Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Boy Scouts--Building Confidence and Self Esteem?

My son crossed over to Boy Scouts recently and I am hoping that it will be a positive experience for him but I am worried about things like camping and hiking when he is dealing with sensory issues causing him to always be too hot or too cold, too tired, feet hurt, etc. We will have to explain to a new group of scout leaders that although he looks normal, he has motor dyspraxia and might have difficulty with some physical activities the rest of the scouts have no trouble with, but he is also very bright and sensitive.

I am not sure how to prepare my son for the physical activities that are required in scouts. We do try to spend time on activities to increase his endurance but it is hard to convince him to work past the pain. He seems to be more sensitive than the average kid to pain from muscle aches and it is hard to convince him to just keep going anyway. I worry that he will get a bad headache while he is camping and he won't be able to take anything for it until it is too late and he will be miserable. I have lived with migraines since I was a child and I can't imagine having one while camping out.

Although he doesn't refuse to do new physical activities, I can see that it causes him some anxiety, especially when he has to do it in front of others. He knows that he might be teased about being weak and some people might not think he is doing his best when he is and that is something he will just have to deal with.

I think because of his issues it probably won't be as fun for him as it seems to be for most of the other boys who have no physical issues. I wonder if staying in scouts would help him build self confidence or if his self esteem would suffer.

Should I encourage my twice exceptional son to stay in scouts?

I wonder what your son feels about it. It sounds like you are working yourself up in your mind at this point. Perhaps you need to talk to your son. He is the one who knows what he is willing to take on and what he will try to tolerate.

Hi Lori, My son has been in scouts since cub scouts, I am also one the chairman of our troop, and have been active with the boys for over 5 years. The troop should be able to make accomadations for your son. Overcoming some hardships is also part of scouting, but within reason. We have had a wide varity of boys in our troop, and have had to make changes at times according to the scouts needs. Not knowing your son, or the troop, it is something you will have to feel out for yourself.
One of the best things a boy can get from scouting is the ability to do things with a group, and to be responsible for himself and others. A good troop strongly encourages personal responsibilty, they want the scouts to be in charge, to learn by their errors. In our troop, the boys are responsible for their own gear, their own food. If they (Not their parents) forget something, they have to make do. (Note we teach them first, and we set guidelines). It can be a great tool for seperating them from their parents, and teaching them how to deal with situations. That being said, it's not always for all boys, some do not like the program. Hopefully it can work out well for your son. If you have any scouting questions please contact me.

My advice is to try not to get ahead of yourself worrying about every worst case scenario. If your son has concerns I would encourage him to talk to the leader and to make his needs known If he doesn't want to do that now I'd say it is fine if he wants to wait until a specific scenario comes up. I would never underestimate the power of a child being highly motivated to succeed at any activity creating the opportunity for them to overcome some challenges. That isn't to say he's going to be able to run marathons, but that he might ride out being cold or tired much better when he's in the moment with an activity he enjoys (than he would if he was at home with a worried mom). I understand the desire to protect him from hurt...but that can also prevent him from growth too.

I agree that you should encourage him to move up and try it. If it's not an enriching experience, he can choose to leave at any time. Perhaps he'll feel better in the long run if he gives himself the chance to expand his horizons by doing things that don't come so naturally.

My oldest son put in one year with the BSA, then decided that it was too hard and there wasn't enough fun for him. My second son is enjoying BSA, and it has stretched him in many ways. He is more responsible and resourceful than he was a year ago. He has learned some hard lessons (like get your book signed immediately, or the leader may not remember that you did such and such at camp, and you'll have to do it all over again!) but overall, it has brought him a sense of empowerment and some new buddies. He has his eye on eagle.

Lori, did he cross over with other Webelos? Is he in the same troop with them? Did he get along well with them, and they are understanding of his challenges?

If this is something he wants to do, and he should have made that decision already since he crossed over, encourage him to give it his all for a certain period of time. Remember, he's not in competition with the other boys, he's in this for his own growth and he's the only one to measure that against.

