fall to spring
math 98 both fall and spring
reading went from 97 to 99
language 99 both fall and spring

Some facts about my son...
could mimick 'hi' back to me at one month old, talked in sentences at 5 months old, took toys apart at 5 months. (tried to remove hinges from the door at 15 months when he couldn't reach the lock) etc. VERY BRIGHT. (I still don't think the test scores are an accurate portrayal of his ablility. The second test was done in a tiny room in a hallway pod with 5 classrooms with kids getting ready for the last days of school. The door was open for most of the test, and the kids and teachers were yelling up and down the hallway. He even tested through 7 minutes of announcements. It was so loud I couldn't even read outside the door to his test room).

I need help deciphering his scores. I think he could test even higher than he did on FSIQ but from the looks of it he has a processing speed issue. ADD/ADHD was ruled out twice noting that he (second test) tests better than 97% of kids his age in concentration, attention and exertion of mental control.
He has lazy eye and taught himself to read at three when he could not see past the midline, (we had not taught him the alphabet). He was using one eye at a time. He then went to vision therapy where they taught him to use both eyes, and the words moved around. He had to 'relearn' to read. He had surgery at 2 years old and again December 2007. His eye is now again turning in. He says he sees fine, and he has perfect vision but with his processing speed coming back so low, I wonder if he is having trouble in school due to his eyes. His grades are great to average depending on the subject. He always avoids math and writing assignments - they are painstaking, but is fantastic at both. He does not like clothes that itch, has had great dislike of buttons in the past, but getting better).

Any suggestions?? If it is a vision related problem, how does he read at 9-10th grade level?? I can't figure out what the issue is...any help would be great.
Thanks.

Looking at the 07/09 score differences, it seems his interest plays a BIG role in test results and probably school results too. The lower score on coding seems to tie into what you've observed with him avoiding math and writing assignments.


Maybe you can find ways to increase his interest in those things like writing and math by removing the barriers that may be turning him off. For example, using dictation for writing to get around the motor skill.

Will the new scores be enough to get him in the gifted program? If so, that may help with the interest piece. Otherwise you may want to have him test in a better environment with someone who's experienced with gifted children. Good luck!

It did get him into the gifted program. He has asked for harder work in the past, and in kindergarten, first and second grade, even though the teachers told me he could pass the NEXT grade easily (such as pass third grade while in second), they also wanted me to hold him back a year. I told them no way. He was testing 98,99,99 on their ISATS and 100% on curriculum based material and 100% on the IRI. They told me he needed to 'put out or shut up'. I didn't feel he could 'put out' anymore than what he showed on their own testing. They refused to give him harder work and made him repeat math packets over and over - some with the exact pages. He avoids written math like the plague. Mental math is phenomenal. However, this is a boy that loves American history and taught himself all the states and capitals in first grade by studying the globe - tricking teachers with the question, 'How do you pronounce the capital of Kentucky, Louisville or Louisville (lewyville or lewisville)? When they chose, he would say 'actually, neither, it is frankfurt. LOL

I just can't figure out if he doesn't do well in school, because of variable effort/no interest in certain subjects/boredom, or if he has a LD, so he avoids certain subjects.

Any help would be great...

lilglik,

I don't know if you can really be sure at 9 yrs old if his lack of output is lack of interest or an LD. I am sure that asking someone (especially at 9)to repeat math pages is not teaching, it is punishment. I'm not sure that I would do the pages again and I have great writing skills and a very mature brain!

My DS11 had some similar behavour patterns to yours; good mental math, avoiding written math, great reading skills, loves history, very low coding score on test taken when he was 9. At that time he was diagnosed with dysgraphia, which was confusing to me because he can write well when he "chooses" to.

Now two years later I realize that this "choice" involves choosing to do something very difficult for him - and the amount of mental energy that has to go into the writing makes it difficult for him to stay with the thoughts he wants to write down. Some of the best discriptions of what dysgraphia is like, especially related to giftedness, I have found in materials put out by the Eide Clinic. Their book also has a section on dysgraphia.

