Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Why does this have to be so difficult? (vent)

My 5-1/2 year old daughter is in first grade and already I am tired of dealing with the school system!

She missed the age cutoff for K (Dec 1 in our state) by five weeks, so last year we did early entry by putting her in a private Christian school in all-day K. It was too easy but better than nothing, and socially it was good for her. All year she said it was too easy but she still enjoyed many aspects of school and wanted to go. Financially it crippled us however.

This year she went into first grade in public school. After three weeks in what was supposed to be a "multi-age" program where we thought she could be challenged, we took her out because she was complaining every day that it was too easy and she wasn't learning anything new. (Turns out it isn't a true multi-age program but a team-teaching rotation with afternoon "learning clubs" that are mixed grade. None of the core subjects are mixed grade. In a meeting with teachers and principal, I asked for her to be able to do 2nd grade work in at least one subject but they wouldn't do it.) She was excited about school the first week, but came home the second day saying "I think I'm ready for second grade." She was neutral the second week, and by the third week didn't want to go. Finally she outright said she wished she could go to a different school.

We found a different elementary school within our district with a principal who seemed to understand, and a teacher who said she believes in differentiated curriculum and allowing advanced work in the classroom, and moved her there this week. But even that was frustrating...
the day we visited the classroom, I showed the teacher the report on my daughter's testing (Woodc*ck-Johnson Reading Mastery Test) done at the end of K, at an age when most kids are in preschool, which showed her reading at a 3rd grade level. She scored in the 99.9th percentile compared to K, 1st and 2nd grders, and in the 90th percentile compared to 3rd graders.

The teacher barely looked at the report and said "we'll need to do our own testing." I asked how she does differentiated curriculum with the kids, and she showed me her files containing "homework pages" sorted by grade level--K through 3rd. I randomly pulled out one paper designated as 2nd grade level and asked the teacher if we could have my daughter read it to her. My daughter read it fluently, mistaking three words which she then said correctly when the teacher pointed to them and said "Can you try this one again?"

I'm glad I insisted on this reading, because I could see it opened the teacher's eyes. The page included phrases like "the instruments were invisible" and my daughter giggled at that and said, "That's funny, invisible instruments!" So the teacher knew that she was comprehending what she read. Immediately after this, the teacher pulled in a para-pro and had her take my daughter in the hall to do some kind of reading test. They returned and the para-pro said she got the top score possible.

Soon after my daughter read to the teacher, I saw another student in the class approach the teacher, point to a word on the wall and said "I don't know that word." The word was BLUE. It made me realize, again, that my daughter is just not like other kids. I asked the teacher how she lets advanced kids work ahead during class, and she said they have to do the same work as the other kids, but during free time they can choose to do advanced math, reading, etc. She said if they finish a worksheet early, they can always get a book and read to themselves.

It's a better classroom environment than at the other school, where my daughter finished a worksheet in two minutes then had to sit there doing nothing while it took the rest of the class another ten minutes. At least now she can read to herself and won't be completely bored. But I still feel so discouraged and frustrated, knowing that the teacher doesn't really "get it" about what my daughter already knows and can do.

Ugh, why does this have to be so difficult?

Galayx Girl -
((hugs))
It is very tough!
srry
Trinity

GalaxyGirl,
You are right that teachers don't "get it" when it comes to gifted children, especially highly or profoundly gifted children. The problem is that teachers rarely see children as advanced as your daughter so they don't know what to do with them.

I've discovered that most teachers don't really understand what the test results mean either. I've presented my daughter's Wood**** Johnson and Stanford Binet results to teachers before and usually just get that glassy-eyed look. I found it more effective to explain IQ in terms of chronological years. For example, if a child has an IQ of 150, she will progress intellectually 1.5 years for every chronological year. A six-year old with an IQ of 150 will be roughly the intellectual equivalent of a nine-year old.

It sounds like your daughter's teacher might be open to more advanced material once she spends more time with your daughter. If your daughter is allowed to read during her spare time, ask if you can send reading material from home. This may allow the teacher to see her true level of reading. The materials in the classroom may not be advanced enough to truly demonstrate her ability. My daughter had a book in her backpack the other day that she was reading for pleasure. The teacher was surprised to see her with a book of that level and asked her to read some. The teacher mentioned the incident to me because she was so surprised that my daughter could read so well at that level.

Don't give up hope.

Hello, I'm new to this site. However, I am a member of the SENG community, The Gifted Developement Center, and currently pursuing the injustice in the state of Illinois. It is already too late to help myself in this matter, so I intend to help future students avoid the life that I was forced to endure.