Lori,

I was in scouts for a long time and was Senior Patrol Leader. We had one Scout named Charlie and the other guys were rough on him to a large degree. He was goofy, a bit of a nerd ( like me), but he also stuck it out. He earned everyones' respect.

The incident that sticks in my mind was when we had out contest during one of our campouts among the patrols to see who would have to hump out the others' gear. The winners got to do nothing while the next winner down could pick their loads all the way down to the bottom, etc.

Well, each patrol drew lots for pairs of boys to compete and Charlie was picked in one. The contest was to navigate to the top of a hill, find another waypoint, then come back. It looked easy, but it was hard. The boy chosen with Charlie got all upset, so I volunteered to be with Charlie.

We won by 10 minutes. Charlie knew his stuff. I just walked with him and we talked. The look on everyone's face when we showed up was priceless. That incident taught everyone a lesson. And everyone wanted Charlie on their team after that.

A lot of scouting is physical, but most of it is mental - especially the merit badges.

There is nothing in the Scouting Code about being a Manly Man, most of it is about moral courage.

Edit: I told a lot of stories around the campfire. I think your son would be very good at that.

Girl Scouts is a great place for gifties. My daughter enjoys working towards badges. She will bridge to Cadettes (across Royal Gorge) on May 9. She works for every higher award. It is almost always fair (I have been her leader) and she works hard and receives a badge or award for her efforts. She has learned so much from this and has fulfilled so much "extra". You can do extra stuff and we enjoy doing it.

I wish all of life were like this.

I can't help but post on this thread... when I was a little girl I was in Brownies and discovered that (though I liked the uniform) it was very difficult, even painful, for me to be part of a group. I can vividly remember going home and telling my puzzled mother that I could not continue with Brownies because the "group think" made me so acutely uncomfortable. I was 6, and this difficulty has persisted all my life.

Anyway, my experience in not really relevant to this discussion... though I sometimes think I am projecting this "inability to join" onto my ds6-- who might well love scouts!

That is so funny because I was a Brownie dropout. When my daughter wanted to join, I tried so hard to talk her out of it. Two years later, I was a leader and realized how great it was. There is also Juliette's for those who just do the activities with their moms. My daughter was this for this year and we joined cool activities for other things. It is so different than it used to be. The badge stuff is so fun.

My DD7 is a Brownie. She LOVES it. Loves everything about it. She has read the Try-It book from cover to cover LOL! Although she finds the new Journeys program a little annoying because the book directions are not very clear and a bit internally inconsistent.

I find that I have to arrive RIGHT as the meetings and events start though because otherwise it tends to be too chaotic and overwhelming for her.

She is going to a Girl Scout sleep away camp this summer (her first) and she is counting the days.

Great thread! I have to show this to DH. He is really hesitant to sign ds up for scouts, for one thing he doesn't think he has the time in his own schedule, and it would be a stretch.
Can someone give a realistic estimate of how much time is usually needed per month to participate at an ok level (age 8 boy).

I agree completely with Austin: Lori, from the things you have written, your ds would just knock'em dead during stories around the campfire!!

DS7 was a first-time scout this year. It wasn't terribly time-consuming. There were den meetings twice a month and pack meetings once a month, usually on an off week for the den meetings. Then there were some fun weekend-type events that were optional like pro ball games or hockey, winter fun days and that sort of thing. Completing the achievements and arrowheads was pretty low-stress--a couple of hours a month at most whenever you have the time, totally at your convenience, and we did more with it than a lot of the kids. BTW, I usually did those things with DS at home, while DH took him to the meetings. That kept it from being too time-consuming for either of us.

Certainly we could have done a lot more in terms of achievements, but it seemed to be enough for DS7.

It's one of those things that can take as little or as much time as you want to take.

