Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional SPD and WISCIV

One of the most interesting insights I got from Webb's book on misdiagnosis of Asperger's versus gifted - some gifted kids look really out of step socially when they are not with their true peers. This often results in a diagnosis of Asperger's. But when you put them in their own circle - true peers who share their interests and are intellectually similar - the "asperger's" disappears. All of a sudden the child is able to relate, connect, share, engage and show emotions. A child with Asperger's still looks like he/she has Asperger's. I've seen three boys with Asperger's get together who all love Pokemon. They still display all the characteristics of Asperger's despite all sharing the same interest and even perhaps intellectual level. They still appear to be alone in a group. If they've learned social skills they may interact differently but appear stilted or unnatural in their exchanges.

Look for the quality of the social interactions in different settings. If the quality changes from one setting to another it is not likely Asperger's, IMHO. But, lately I'm on my soapbox for less diagnosing and more acceptance. So I might be biased.

Debbie, can I get some free OT advice? I plan on calling my therapist in the morning with a lot of ??? but a big one is, How do I get my perpetual motion child to stop and let his body rest without hypnotizing him (seriously thinking about getting certified here J/K)? He has the hardest time just resting. Example: I did hopscotch with him today and we played frisbee. I was totally wiped out and asked him to lie in the grass and watch the clouds go by (no sensory issues with grass-barefoot whenever there isn't snow on the ground). He said "No Mom, I just don't want too." He sounded disappointed so I let it go. Any ideas?

My son can also be quite the gentleman. He has picked these clues up from watching other people, TV and movies along with reading a wide variety of fiction. That doesn't mean he really is able to take my perspective - he's imitating behavior he knows he's "supposed" to display. I'm not saying that's the case with your child, just saying it is true for mine at this point.

I agree it can be hard to figure out and sometimes you need to decide why you want to figure it out. If your child is going to public school it can be essential to get a diagnosis that the school understands and recognizes. Unfortunately, being "odd" doesn't get you services, just lots of negative attention.

I have long wondered about whether my son was on the spectrum but his language skills are so superior that he dazzles most adults. I have been told repeatedly that my child is "a little professor". Trying to get his doctor to listen to me (or even the school psych's) has been an uphill battle.

I do think that ASD kids can learn and change their behavior. But that doesn't mean that the underlying difficulty has disappeared - it just means they have adapted and learned the rules of proper behavior. It may be that your child was mis-diagnosed or that he is on the spectrum but not as severe as his earlier assessment suggested.

I know my son's problems have only become really prominent in the past 2-3 years. He had symptoms before that (including the whole parroting thing when he was little) but the social difficulties didn't become really noticeable until he reached 4th to 5th grade. And because he has a hearing loss, some of the problems he has were attributed to his hearing loss.

Since your child is 11 I would really consider getting an updated speech eval. And if you're not doing much writing to grade level prompts you may want to focus on this as a way of helping clarify whether he really has problems with perspective taking. For my son, the impact of the ASD issues is really apparent when he tries to write a response to literature that requires him to analyze and respond to human emotion or social interactions. He also has trouble writing from his own perspective - if the writing prompt asks for him to write a story about his own experience he usually ends up writing about someone else as the main focus of his story - instead of himself.

Patricia

giftedticchyper - being shy is not what I am talking about. My son almost never expresses interest in other people and this is true of all the Aspie kids I know (including my niece). In your example, where your son has lots of questions about the person he met (even though he didn't ask them at the time), my son is likely to behave as if the person never existed.

If you bring the meeting up, he will agree it happened and may even comment on some aspect of the meeting like where the meeting occurred. But he will not ask "insightful" questions about that person as a general rule. If he does have questions they are not focused on the motives/emotions/thoughts of that person (i.e. no "why" questions).

Thanks, rls. I finally understand the difference. It's unfortunate that a lot of folks go around "diagnosing" other people's children but they do. So many people have called my son an aspie but when I read the symptoms, I just don't see it and the doctors agree. He is painfully shy and when he sees new people, the poor dear does something I call "the chicken". Mouth open wide, elbows back and hands down. The hands used to flap. Later, he'll say, "I hate when I meet new people and my body goes like this." He can't help it, though! Does anyone know why he does that?