My story is a little different than most. I was discovered as gifted in the first grade(1985) with an IQ of 168 out of 175. I was doing integers, multiplication, division, reading J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis and Shakespear in the first grade. My teacher told my parents that my scores were high school level and I should be moved to the 5Th grade. My parents rejected the idea of grade skipping. They also would not let me enter any gifted programs for some reason. In 6th grade, I was in the chess club and mated an Airforce Pilot and his commanding officer in less than 9 moves combined. Again, my parents jerked me out of that too. My math teacher that same year sat me in a corner and handed me a test. I scored a 9 out of a possible 9. My parents and teachers thought I cheated and made me retake the test under their supervision. Again I scored a 9. My teacher told my parents that a 9 is an automatic acceptance to University High School for the gifted. Before she was able to finish, my father said NO! My AP Physics class in 10th grade was my only experience with academic acceleration, and that was an accident. I ended up dropping out of high school with a sincere hatred for the world, but more towards my parents. I remember my 9th grade english teacher; I had done half the semesters work in 3 weeks and had 152% grade because of extra credit. I also remember the puzzlement on her face when I told her I was dropping out a year later. I was supposed to be the class of 1999, but I went through a self-paced GED program and became the class of 1998. My father made too much money and wouldn't pay for college. There's financial aid out the window. Here it is 8 years later, and I'm in the middle of my 2nd semester of college. My whole life feels like someone is choking me and only letting me take in 10% of the air I NEED. My outlook towards this countries education system and society in a general sense is a very complicated emotion.

The point is that I was discovered at a very young age, but that is only one step. I was not only held back, I was hung out to dry. I've called my father twice in 4.5 years. My stepmother once in the same time period. I see a psychiatrist twice a week, to cope with social rejection and the loss of my family(they are still alive). The emotional damage was so traumatic that I still have repressed memories and repressed knowledge. I was doing college level Physics 9 years ago, now I struggle with elementary algebra. I 've labeled myself as a "genius-burnout". But even as a burnout, I'm too smart to fit in. Within the last 14 months, I've become more in touch with my intellect because of my therapy, and I've decided I could care less how I'm treated. Some people would give anything to have my problems, I would insult them if I tried to ignore it. I've seen these same results from others that are gifted and put through similar situations. Gifted people tend to detatch from those whom they think is holding them back. I just drafted up a way to build an infrared telescoped optics in a day and a half. I finished the drawing 4 and a half hours ago, and it will be built by Sunday. Where do I work? I'm 26 years old as of 09/26 and I work in a call center. But MAN it was fun drafting up an infrared telescope!!! Why did I draft it? Because I can,.....

Trinity and Texas Summer, thanks for your replies.

I feel a little better about the situation tonight. My daughter said she had a good day. It was her first full day in the new classroom/new school. She said she likes this classroom and teacher SO MUCH BETTER than the previous situation.

I asked why, and she said because:
1) there are LOTS of books and she can read whenever she finishes work early,
2) they are allowed to move around a lot more in the classroom,
3) the teacher is nicer and more fun and friendly and funny.

Hearing this, I feel that at least she is happier and has more independence in this classroom. The freedom to read books is definitely better than having to sit and do nothing while waiting for the rest of the class to finish worksheets. Also I think she's enjoying the "celebrity status" of being the new kid in the class... all the other kids are going out of their way to be nice to her.

When we walked into class this morning there was a sub. teacher there... she recognized DD because she long-term subbed at the private school DD went to last year for K. She looked at DD and said, "I remember you! You're the one who's the great reader!"

Then when I picked up DD in the afternoon, the para-pro who works in the room saw me and said, "Your daughter is just so smart! It's amazing!"

Both of those events made me feel good too--not because I need people to tell me my child is smart, only because it means that her differences are being recognized and talked about by the staff at this school. I think that will help everyone to be open to letting her do advanced work. The receptive attitude alone is a big improvement over the previous situation where the teachers seemed almost hostile to the idea of letting her do anything different from the norm.

I decided I need to relax and back off a little, give the new teacher time to get to know my daughter and see what she will do with her. I've heard this teacher is very creative, so I'm feeling more hopeful.

Galaxy Girl,
I don't want to rain on your good feelings - enjoy them - savor them, but don't stop the advocacy work, the meetings, etc. Keep after the principle to get your formal grade skip - maybe 3rd grade will be a better fit.

I recently heard the best answer to "we have a lot of students like yours." They may be similar in classroom preformance, or achievment test, but they are different in that their needs are being met by the current situation, and my child's needs are not.

Best Wishes,
Trinity

to J. Coleman -
Welcome Friend of Gifted Children! You have quite a story, and from the sounds of it, are well on your way of creating a huge amount of good in the world from the bad that was done to you. I feel certian that you have a big future in front of you - big in terms of setting things right! I'm glad to hear that you are in College now because I hope that you will be near people who recognise you and are willing to help you become yourself - get all the air you need!