We have been SO wanting our DS6 to start scouting next year but the same story goes with us Lori - our DS6 has SPD and Dyspraxia and we are already seeing the issues it causes in group outings with our homeschool groups. He is a perfectionist to the nth degree and gets really upset at himself if he doesn't do something correctly the first time. We had a dad come to our door 3 days ago to sell something for scouts and we asked him some info - after he left, all I could think about was, "oh well, so much for our idea about scouts". He said in his troop the kids were required to sit still through an hour meeting once a week and show respect by sitting quietly and not disrupting anyone. That they did a lot of sports activities and relays. My little guy can not physically sit still for an hour without having some kind of sensory activitiy going on every once in awhile. He can never keep up with the other kids physically and he beats himself up emotionally because of it. When he is around a group of more than 10 kids, he gets overwhelmed sensory wise and then will have sporadic meltdowns - causing a lovely issue with friendships. We REALLY want him to do some kind of team something to help teach him how to work together with others. Wonder if we have any chance of starting a special needs scout troop :-)

Wow, why are they just sitting there for an hour? Sounds odd for an org. geared towards kids, especially boys. I don't think my ds could do that, he would end up pestering people...you should ask around some more, that is a good question for us too.
Kriston, thanks for the info and idea for splitting things up!

Scouting totally depends on the leader. Go for it Belle!

Thanks everyone! I know I have a problem with scenario-ing. My son tells me this is what I am most gifted in and he also tells me that I am being a helicopter mom, but at least he says I'm not as bad as his sister who is a Blackhawk. His sister tells him that she just knows more about the kinds of trouble he could get into if he is not careful. She was my wild child, way too social in my opinion, smart but not interested in academics at all once she started middle school and became a cheerleader. I was not a helicopter mom with my daughter and I probably should have been.

I think my son is at an age now where I need to step back and let him figure out how to work around his physical weaknesses but also give him a chance to show his strengths in front of other boys. He crossed over with only two other boys his age out of the 20 something that he started with in Tiger Cubs. He does have two friends in scouts that are four years older and one of them, the one who I think is most like my son (gifted, does musical theater, sense of humor) says he thinks my son will not like it.

I am worried that, at least with this group of kids, it might be more of a "manly man" competition. I am a little worried that my husband, a former first sergeant, might try to push him to do more than he can do and he will end up being embarrassed in front of the other boys and his dad. My husband thinks I should stay home if they go on a camping trip. I was thinking I could stay in our travel trailer somewhere nearby, but out of sight.

I have noticed that boys and men (even 50 something year old men) are still very competitive physically. There is another 50 something year old dad who is a scout leader, also former military, but now working as an engineer. It looked like this guy and my husband were competing with each other when the boys were working on a fitness badge. So I am wondering if this physical competition thing is something that my son will have to deal with even as he gets older. If so, maybe he just needs to find a way to deal with it now.

If he has a chance to do what he is good at, making up jokes and humorous stories and doing imitations of people, then I think the other kids will like him and maybe it will be okay. I do think he needs to try it.

Thank again, everyone.

Here is another scouting story. I have so many...

We took a late fall trip up into a Wilderness Area. The scoutmaster dropped about 40 of us off with two college kids who were former Eagle Scouts. The objective was to hike over a ridge and then down into a lake where we would be picked up in two days on Sunday.

We made camp and had fun playing games and cooking and then sat around telling ghost stories.

At midnight, one of the men had a premonition something was wrong at home, so two of us walked out with him so he could call home. sure enough, his child had swallowed poison and he had to leave, so we hiked back by ourselves in the dark.

The next morning, we hiked over the ridge to the lake, which was frozen over. We played "ice hockey" on the lake for hours, then the scoutmaster showed up, and wanted to take our picture.

Now, we had played on this lake ALL DAY, so when he asked us to stand on the ice for a "group" picture, we complied without thinking.

Just as we gathered together and the scoutmaster said, "Say Cheese!" and clicked the button, great cracks of ice appeared in the ice and a loud series of booms filled the air!!!

We all ran screaming from the ice!! And then laughed really hard on the shore!!

And yes, the picture showed us running, faces in terror, towards the camera!!

