Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Boy Scouts--Building Confidence and Self Esteem?

My son was nominated for the scout historian position by one of his older friends and even though he has mixed feelings about it since he knows this means he will definitely have to go to the camps to take pictures, he decided to accept the position. His older friend also invited him to a birthday party and several of the older scouts are also invited so he will get to know some of the older scouts a little better.

We bought the book that lists all the merit badge requirements and I told him there were badges he could earn that did not require physical strength. He said, "Oh sure, Mom, I bet they have something like birdwatching, but the book isn't going to come out and say anything about hiking for miles up a mountain to find that perfect bird watching spot. Ya gotta read between the lines, Mom."

He says the hiking is one of the things that worries him the most. He doesn't want other kids to have to wait on him and he worries that he will trip over rocks. He is trying to build up ankle strength (he has very weak ankles and I have noticed that sometimes his feet are not pointed straight ahead when he walks) and he says building up endurance is not totally going to fix the problem because there is also the problem with the terrain. When his legs and feet get tired he is much more likely to trip and fall than the average kid. On a treadmill he can hold on to the handles when he needs to.

He also told me he thought scouting for him would be like a person who can't read going to the library. The nonreader will be able to enjoy some things, maybe he might enjoy watching other people or looking at the pictures in the books or maybe he can enjoy just getting out of the house, but he will not get the same full experience that the reader can enjoy. So I think he is willing to try it, to try to enjoy what he can from it.

I think he can handle a one night camping trip if he doesn't end up having to wear a scoliosis brace. I can't imagine a kid who still has trouble with clothing tags having to wear one of these in 100 degree heat and humidity. I didn't have clothing tag issues when I was a kid but I do remember wearing a bra as a girl when I went to girl scout camp and hating being hot and sticky and wearing that bra just about drove me crazy. I wouldn't take it off, not because I really needed one at the time, but because all the other girls were wearing one and they didn't seem to be bothered by it and I could deal with a little discomfort to fit in. I was sensitive to some things but my son is more extreme in his sensitivities to heat and cold than I ever was. I swear he is having hot flashes and if anyone should be having them it is me and I'm not.

One of my reasons for helicoptering is that I still have memories of the three little girl scouts who were dragged from their tents and killed in the middle of the night back in the late 70's. I remember imagining what it was like for them and their parents who sent them off to camp thinking they would be safe and would have a good time. I still remember my scenarios from hearing about that.

Another reason for the helicopter is that I know that you can't tell from just looking at a person if he is a child molester or collector of child pornography and that some of these people manage to find ways to be around young boys--could this happen in scouts? My husband and I were married by a part time preacher who was also my husband's supervisor at the time who is in prison now for collecting child pornography. I was around this guy several times, waiting for my husband to get off work and would have never guessed he was this way. Because of this experience I worry that my mom radar is defective. The scout leaders seem very nice and seem to really care about the kids, but how do you really know?

I think my son will be okay if he sleeps in the same tent with his dad and I wouldn't worry that his staying awake all night would cause problems with the other boys. My son hears everything and those coyotes often sound like they are really close to the tent. My son and I know that they won't bother us (there are coyotes that raid my dad's garden next door--they especially liked his watermelons last year) but the howling creeps us out enough that we won't walk to the port-a-potty in the middle of the night if we need to go. My husband can go without sleep better than I can and also, since he is a military veteran with lots of experience I would not worry about my son's safety too much. I only worry that my husband might try to get him to do more than he can do.

It will probably be months before we can get any kind of doctor's statement about what my son should be able to do or not do. That is the way our insurance works. We get to see a PCP who doesn't seem to know a lot about motor dyspraxia and sensory issues and wants to leave it up to a specialist to determine what kind of treatment or accommodations should be made for him. We are waiting to see if our insurance will approve a neuropsychological assessment at the moment and we are being told it will probably be September before we can even get that, then it will take even longer to get in to see a medical doctor. We end up having to get most of our info off the internet because it takes so long to see specialists and our insurance doesn't cover sensory integration therapy.

I think if my son could have gotten OT and PT as a baby some of these problems could have been avoided. My son qualified for free early intervention services as a baby but our PCP at the military base had to approve the OT and PT and he wouldn't do it. He only referred us to a neurologist. When we went back to the PCP (a different one) there was no mention of my son needing any kind of therapy because by that time he was beginning to pull himself up (at 13 months) so we thought everything was okay. Nobody said anything about not crawling being a problem. We knew it couldn't be muscular dystrophy because it wasn't progressive and the doctors he saw at the base didn't think hypotonia and a little muscle weakness and mild motor delays was enough reason to do anything like OT or PT. I still trusted doctors at that time and I didn't know at that time how important early intervention can be. It wasn't until he started kindergarten that I found out that his physical weakness and fine motor delays and sensory issues would affect his being able to get an appropriate education, that his academic needs would not be met because there was no law in our state requiring an appropriate education for twice exceptional kids. I just remember how disappointed he seemed when things didn't work out with the school. I don't want scouts to be another disappointment for him, but he will never know unless he tries.

FWIW, not all troops do a lot of hiking. My son's unit camps every month year round, but rarely goes on a hike.

From what you have shared, your son would not be the shrinking violet who would sit there and be quiet while someone molested him. He's so articulate. If the troop follows the 2-deep leader protocol (which they should always be doing) he shouldn't even get into a 1:1 situation that could lead to abuse.