LOL - I was so excited to read your post, and was about to get my DS10 to read it, 'till I got to the end. Maybe DS10 isn't ready for that yet. I do agree that using one's gifts is more exciting/satisfying than anything!

Please keep posting, I'm looking forward to the day when you're the parent and I'm the wide world changer!

Love and More Love,
Trinity

Trinity, point well taken. Believe me, I do not plan to stop the advocacy work, meetings, etc. -- ever! I will always push for DD to get what she needs in school.

I am just relieved and happy that this new school and teacher seem so much more receptive to the idea that DD needs something more. When I wrote above that I need to "relax and back off," I meant just to give the teacher a little time to get to know DD and draw her own conclusions. As long as DD continues to come home saying positive things about school, I'm happy for now.

In the meantime, I really need to get moving on our Davidson YS application. I wanted to have that done by now. I know it will help so much if DD is accepted as a YS and Davidson can help the school with lesson plans and other advice and support.

Thanks for your input!

Thanks for your reply and interest Trinity. I had a discussion with one of my instructors. I think it is important that I show this to the community.:

I see you have a lot of similar feelings to my own. I have been like you for 30+ years and being an educator seemed to me the only way I could maintain my creativity, individualism (and collaboration when requested or appropriate)and desire to better myself. That worked at Bradley for six years but there they did not like the fact my teaching philosophy gave the teachers I was instructing the tools to teach as facilitators and guides rather than simply purveyors of knowledge. So I was released from Bradley my last year prior to tenure with no reason put in my records. I have been here for five years this month and initially was a grant writer and adjunct faculty. Again the administration did not like that I was creative, came up with ideas and attempted to pursue them in the best interests of the college
(i.e., I joined with 7-8 other faculty members to pursue putting a wind turbine on campus and found it was feasible and would save us a great deal of money - but it wasn't what the administration wanted) and was willing to
work collaboratively with others. April 1 I was released from that job. So believe me, I completely understand your frustration and your goal(s).

I shared the information with Matt because he appeared interested in working on the ideas with you Wednesday and I know he is also very energetic, appears to like science and doesn't fit into that societal "mold" you are
describing. Also, you will need to have a lab partner (or maybe two or three) to adequately test these hypotheses. I have shared it with the
Physics prof and he and I will be getting together Monday or Tuesday of next week to see if we can provide you with the tools to perform the experiment and then share the results. His initial comments this morning were "this is
good and I think we have the tools to help him? Hmmm, I wonder how we can cool and heat the lens that will be placed in front of the light source.
Hmm, I wonder how you can keep condensation from forming on the lens." As you can see we may very well have it so that you can pursue this
investigation and the reason why from my perspective is that it will help you (and Matt and the class if you are willing to share the results) better understand the properties of light and how the environment either does or
does not impact those properties.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and general misgivings about the role the almighty dollar and the wishes of the few impact the rest of us. I have found that one can only deal with these limiting factor by having a deep well of optimism. I hope you will find that optimism as well and then keep plugging away. There will be others like me who can help you through this
morass so don't give up. Do stay frustrated, however, because that can lead to change in the long run.

Dr. Kellerman

A quick update on DD's new school situation: things are looking up! Yesterday her teacher sent home reading homework at a Grade 4 level, which was finally challenging for DD -- "maybe a little too hard" she said. It was good to see her have to slow down and actually work to sound out the words. She said it made her brain tired. :-)

The teacher also told me that she is going to have a para-pro work with DD individually every day on higher level reading, while the rest of the class has their reading group. She said she knows it is pointless to have DD doing first grade level reading.

I am so encouraged that this teacher is listening and willing to do something different for DD.

Thanks everyone for the encouragement. I will keep posting reports as the school year progresses.

Excellent news! We'll done! Go Gal Girl!
Please keep us posted
Trin

I'm so happy for you and your daughter. A good teacher is such a blessing.

Another update: Seeing DD do the Grade 4 reading homework has been fascinating! It gives me a glimpse of how quickly she processes new information.

The first night she said the new homework sheet was "maybe a little too hard." On the first attempt, she struggled with 20 out of 80 words. (These were words like: wavered, evidence, spectators, encyclopedia, suspicious.) She was very impatient when I asked her to slow down, go back and sound out a word. I would cover up the unknown word, showing one syllable at a time for her to sound out, and also took time to explain what the word meant. She was impatient with this, too, but grudgingly put up with it.

A few hours later she read the sheet again. This time she only missed 10 out of the 80 words.

The next day after school, I asked her if she had read the sheet to her teacher and if she had told her teacher the words were a little too hard. (That was DD's plan the night before.) She said, "No, I knew almost all of them today. I told her they were easy-ish."