I strongly agree. If he gets the opportunity and he decides it isn't for him - he is a success in having tried something new. If he gets to try it, but only over mom's reservations while she's lurking nearby in the camper - it sends the message you really don't have confidence that he can try new things. That message from mom is a far more damaging one than any amount of teasing (if it were to actually occur which is still nothing more than a scenario).

Lori, step away from the helicopter and give me the keys!
I think your husband is right, stay home when they go camping. Do not stay in a camper close by, even if out of sight. Part of scouting is to work as a team. If your boy young man needs help he needs to learn how to ask it of his team mates, and the others need to learn how to give it. I am sure there will be times your son is asking for help, other times he will be asked to give help. Scouting is a great way for him to start spreading those wings you gave him.

My son was nominated for the scout historian position by one of his older friends and even though he has mixed feelings about it since he knows this means he will definitely have to go to the camps to take pictures, he decided to accept the position. His older friend also invited him to a birthday party and several of the older scouts are also invited so he will get to know some of the older scouts a little better.

We bought the book that lists all the merit badge requirements and I told him there were badges he could earn that did not require physical strength. He said, "Oh sure, Mom, I bet they have something like birdwatching, but the book isn't going to come out and say anything about hiking for miles up a mountain to find that perfect bird watching spot. Ya gotta read between the lines, Mom."

He says the hiking is one of the things that worries him the most. He doesn't want other kids to have to wait on him and he worries that he will trip over rocks. He is trying to build up ankle strength (he has very weak ankles and I have noticed that sometimes his feet are not pointed straight ahead when he walks) and he says building up endurance is not totally going to fix the problem because there is also the problem with the terrain. When his legs and feet get tired he is much more likely to trip and fall than the average kid. On a treadmill he can hold on to the handles when he needs to.

He also told me he thought scouting for him would be like a person who can't read going to the library. The nonreader will be able to enjoy some things, maybe he might enjoy watching other people or looking at the pictures in the books or maybe he can enjoy just getting out of the house, but he will not get the same full experience that the reader can enjoy. So I think he is willing to try it, to try to enjoy what he can from it.

I think he can handle a one night camping trip if he doesn't end up having to wear a scoliosis brace. I can't imagine a kid who still has trouble with clothing tags having to wear one of these in 100 degree heat and humidity. I didn't have clothing tag issues when I was a kid but I do remember wearing a bra as a girl when I went to girl scout camp and hating being hot and sticky and wearing that bra just about drove me crazy. I wouldn't take it off, not because I really needed one at the time, but because all the other girls were wearing one and they didn't seem to be bothered by it and I could deal with a little discomfort to fit in. I was sensitive to some things but my son is more extreme in his sensitivities to heat and cold than I ever was. I swear he is having hot flashes and if anyone should be having them it is me and I'm not.

One of my reasons for helicoptering is that I still have memories of the three little girl scouts who were dragged from their tents and killed in the middle of the night back in the late 70's. I remember imagining what it was like for them and their parents who sent them off to camp thinking they would be safe and would have a good time. I still remember my scenarios from hearing about that.

Another reason for the helicopter is that I know that you can't tell from just looking at a person if he is a child molester or collector of child pornography and that some of these people manage to find ways to be around young boys--could this happen in scouts? My husband and I were married by a part time preacher who was also my husband's supervisor at the time who is in prison now for collecting child pornography. I was around this guy several times, waiting for my husband to get off work and would have never guessed he was this way. Because of this experience I worry that my mom radar is defective. The scout leaders seem very nice and seem to really care about the kids, but how do you really know?

I think my son will be okay if he sleeps in the same tent with his dad and I wouldn't worry that his staying awake all night would cause problems with the other boys. My son hears everything and those coyotes often sound like they are really close to the tent. My son and I know that they won't bother us (there are coyotes that raid my dad's garden next door--they especially liked his watermelons last year) but the howling creeps us out enough that we won't walk to the port-a-potty in the middle of the night if we need to go. My husband can go without sleep better than I can and also, since he is a military veteran with lots of experience I would not worry about my son's safety too much. I only worry that my husband might try to get him to do more than he can do.