I have read and heard many places the best defense against child predators is to have articulate, confident children. Child predators tend to seek out loners. I would verify they follow 2-deep leader protocol - every kid's group my kids go to does and I would be surprised if they didn't.

I am training to be a campfire leader right now and they do a full background check before you're certified. I'd be surprised if boy scouts doesn't do the same.

I was an extremely uncoordinated kid and I'm sure I would have qualified for PT/OT if I were born now. It's a joke in our family that I could never skip and my kindergarten teacher was concerned. Anyway, I gained my love of being active by being outdoors, camping, listening to loons on lakes, etc. I'm glad your son is willing to try. I think he might surprise himself if he sticks with it!

He agrees that it is his attitude that is more of a problem than the dyspraxia and says even though he is an actor he would have trouble feigning having fun on hikes because being a pedestrian is too pedestrian for him.

He says he feels like his dad and I are trying to push him into doing the camps and although I have mixed feelings about the camps, I do want him to stay in scouts because it is a mixed age group and there are adults in the group who are engineers and computer programmers and other people who are willing to share their time and knowledge with the kids. He can't go to the first camp because we have to go to my husband's reunion with other Vietnam vets. Some of them have some really interesting stories to tell about surviving in very difficult circumstances and I would like for my son to hear some of these stories now that he is a little older and is almost to Vietnam War years in his decade studies. He likes reading survival stories and he likes watching Man vs. Wild but I guess he would rather learn this stuff in the comfort of his own home.

I agree attitude is the greater concern especially since it is the part that can be altered more easily than underlying physical differences. I'm wondering Lori what role you see yourself playing in his attitude - you've expressed a lot of worries, do you think he picks up on that? What can you do to help him learn to think more positively?

He says it is hard to be positive about this when he has already been on several camping trips with the Cub Scouts. He said the only thing he really enjoyed was eating breakfast in the morning and the rest of the time he was either too hot or too cold or too tired or his feet hurt or he was bored and he doesn't see how Boy Scout camp will be any different. He says he only remembers one time when he enjoyed a little of a camp, and that was when a local astronomy club set up some really nice expensive looking telescopes at the camp for them to look at the stars.

Just from a distance here...

In your post here and in other threads too, I hear a HUGE amount of worry being expressed by you and a lot of feelings of overprotection. I understand those feelings initially come from a desire not to see him hurt, but they can take on a life of their own.

When you say attitude is his biggest problem, bigger than dyspraxia, what role you see yourself playing in that? Do you acknowledge he's picked up on your worries and lack of confidence that opportunities will work out for him?

In most troops camping is just one of many activities, but it sounds like ahead of time the entire potential of this experience is being boiled down to: sore feet, being molested, being teased, having headaches, falling behind, not being successful as an adult, etc. Does that view seem like a fair and accurate way to judge the potential of this experience? What does it say that the positives are not even being discussed?

So...my question is...is it possible to parent from a positive place with optimistic thoughts for your child's future when you are feeling so worried?

Scouts are usually very into safety. I used to worry about my daughter this way also. It was hard to let go. It gets easier and scouts is fairly safe these days with all the forms and safety measures they throw at everyone.

He does not worry nearly as much as I do and in fact he teases me about how much I worry. For example, today when I drove him to his friend's house for a birthday party, he started saying things like "Oh no, we could hit a pothole in the road and bounce out of the car and .... he just kept adding ridiculous things to the scenario to make his point that I worry too much. He and his dad and my daughter, when she is visiting, sometimes gang up on me and tease me about it. But the way I look at it, I am only trying to make sure I have solutions ready for potential problems. I like the scout motto--"Be Prepared."

His dad doesn't worry about anything. He says he survived being shot at in the military and he is a cancer survivor and he is not going to waste time worrying. He rides a motorcycle in rush hour traffic along with people talking on cell phones. I could never do that without a lot of anxiety. I told him I wouldn't ride on the motorcycle with him in traffic until our son is grown.

My son does not see himself as the pessimist he says I am, but he is not as much an optimist as his dad.

My son sees himself as being more of a pragmatist and said he liked the advice in John C Maxwell's book, "Talent is Never Enough." In the book it says he teaches people at his conferences to stop working on their weaknesses and start working on their strengths and that it has been his observation that people can increase their ability in an area by only 2 points on a scale of 1 to 10. If your natural talent in an area is a 4, with hard work you might be able to increase it to a 6, but if you find a place where you are a 7 you have the potential to become a 9 or even a 10 if it's your greatest area of strength and you work exceptionally hard. My son thinks he is about a 2 in physical coordination and strength and if he worked really hard he would still be below average and he thinks he would be better off using his time to work on his strengths. I do think scouting will give him a chance to work on his strengths and I am trying to convince him. I just think he might need to delay the long hikes and camping trips that the other kids seem to like so much until he can see for himself that there are also things that he will have fun doing.

He says he knows our scout troop is more sports and outdoor oriented than others because he knows some of the older kids. But two of his older friends are in the scout troop and neither of them do sports--they are in band and they were both identified as gifted in the public school, so there is a small group of smart and not at all athletic boys. I am hoping they can talk him into staying.

Lori H In general I think that most of your son's words and actions show great wisdom, but I think his argument about not working on physical conditioning has a logical fallacy: If the only purpose of physical activity was compitition then his argument makes perfect sense. I think that the purpose of physical conditioning is to support a balanced mind and spirit. For what it is worth, I am often faced with being persuaded by my son's perspective and I have to work really hard to cut through the bull. best wishes grinity