Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Aspbergers = High Functioning Autism?

A friend asked me a question recently to which I didn't know the answer. Is Aspbergers the name for the high functioning end of Autism Spectrum Disorders, or is it a different thing altogether?

She has a very gifted son that she has concerns about, but while he doesn't seem to fit the Aspberger's profile, he does seem to have some autistic tendencies. He's extrememly introverted, is very anxious in social situations, is not big on physical contact, hates changes to his routine. He can however carry appropriate conversations, understand jokes, make eye contact, and has some friends. He just really seems to prefer to avoid social interactions, unless they are one-on-one and he knows the person well.

Does autism/Aspbergers mean the inability to follow social conventions, or the lack of desire to do so?

If anyone has any links to good sites that I could point her toward it would also be much appreciated. She's not the type to surf the net looking for answers, and I don'tknow enough about this subject to help much.

The 'bible' of 'very gifted' + spectrum disorders is Dee Lovecky's Different Mindswhich I own, but have only skimmer.

Misdiagnosis And Dual Diagnoses Of Gifted Children And Adults: ADHD, Bipolar, OCD, Asperger's, Depression, And Other Disorders by James T. Webb, Edward R. Amend, Nadia E. Webb, Jean Goerss, Paul Beljan, F. Richard Olenchak, and Sharon Lind
Physicians, psychologist, and counselors are unaware of characteristics of gifted children and adults that mimic pathological diagnoses. Six nationally prominent health care professionals describe ways parents and professionals can distinguish between gifted behaviors and pathological behaviors...

This book is much more readible, but alas, too short!

Those two should get her started in the right direction.
Grinity

this is a very brief explanation, but a good start:

Autism Spectrum Disorder a.k.a. Pervasive Development Disorder "PDD" includes the following
1)aspbergers syndrome
2)Retts syndrome (rare)
3)Childhood Disintegrative Disorder (rare)
4)autism (must have six pervasive symptoms over social, language, and behavior domains)
5)PDD-NOS- which means Pervasive Developmental Disorder Not Otherwise Specificied.. so the child doesn't meet the diagnositic criteria, which are very specific, for the other four categories, but has atypical aspects of social, language, and behavior.

High Functioning Autism is an informal term and usually means the kids who do not meet the aspergers criteria (which you can find easily on the web) but are on the autism spectrum. Many officially have the "PDD-NOS" label. They differ from aspbergers in one major way and that is "aspies" must have extremely strong VERBAL abilities relative to other areas, while kids with HFA do not.

THen there is the gifted part in the mix and that is addressed in teh books Grinity recommends.

irene

I have a highly gifted son who has friends,regular speech patterns. He has trouble with low frustration tolerance ( average processing speed + highly gifted) and often will try to mask his true emotions with anger. He'd rather not be seen crying and feels anger is the solution.He is also very much of a perfectionist and will often refuse to try things than risk failure.

We have found that Dr.s and others have very little knowledge of the intensities and characteristics of the highly gifted. Read Dobrowski's theory of intensities of the highly gifted.

A child who is highly gifted and has social skills issues is not Aspergers. Read the Misdiagnosis book... a real eye opener. A child who maintains friends, gets invited to multiple parties,and is very concerned with what others may think of him is not Aspergers.

It seems there has not been much research into kids who are above regular gifted and more in the genius to profoundly gifted range. The more gifted the more intense the characteristics. These kids need understanding not labels.

my own father was profoundly gifted and i have a son who was diagnosed PDD-NOS and we suspect now may also be proufoundly gifted. While some have said to me, after i describe my father, that he may have been aspbergers..it just doesn't fit. Though he had pooor social skills and some other qualities that were eceentric.. he was not disabled.. had friends and interests..functioned within the world..etc. I think there is a "fine line" but in the end its whether a person can be independent and functioning to a level that makes them happy with themselves - as my father definitely was very ok with himself- that ultimately distingusihes a person as either having a spectrum disability or simply the quirks of personality that may go with being profoundly gifted. Kind of like when you try to figure out if you have the blues or if you're clinically despressed- how much is it interfering with your life? can you function? etc..
irene

Drawing the lines/getting an accurate diagnosis or finding there is no diagnosis is important, but the bottom line, to me, is getting the right help for a child. My ds8 does not fit any of the definitions of aspergers, high functioning autistic, etc., however definitely has social skills deficits - stuff he just doesn't know how to do, and also some social anxiety (mostly from having failed to do things right in previous social situations). Some of these skills can be learned, through social skills groups with other kids, one-on-one counseling, and other methods, so we are looking at the options right now.

The dual diagnosis/misdiagnosis book Grinity recommends is a very helpful read. I have not looked at the other book.

CFK-
i have a question. Does your son have any processing speed issues (like low coding score on WISC?). One of the theories floating around with my son is that his very slow processing speed, combined with giftedness, looked a heck of a lot like HFA or aspbergers. He has a really hard time getting a social situation going, but then is fine once friendships are established. We think his processing is impacting those initial, more difficult, interactions. We are also looking at his auditory processing as his visual/spatial is really incredibly good. So just curious if this might be an issue wiht your DS.

I am so sorry to add to the list of alternate diagnosis but to me, it sounds like SPD (sensory processing disorder). My son was diagnosed ADHD but I felt it was wrong. A couple of people told me he seemed high functioning autism although he sounded just like the child you describe: good eye contact, gets jokes, makes friends. He just sort of gets hyper-shy around people the first time and it results in some odd behavior. Plus, he has sensory issues: loud noises, dislikes hugs, etc. Some doctors believe that SPD is on the autism spectrum so for me, it really has been the missing link. Hope that helps!

I haven't read the Dual Diagnosis although if they're recommending it, it's probably a very good resource. If you can't find it in the store for some reason, I like The Mislabeled Child by the Eides. That's what led me to SPD.

"Perhaps the most pronounced feature to distinguish a gifted AS student is his or her remarkable lack of insight and awareness regarding the feelings, needs, and interests of other people. An AS child will talk interminably about a favorite topic, unaware that the listener might not be interested, needs to leave, is bored, or wants to say something. AS children will also interrupt private conversations and enter or leave abruptly without concern for the wishes or needs of others. They seem oblivious to the simplest rules of social conduct, and repeated efforts to instruct them or remind them do not change these behaviors. A pronounced lack of social awareness is not a common characteristic of ordinary gifted children."

I have been reading all of the suggested material given by the great people on this site since my DS4 has not been given any diagnosis label (the doctors (child neuro and psych) didn't give him a label because there wasn't enough stuff matching one), but has some mild symptoms, plus being gifted. The boy just may be mild "whatever." Since I was given no diagnosis, but seem to have a feeling for areas of my DS4's weaknesses; I have just gotten help for those areas (speech and mild social). I recently learned that there are "social skills" classes available. Speech teachers usually offer the social skills classes. They focus on confidence, sharing, taking turns, initiating play, what to do when someone you ask to play says no, alternatives to playtime scenarios. We are aggressively working on his speech areas as well, to see if this is the cause for part of the social stuff as well. My DS4 is very social but has problems in huge groups. He also is very strong-willed, prefers to lead, and tends to suck kids into his "fun.":)

I recommend the mis/dual-diagnosis book as well.