Well, I wouldn't want to diagnose your son but that sounds more like a social phobia or anxiety type of problem than ASD but, given his physical reaction, I can see how that would get classified as ASD. Also, he may have "grown out" of the more severe ASD problems - it's not unknown for that to happen.

Perhaps he would be considered to be "on the spectrum" - which means he displays some characteristic ASD behaviors or the ASD behaviors are sub-clinical in severity but overall he does not have enough ASD features to meet criteria for Autism, Asperger's or PDD-NOS.

And it could be classified as a tic (sudden, usually repetitive, non-rhythmic, stereotyped motor movement). I'm no expert but if he perceives it as an involuntary reaction under stress it may fit under that category of movement disorders. Especially if he has other behaviors that might be tics or problems with movement like crossing the midline vertically or horizontally.

Patricia

Yes, he has been formally diagnosed with chronic motor tics. They run in the family. Yes, learning patty cake took him years. The doctor felt that his praxia/motor planning area was so strong plus the family history of tics, he put him into the tics category. I said, "What about ASD?" He said, "No. Don't worry about ASD. That's not what it is." I would have loved for him to take the time to explain further but time was a tickin'!

More about his empathy. He does always know what's bothering his baby brother, even when I don't. I'll say, "Why's he whining?" and DS will say, "He's hungry. He needs a diaper change. He wants you to bounce him." and he's always right even when my guess isn't. I guess if anyone here is ASD, it's me! LOL. He's not very verbal, though. He's kind of the rugged cowboy type. It's all about facial expressions and actions that speak louder than words. He's been that way since he was a baby. I may be wrong but I view it as a masculine trait. You know how men can stand around and not talk and feel as if it's a bonding experience? He's got that same proud stoicism. I hope I'm not gushing.

Is he getting any OT or PT services? The lack of words may be an aspect of his motor planning problems. Has he had a speech eval done?

Patricia

Not really. I tried doing OT at the local hospital and they had no idea what they were doing. They started with Alert but self-control isn't his biggest issue. He already works sooo hard to control his tics and such. He will be going to a sensory clinic in two weeks where they will work on his pons skills. I guess I don't understand motor planning. He is pretty proficient with legos /pattern making. I thought that was motor planning/praxia. What could a speech eval tell us? Maybe he has damage in broca's or something?

I'm no expert either just seems to me to make sense since speaking requires complex motor planning. As I understand it, motor planning refers to the process in the brain of taking a decision to do something that requires movement (I decide to say "hello") and translating that into the action (I say "hello").

I could see motor planning affecting speech and language in lots of different ways - everything from basic articulation problems to more complex problems with long sentences that require many consecutive motor actions.

I don't mean to say that there's something wrong - just wondering out loud I guess. I know with my own kids that I had no idea they were having so much trouble with language tasks that could be helped through speech therapy until they got speech evals. They could "talk" well enough to get by in life and it just didn't occur to me that there was something more going on than slow processing.

If you're concerned about it, here's some of the questions you might ask yourself - or him for that matter - about his speech and language usage:

Is he able to:

-talk freely when he wants to, especially when stressed or upset
-say what he wants to say without struggle or stuttering
-answer questions promptly with no unreasonable delays
-tell a story from beginning to end with all the information in the right order and without you having to ask lots of questions in order for you to understand the story
-focus on the important parts of the story and leave out non-essential details when appropriate
-follow complex 3 step directions
-recognize when he doesn't understand directions or information and ask for help
-understand metaphors and other non-literal speech/references without trouble at an age appropriate level
-use and understand pragmatic language accurately
-determine the correct interpretation of ambiguous messages based on the social context or non-verbal clues
-understand and use humor appropriately

Sorry - I think I got a little carried away. I'm sure you've got the idea.

Hopefully the sensory clinic will be helpful. Maybe you could ask them what they think about whether he would benefit from a speech eval.

Patricia