It will probably be months before we can get any kind of doctor's statement about what my son should be able to do or not do. That is the way our insurance works. We get to see a PCP who doesn't seem to know a lot about motor dyspraxia and sensory issues and wants to leave it up to a specialist to determine what kind of treatment or accommodations should be made for him. We are waiting to see if our insurance will approve a neuropsychological assessment at the moment and we are being told it will probably be September before we can even get that, then it will take even longer to get in to see a medical doctor. We end up having to get most of our info off the internet because it takes so long to see specialists and our insurance doesn't cover sensory integration therapy.

I think if my son could have gotten OT and PT as a baby some of these problems could have been avoided. My son qualified for free early intervention services as a baby but our PCP at the military base had to approve the OT and PT and he wouldn't do it. He only referred us to a neurologist. When we went back to the PCP (a different one) there was no mention of my son needing any kind of therapy because by that time he was beginning to pull himself up (at 13 months) so we thought everything was okay. Nobody said anything about not crawling being a problem. We knew it couldn't be muscular dystrophy because it wasn't progressive and the doctors he saw at the base didn't think hypotonia and a little muscle weakness and mild motor delays was enough reason to do anything like OT or PT. I still trusted doctors at that time and I didn't know at that time how important early intervention can be. It wasn't until he started kindergarten that I found out that his physical weakness and fine motor delays and sensory issues would affect his being able to get an appropriate education, that his academic needs would not be met because there was no law in our state requiring an appropriate education for twice exceptional kids. I just remember how disappointed he seemed when things didn't work out with the school. I don't want scouts to be another disappointment for him, but he will never know unless he tries.

FWIW, not all troops do a lot of hiking. My son's unit camps every month year round, but rarely goes on a hike.

From what you have shared, your son would not be the shrinking violet who would sit there and be quiet while someone molested him. He's so articulate. If the troop follows the 2-deep leader protocol (which they should always be doing) he shouldn't even get into a 1:1 situation that could lead to abuse.

I have read and heard many places the best defense against child predators is to have articulate, confident children. Child predators tend to seek out loners. I would verify they follow 2-deep leader protocol - every kid's group my kids go to does and I would be surprised if they didn't.

I am training to be a campfire leader right now and they do a full background check before you're certified. I'd be surprised if boy scouts doesn't do the same.

I was an extremely uncoordinated kid and I'm sure I would have qualified for PT/OT if I were born now. It's a joke in our family that I could never skip and my kindergarten teacher was concerned. Anyway, I gained my love of being active by being outdoors, camping, listening to loons on lakes, etc. I'm glad your son is willing to try. I think he might surprise himself if he sticks with it!

He agrees that it is his attitude that is more of a problem than the dyspraxia and says even though he is an actor he would have trouble feigning having fun on hikes because being a pedestrian is too pedestrian for him.

He says he feels like his dad and I are trying to push him into doing the camps and although I have mixed feelings about the camps, I do want him to stay in scouts because it is a mixed age group and there are adults in the group who are engineers and computer programmers and other people who are willing to share their time and knowledge with the kids. He can't go to the first camp because we have to go to my husband's reunion with other Vietnam vets. Some of them have some really interesting stories to tell about surviving in very difficult circumstances and I would like for my son to hear some of these stories now that he is a little older and is almost to Vietnam War years in his decade studies. He likes reading survival stories and he likes watching Man vs. Wild but I guess he would rather learn this stuff in the comfort of his own home.

I agree attitude is the greater concern especially since it is the part that can be altered more easily than underlying physical differences. I'm wondering Lori what role you see yourself playing in his attitude - you've expressed a lot of worries, do you think he picks up on that? What can you do to help him learn to think more positively?

He says it is hard to be positive about this when he has already been on several camping trips with the Cub Scouts. He said the only thing he really enjoyed was eating breakfast in the morning and the rest of the time he was either too hot or too cold or too tired or his feet hurt or he was bored and he doesn't see how Boy Scout camp will be any different. He says he only remembers one time when he enjoyed a little of a camp, and that was when a local astronomy club set up some really nice expensive looking telescopes at the camp for them to look at the stars.

