Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Is this a 2E profile?

I hope you can all help me! This is my 10 year old daughter, in 5th grade. I finally got the school to test her and may have the opportunity to ask for accommodations or entry into gifted program (with accommodations?) but need advice!

Her performance is very uneven on school tests...from gettin 100 to sometimes a score in the 70s. She misses details and sometimes has trouble understand certain math concepts, depending on the way they are explained. She is very verbal and an excellent writer.

WISC IV scores:

Verbal Comprehension 134
Similarities 14
Vocabulary 15
Comprehension 18

Perceptual Reasoning 104
Block Design 11
Picture Concepts 7
Matrix Reasoning 14

Working Memory 135
Digit Span 19
Letter-Number Sequencing 13

Processing Speed 106
Coding 12
Symbol Search 10

Full Scale IQ 125 (but noted that too much scatter to really measure)

Other notes:

1. She is excellent socially. NLD/Aspergers not indicated.

2. She performs "average" in district-wide math testing, but in the 99th
percentile on all subtests given (including numerical operations and mathematics reasoning) on the WIAT. However, her verbal and non-verbal OLSAT scores were 118 and 114 respectively, which is why she did not make it into the gifted program.

3. She is observed to frustrate easily when not getting a concept right
away (such as in math). Also, she often misses details during tests, and sometimes doesn't hear when assignments are given.

4. The Conners Continuous Performance Test was given. There was a
91.64% change that no significant, clinical attention problem exists. However,
of the 12 overall measures, four placed in the mildly atypical range, suggesting
impulsivity and inattentiveness. It was also noted that response style was
different from a typical respondent in the norm group in that the child
reponded more often. REaction time was fast, but performance was below-
average in the area of discriminating targets from one another, which
(according to the tester) suggests impulsivity. Her performance overall was
described as "fast and inaccurate".

Can anyone help me figure out where to go from here?

Thank you!!

Hi Eden,
I can't answer your question but this information may help.

This link says a 20 point VCI-PRI discrepancy should raise some red flags.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Eg...i=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

Has she had her eyes checked recently?

Good point eema. The PRI scatter is unusually large (7 point difference between Matrix Reasoning and Picture Concepts). If the difference is greater than 5 points, it cannot be interpreted as a single ability.

P.S. An out of the box gifted child? See last page 2E WISC IV Patterns and Behaviors.

http://www.sciencedestinations.org/images/2009symposium-Maxwell.pdf

Thank you very much. Now...what can I do to help my child? The school is saying she is just fine. They don't think the scatter is a problem because everything is at least average!

The high WIAT scores would also support their assertion that there's no problem. I'd probably advocate for entry into the gifted program using this NAGC position statement.

http://www.nagc.org/index.aspx?id=2455
Even though she doesn't have NLD, maybe some of the visual spatial modifications would help:
Rely heavily on the student's verbal and analytic strengths
Model verbal mediation of nonverbal information while teaching the learner how to use this strength
Simple layouts on assignments/test
Use graph paper to organize work
Check for understanding
Make directions/expectations clear and simple
Verbally teach (talk self through tasks)

Hi Eden,
I have an 11yr old in a 5th grade GT program with a HUGE gap in the VCI and PRI scores (45 points). (Coding score of 5!, check out the thread on low processing speed on this forum.) He tested into the program in 2nd grade based on CoGAT and Peabody tests, which I realize was fortunate because his overall score when we tested in 3rd grade was also about 125 and the program requires 130 if entrance is based on IQ scores. He ABSOLUTELY belongs in the GT program. I think he would have completey shut down and given up at school if he were still in the regular classroom.

Did you receive any written comments from the tester that would help you to explain the situation to the schools? Our commentary included the fact that the overall score is not reliable, and discussed the frustration involved in living with a brain that has such a large discrepancy in scores.

Our DS11 also can exhibit very uneven performance in testing, which is very frustrating for teachers because they interpret this as not trying. He has been diagnosed as having the inattentive type of ADHD, (which can vary from day to day and influence all kinds of scores) but I think his bigger challenges are the in the wide gap between the scores.

The modifications suggested by inky are excellent. I would add modifying the amount of written output, or allowing work to be dictated if her writing speed is frustrating her at all.

Keep us posted!

Thank you so much!

Here's my next question. Right now, for sixth grade, she has been placed in a "one level accelerated" math program but not in pre-algebra, which is the two level accelerated program that frankly, all the kids headed for the "big leagues" are in. I am wondering if we should push for her to be in pre-alegbra. On the one hand, I don't want to frustrate her, but on the other hand, the basic maths (everything up to pre-algebra) are taught using the Chicago Math (Everyday Math) program which is a terrible method of teaching for her and I'd just like to get her out of there. Her WIAT scores would indicate her math skills are strong, but her performance on math tests in school has been uneven, and then there is the PRI score. However, if she doesn't have pre-alebra next year, she is on track to have it the following year anyway, and her issues will always be her issues.

I'm wondering if "pre-algebra with accomodations" is what is appropriate, but if so, what would those accomodations be?

Thank you again!!

I'd probably ask for the pre-algebra with accommodations and work to ensure math fluency this summer on the places she's been uneven.
Some things to consider are:
Will you be able to help her with more thorough explanations after school if she needs it?
Do you think the teacher will be a good fit?
She'll have geometry sooner but I'm inclined to think strong verbal skills will help her enough.
She may like the Khan Academy videos on youtube since there is lots of verbal explanation of the math.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=khanacademy&view=playlists

Reading this(and understanding she doesn't have Aspergers or NLD), one accommodation could be to present problems verbally.
http://books.google.com/books?id=6t...i=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5

Thank you inky! It's probably hard to get a teacher to understand what "use verbal explanations" means when it comes to math.

I was going to suggest, as Benny did, to check into ADD as well. In girls, you won't always get the hyperactive body, but the mind tends to scatter. Not paying attention to details (taking a test before reading the directions), being easily frustrated and not hearing can also be a sign... if her hearing has been recently checked, and it's fine, she may be "tuning out" things due to daydreaming or having that "scattered" brain.