Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Recommended Resources What language would you take?

PS As hip points out, she'd need to decide which dialect she wants to learn (Homeric, Attic, Koine, or modern); there are more Attic resources out there than probably anything else, so that's a consideration (some of the main still-in-print ones are the one by the Joint Association of Classical Teachers, Mastronarde, Groton, Luschnig, Shelmerdine, Saffire & Freis, and Balme & Lawall's Athenaze--and of course there are dozens and dozens of free nineteenth-century books designed primarily for British schoolboys!).

Koine has also a lot of books available (and some are aimed at younger learners: Elementary Greek, Greek for Children, Hey, Andrew, Teach Me Some Greek!, etc.--I saw a really neat one lately called Polis [ http://poliskoine.com/site/ ]--it's sort of "immersion" Koine--you'd need to know French, too, though, as that is the language of the explanations in the book).

I love Homer, too, so that's where we started, even though there aren't as many choices for learning materials--apart from the Pharr book, there is a book by Frank Beetham, which concentrates on the Odyssey (Book V, I think), and Schoder and Horrigan's two-volume Reading Course in Homeric Greek (which is the one my eldest and I have been working through--it's also centered on the Odyssey). Beetham and S&H are still in print (and therefore not free). Some Attic textbooks (e.g. JACT's Reading Greek course) also have a chapter or two about learning to read Homeric Greek after having learned Attic.

Hope that helps a little!

PPS There are good reviews of most of the in-print books at the Bryn Mawr Classical Review website, so you can get a bit of a feel for what each one is like.

I found a few copies, two of them fairly inexpensive, of a book on Homeric Greek that's user-friendly for beginners:

http://www.amazon.com/Akroama-Euripides-Homer-Two-Greek-poets/dp/0884080625

It has Euripides' play 'Medea' and books 9 and 10 of the Odyssey (the Kyklopes, Kirke etc.) in large print, with line-by-line vocab on the facing page. I recommend it highly -- I found it very easy to use in high school. You'd need some grammar under your belt first, of course; I used Crosby & Schaeffer.

WOW-- thank you so much!

This is terrific. Exactly what I was looking for. She's at least excited about the Mango program, and it suits her learning style pretty much perfectly (she's an auditory/vocal + visual learner)... but assuming that she retains the interest for a few weeks (you know, once it requires actual effort) I'm going to need additional resources for her. The Iliad as a learning tool-- genius.


A friend of mine (fluent in several Greek dialects) already said some of the very same things (as posts above do) to me about dialect and such. She also has an EG child just a bit older than my own who has been learning Greek off and on. She did say that she thought self-study might be pretty tough in Hellenic Greek given my complete and total lack of background. On the other hand, I can 'read' Greek phonetically just fine. (Thank you, Science and Mathematics... I know what rho looks like and I know what it says. LOL)

Just a quick note, HK--

The greekstudy list ( http://www.quasillum.com/study/greekstudy.php ) is just about to start a new beginners' group, using the Beetham text, so if she wants to have a go at Odyssey V with a keen group of people (and lots of well-informed help), now's the time!!

mm

Howler,

I have Rosetta Stone for Greek. It includes reading, writing and speech. It's the homeschool version. If your DD gets serious, let me know. We'll see if we can work something out.

DS really enjoyed it, but has moved over to chinese because it is offered at his school. He wants me to buy RS Chinese for the summer so that he doesn't loose anything during the break.

This is really a loaded question and so hard to answer. I guess instead I'd ask you these questions:

- In your area what languages are you most likely to find native speakers of so your child can meet with them directly and practice?

- Do you want your child to learn business languages (Mandarin, Japanese, German, or Portuguese)? a language that is thought of to be "pretty" like French or Italian? a language that is usefully locally (possible Spanish if you live in certain parts of the US)? or something that will help them build on other languages (like Latin or Greek)?

- What are your child's interests? If he/she likes science than German is probably the language I'd suggest. However, if he or she is more interested in arts/literature it could French/Italian/Spanish etc.

Obviously, you also need a tutor/language course instructor that works well with your kid and speaks the language well (I'm not a fan of teachers who are not native speakers, for instance...). I'd also really check with the instructors ahead of time. I visited my little sister's Spanish class one day and even though it was Spanish 3 the teacher spent most of her time explain the grammar to the kids in English. I'm someone who thinks all languages class (yes, even from day 1) should be in that respective language. I've been through classes like that and ones that weren't and you can't even compare the difference when it comes to learning the language.

Good luck with your choices! FWIW, we're a bilingual household and I'm debating teaching DD my third language but have put it on hold for the moment. It's a tricky road to navigate but I'm hoping she'll appreciate knowing at least one other language some day.

newmom, you're right-- those are really insightful and meaningful questions, and your advice is very good as well. If I were the one driving this bus... I'd have her do German as a first foreign language... because I have a reasonable background in German (well, Dutch, actually, but I have formal instruction and actual usage of German as well).