This morning before school, I asked what she wanted for breakfast. She said, "I'll have cereal... no, maybe I'll have eggs... oh but I really like cereal... except eggs have more protein... yeah, but I had eggs yesterday... so I guess I should have cereal...."

Then she smiled and said, "Did you hear that, mom? I was WAVERING."

:-)

Galaxy,

Thanks for sharing!

It really does help to be on the same page with their homeroom teacher. So keep open those lines of communication! I cornered my 1st grader's teacher on open house even before formal classes started, so she was already aware of Lyle's file prior to 1st day of classes. When they began with the book baggy for home reading, she was already sending out level 28-30 books which I gather were mid-grade school level books already (books about volcanoes, caves, etc).

Here's to a great school year for us all...

Another update on DD5:

The Grade 4 reading homework didn't last long, maybe about a week, before the teacher jumped it up to Grade 5. It is definitely challenging for DD! (Sometimes I even have to look twice at some of the words on the reading sheet--like "aquanaut," "contralto," etc.)

Last week the teacher showed me exactly how she does the reading homework so I can help with it when I volunteer. Every child in the class has differentiated reading homework. They each get a page at their level to take home and practice reading, then bring it back the next day and she (or a parent volunteer) sits with them one at a time and listens to them read their page. If they struggle with the words, they take the same page home again for more practice. If they read it fluently, they get a new page(the next lesson in that level). After every fifth lessons, they get a "challenge" page which is another five lessons further ahead. If they can do the challenge page, they start from that new point with the lessons.

I think it's a great system. Much better than the whole class reading the same thing at the same time. This teacher does several different levels of in-class reading groups, too.

With the reading pages, out of 17 kids in the class there were a couple kids reading at K level, the majority at Grade 1, one or two kids at Grade 2... and then there's DD5, a year younger than everyone else, reading Grade 5 lessons. I am thankful for how the teacher has things set up, so DD can do this. It's wonderful to see her actually learning something. And because every child is doing something slightly different, nobody makes a big deal about her working so far ahead.

The day I watched the kids doing their reading homework, after DD read her page and then skipped away, I looked at the teacher and said, "Can you imagine her sitting through a year of traditional first grade level reading?" She said, "No, I really can't!" She also said she's never had a child start first grade reading at this level. So, I do feel that this teacher gets it, and is trying to do whatever she can, within the system, to accommodate DD. We have conferences in a week; I can't wait.

I am new here but I completely understand what you were going through. I would like to find something like that too. I currently homeschool my 6 year old daughter after sending her to first grade for one month and getting completely frustrated. I actually cried after the Open House. I have not had any formal testing for her and I have to get on the ball with that.

My problem was that I went to the school, spoke to the principal and the teachers who deal with gifted children. I showed a second grade teacher what she was doing and she admitted she was advanced. I also spoke to the one in charge of the gifted program for the school system in the county to no avail. They all assured me she would be assessed but when school started, I felt as if no one had communicated. Sure enough, I was right. The teacher had no idea about my daughter being advanced and I thought she did. When I asked if she could read her own books for free reading, I was told "no because she might lose her book." She was reading her 5th Harry Potter book since July. I don't think it would get lost in a first grade classroom. That was my first indication. I also asked the teacher about Accelerated Reader. After one month, the highest they let her go was Amelia Bedelia which she was reading over 2 years ago. They never filled me in on anything that was going on and I grew increasingly frustrated. I will be looking for a school situation similar to the one you found probably next year or for third grade. I am glad you found something like this for you and your child.

Hi Aimeebella,
Welcome!
In some ways you were lucky to reach your frustration point so quickly. Some gifted children are "gifted" in ways that let them figure out what the norms are, and mold their behavior to fit it - scary! Are you in a state with mandated gifted services? Are you active with the local homeschoolers? Have you talked to the local "tutoring and enrichment" centers? Is there a possibility of joining/starting a homeschool co-op in your area?

If you are interested in a gradeskip, have you read the Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual?

You mentioned testing. I'm not sure about the value of testing, since at home you can modify your curricula so easily, and the school only believe their own tests anyway. But if you decide to pursue it, I reccomend two ideas:
1) If you are going the IQ test route: Start with Deb Ruf's book: Losing our Minds, Gifted Children Left Behind. This will give you a rough idea of how picky you should be when looking for an independent IQ tester.
2) If you just want to see where she is in depth, for the purposes of homeschooling more effectivly, I reccomend contacting http://www.nwea.org/assessments/map.asp and looking for a place where you can have your daughter take the MAP. Although this is an emerging test, not widely recognised, I like the idea of it, and the results are so much more useable than something like the Woodcok Johnson Achievment, which is the standard, but of very limited use.

Best Wishes,
Trinity