So, I guess I'm saying I would watch for that, but it sounds like what he's up against right now could be environmental (some might say developmental though I think the environment should be made to match the development of a 9 year old). My son is rather immature for his age and I know sometimes at 8-10 years old the teachers expected his maturity to match his cognitive skills and when it didn't, they got irritable.

You boy sounds great! My suggestion is enjoy his fun sense of humor and get him to a place where learning is interesting and fun. Then see what he does.

All the best!

Benny

Thank you for the resource. I will look into that avenue. He says although he is slow at it, that he likes typing better than writing.
As for the math packets, they were done with the book 3-4 weeks before the end of school, he took their ISATS and CBM etc and scored at the top, 100 on CBM, but were made to do math packets to occupy their time. I found out 3 weeks of math had been done in the packet, before they notified me in the last week of school that he wouldn't go to field day because he had only done one problem on the first of four packets - each with 12 pages.
I took all four packets home that day and he finished them - all 48 pages, so he could go to field day. The teacher promptly gave him another packet, to which I told him not to bother doing. The first four had repeat pages in the packets and were all review. I think it was a punishment.
I am not sure if his 'math' issue is do to these stupid packets and now he hates them/math, or if it is the writing on them that bothers him so much. He tells me he loves math and he scored a 98% in arithmethic on his IQ test. Can't tell if it is an eye thing or defiance. I don't blame him if it is either one. I just don't think they get him. I have since pulled him from the school and he is entering the gifted program.

Lol! Thank you for that!! We have had some similar discouraging 'lessons' from teachers in math, but nothing so over-the-top. It was always strange to see our ds just wilt at the sight of these math work sheets, and even worse for timed arithmetic facts. Every 5th one he would just whiz through, but generally he just couldn't/wouldn't do them. The image of your son churning through 48 pages is brilliant (and the teacher who said 'put up or shut up' to an 8 or 9 year old? Completely ridiculous. Glad to hear he is moving on although it is a shame that teacher is left to mess with someone new.

I would just like to comment that very smart kids might not demonstrate a vision issue in reading level. My son's reading level is about a grade or two over his age but he reads very slowly. As his eyes improve, it's not so much his reading level as his reading speed that's improving. Isn't that weird?

Also, I have similar vision issues (letters jump up and down) and I read at the college level. I have a technique where I use my finger and I also open my eyes wide and then, scrunch them down to refresh them. It's just my little secret.

I think one way that you can tell if his vision is still a problem is sort of spying on him. Look for squinting, funny blinking, head cocked in a funny direction when he begins reading. Also, another clue is sudden tiredness after reading a bit.

I'm no expert, by the way. This is all based on personal experience.

Just a quick update...
I took my son to a vision therapist. He did 2 hours of testing. There is a problem with his vision. He is reading at a speed of 13th grade level, however his brain is turning on and off each eye rapidly. He is rarely able to use both eyes at the same time although he has perfect vision. When his brain changes eyes, it leaves gaps between letters in his writing, he misses words when copying things, and also when reading. I will get the full report on the 22nd, but it looks like his low processing speed is due in great deal to his eye problems. They gave him a test which had him see with his right eye the number 4 in line over a vertical dash, and his left eye saw a horizontal dash in line over a 2. If you see with both eyes it would look like 4 + 2 (vertically). However, he saw them separately and could not put the different dashes together to make a plus sign. Could be why he hates math worksheets, but is phenomenal in math as long as it is mental math. Things don't look like they should...maybe it is a minus sign, maybe it is a plus sign...columns don't line up.
Just thought I would update you in case anyone else has similar problems/test scores, with a child who has had strabismus/amblyopia issues.

hi lilglik, i am wondering what the name of the condition you describe is so i can google and find out more. My son has a very similar profile (got a 4 on coding).. he also reads really well so never really considered vision as an issue however this thread is changing my thinking a bit.

Lilglik - I'm glad you got some answers!