Just from a distance here...

In your post here and in other threads too, I hear a HUGE amount of worry being expressed by you and a lot of feelings of overprotection. I understand those feelings initially come from a desire not to see him hurt, but they can take on a life of their own.

When you say attitude is his biggest problem, bigger than dyspraxia, what role you see yourself playing in that? Do you acknowledge he's picked up on your worries and lack of confidence that opportunities will work out for him?

In most troops camping is just one of many activities, but it sounds like ahead of time the entire potential of this experience is being boiled down to: sore feet, being molested, being teased, having headaches, falling behind, not being successful as an adult, etc. Does that view seem like a fair and accurate way to judge the potential of this experience? What does it say that the positives are not even being discussed?

So...my question is...is it possible to parent from a positive place with optimistic thoughts for your child's future when you are feeling so worried?

Scouts are usually very into safety. I used to worry about my daughter this way also. It was hard to let go. It gets easier and scouts is fairly safe these days with all the forms and safety measures they throw at everyone.

He does not worry nearly as much as I do and in fact he teases me about how much I worry. For example, today when I drove him to his friend's house for a birthday party, he started saying things like "Oh no, we could hit a pothole in the road and bounce out of the car and .... he just kept adding ridiculous things to the scenario to make his point that I worry too much. He and his dad and my daughter, when she is visiting, sometimes gang up on me and tease me about it. But the way I look at it, I am only trying to make sure I have solutions ready for potential problems. I like the scout motto--"Be Prepared."

His dad doesn't worry about anything. He says he survived being shot at in the military and he is a cancer survivor and he is not going to waste time worrying. He rides a motorcycle in rush hour traffic along with people talking on cell phones. I could never do that without a lot of anxiety. I told him I wouldn't ride on the motorcycle with him in traffic until our son is grown.

My son does not see himself as the pessimist he says I am, but he is not as much an optimist as his dad.

My son sees himself as being more of a pragmatist and said he liked the advice in John C Maxwell's book, "Talent is Never Enough." In the book it says he teaches people at his conferences to stop working on their weaknesses and start working on their strengths and that it has been his observation that people can increase their ability in an area by only 2 points on a scale of 1 to 10. If your natural talent in an area is a 4, with hard work you might be able to increase it to a 6, but if you find a place where you are a 7 you have the potential to become a 9 or even a 10 if it's your greatest area of strength and you work exceptionally hard. My son thinks he is about a 2 in physical coordination and strength and if he worked really hard he would still be below average and he thinks he would be better off using his time to work on his strengths. I do think scouting will give him a chance to work on his strengths and I am trying to convince him. I just think he might need to delay the long hikes and camping trips that the other kids seem to like so much until he can see for himself that there are also things that he will have fun doing.

He says he knows our scout troop is more sports and outdoor oriented than others because he knows some of the older kids. But two of his older friends are in the scout troop and neither of them do sports--they are in band and they were both identified as gifted in the public school, so there is a small group of smart and not at all athletic boys. I am hoping they can talk him into staying.

Lori H In general I think that most of your son's words and actions show great wisdom, but I think his argument about not working on physical conditioning has a logical fallacy: If the only purpose of physical activity was compitition then his argument makes perfect sense. I think that the purpose of physical conditioning is to support a balanced mind and spirit. For what it is worth, I am often faced with being persuaded by my son's perspective and I have to work really hard to cut through the bull. best wishes grinity

The talent book idea sounds like a coping mechanism that a smart kid would come up with. The chink in the armor of course is that these delays don't just get in the way of things he doesn't care about doing but touch up against things he may really value - math, music, being with other people and of course feeling well. I think it is great if he can embrace his strengths, but I would look a bit past the surface comments there. Kids often say they are too cool for something that scares them or that they have to work at - it doesn't mean there isn't hurt underneath.