Failing that, my own inclination is that the following things are true of the options available locally:

German-- easy to continue since it's common enough in foreign language programs, there is enough crossover with Anglo-Saxon languages that it's reasonably easy for English speakers to start with, we have a neighbor who is fluent (and already a friend of my DD's), and I can help.

Latin-- LOTS of resources and lots of people who've taken enough of it (my DH included) that she'd have plenty of help, it is a "foundational" foreign language that unlocks French, Spanish, Italian, and Portugese. She might later find this most useful since her interests are in jurisprudence, and therefore a passing familiarity with Latin is useful to say the least.

Spanish-- lots of opportunity to practice in the real world, as we live in a very diverse community whose primary second language is Spanish. Both parents would be interested in side-by-side learning there.

Czech-- the neighbor who is fluent in German is a native Czech speaker.

French-- I can (bumblingly) fight my way through most French up to about 8th-10th grade reading level. Speaking is another matter, but at least I have passing familiarity with grammar and verb conjugations, gender of nouns, etc. Years of high school French and I can open a conversation with "Comment �a va?" Too bad all I can do after that is pick up about every third word and look puzzled. LOL.


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Those are MY preferences. However, with an 11yo strong-willed EG/PG child, much of that becomes irrelevant. SHE wants to learn Greek so that she can READ in Greek.

Okay, so bottom line is that this is why I studied German in college-- it was pragmatic given my major. It has actually come in quite handy over the years since there is still literature that is published en Deutsch and NOT in English, too. Being able to accurately translate a materials and methods section, as well as figure legends in conclusions sections has turned out to be quite a boon.

So I have to respect that my daughter's reasons might well be fine for her. Greek and Latin are probably never wasted time no matter who you are or what you plan to do with yourself.

The other factor that I'm taking into consideration here is that this is a way of granting autonomy that my daughter is really craving educationally. In other words, my suggestions have to be just that-- suggestions. If I make them 'commands' or even 'coercive' seeming to her, she will lose all interest in a hurry. It can't be MY agenda, in other words, but she's also sensitive to criticism of her ideas. So if her dad and I logically point out why what she wants to do here is fatally flawed or a waste of her time, she may well back off-- but that doesn't mean that she'll take direction from us. She'll just give it up entirely. I'd rather that she did something her way than nothing at all.

We also have some real limitations financially, so "hiring" a tutor isn't really an option, unless she's willing to give up something ELSE to pay for it, or unless we can get a college student to do it for almost nothing.


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Is the RS program Koine? Or another dialect?

At this point, I really don't know how intense DD's interest is likely to remain. She can blow hot and cold with things, so it's possible that she may decide that Greek is not her thing if she isn't making as much progress as rapidly enough as she'd like.

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MM, thanks for the tip on the new study group starting. Is this listed on the website somewhere, or only via listserv? Ie- how would she sign up? (Sorry if that is self-evident, but it didn't seem obvious to me with a cursory look over there.)

Hi, HK,

Sorry I wasn't clear--you do indeed have to subscribe to the list; here's their subscription page:

http://nxport.com/mailman/listinfo/greekstudy

Hope that helps!

peace
minnie

HowlerKarmer

My apologies! I didn't realized you had bumped this thread and asked a new questions so I was actually responding to the original post for elementary kids.

For your 11 year old I'd definitely try and pursue her interests! There's a pretty big difference between a mom who wants to introduce a foreign language to a young child that might not have a preference and a child pushing for a specific foreign language. Sorry for the confusion and it serves me right for not reading the other comments first!

I definitely agree with what others have said, though, about the difference between modern and classic Greek. I actually had a good friend who was Greek and while she could read and understand both, classic Greek was practically a second language to her.

FWIW, I did the same as your daughter. My stepdad warned me not to take Latin in high school because I wouldn't have any opportunities to speak it and it's no longer used. Well, I took it and even though it was fun for a bit I quickly lost interest due to lack of opportunities to speak it. Ditto when I took Chinese in high school too. I ended up taking German in college and that was great because I could study abroad and picked it up very quickly from there. DH's native language also came relatively quickly for me simply due to motivation and living with a native speaker who is great at explaining how to pronounce words correctly (not so great at explain the grammar, though, so you can just imagine how funny I sound when I speak!).

Anyways, good luck to your daughter. I'd say, follow her interest but also keep some other options open in case she does decide it's not worth her effort and wants a language that is more easily accessible (she might actually have an easier time learning Greek if she focuses now on a language that is easier to learn and that pursues Greek in college where there will be more resources and she'll around know how to learn a foreign language)