I wasn't clear from your post. Is your belief that he sees you are pessimistic but his whole view of that is that it is funny? Do you think on any level he hears your worries as a lack of trust and confidence in his abilities? I'll be direct - it is hard for me to really believe any kid would not pick up on this and feel bad about it. At the very core of it - helicopter parenting says to the kid that you don't believe in them or trust them.

Typically, it is the top of the class that earns the Eagle Scout and Gold Award (Girl Scouts). These are the ones that stick it out when sports and all get in the way. That is why these awards get them scholarships and so much prestige. Most of the astronauts and engineers earned these awards.

He argues that he can and will work on physical conditioning at home--on the treadmill, where he can easily track his progress and he has only himself to compete with, and he can work out using our weight machine and Wii Fit and I let him use our living room as an obstacle course if he wants to.

I think part of the reason for wanting to work on physical things in the privacy of his own home is that a public schooled friend told us that if kids found out he was weak he would be bullied, but he was only talking about if my son ever went back to the public school. Another friend, several years older, agreed that he would need "protection" from these bullies if he ever went back to school. All of the kids in my son's scout troop, except for my son, go to that public school and I think I can understand why my son might want to try to hide his mild disability for that reason. The potential bullying problem is what put me into helicopter mode. My daughter, as a child, could easily take care of herself and I was never a helicopter parent with her. She said she learned to be mean in preschool so that usually nobody bothered her, but if they did, she took care of it right away and they didn't bother her again, and she always had an army of friends.

Hmm...he's saying he should focus his attention on his strengths and he's saying he'll work out alone at home. It doesn't matter to me but I'll do it, a bit of a contradiction there.

To be clear I'm not saying I can't imagine how you went into helicopter mode in the first place. It doesn't take a lot of imagination to figure out how that would come about and I recognize the intended kindness that underlies overprotection. However, it can still really hurt a kid. I'd suggest really doing some honest assessment about how parental worry and helicoptering may really diminish a child's sense of confidence and in their potential for meaningful relationships with others and for the possibility of growth.

http://www.dukegiftedletter.com/articles/vol8no2_feature.html

I beg to differ. I do not belive most engineers earned those awards. I am an engineer, and none of my female engineer friends earned (or had even heard of) a gold award. There may be some correlation between high scouting awards and high life achievement, but I don't think there's a correlation between engineering degrees and scouting awards.

Maybe not in your area. We have been to many programs at NASA and Women in Engineering where these women reach out and connect. If anyone gets a chance to attend, they are wonderful.

I beg to differ on the physical conditioning. Treadmills are fine, but pushups and situps and whole body calisthenics, especially done in ladders, can be more beneficial. Very often, its the weakness in the core muscles as well as balance that make someone weak or strong. Focusing on these - core and balance - can compensate for weaknesses in other areas. I'd look up "Yoga for Regular Guys" and Pavel Tsatsouline. Both exercise regimes can be done at home with minimal equipment in 20-30 min per day. The latter develops explosive strength which is what is needed to feel confident about defending oneself.

I changed my weight training the last year and have increased my max by 50% in some areas. The easy gains come early, but it is the slow incrementals that add up over time. Diet, especially protein and milk intake, has a huge effect as well.

For a child who has not entered puberty, there is often no comparison to the man that emerges from the other side. Again, diet and exercise has huge affect as does the maturing of the immune system. Ugly duckling rule applies to boys as well.

Hey everybody, just posting back to state that cub scouts is going well for our ds who just turned 9 on Monday .
He is going for a week day camp this week and so far everything seems to be going ok. He missed the overnight camp a couple weekends back due to a virus. His allergies are bad this week, but the doc said I was not giving him a full dose anyway, so we increased it and he has been enjoying himself. Alot.
Dh was with him Monday and I went Tuesday just to make sure he was settling in ok, and they did request adult volunteers. Today and tomorrow he is on his own but I am pretty sure he will be fine now that he knows several of the kids a bit better.
The pack leader is pretty laid back and the camp really keeps things moving, there isn't a lot of boring waiting time for the kids. There is a good mix of kids, for the most part polite and fun.
Anyhow, so far so good.