Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Where do I even begin?! Except. gifted preschooler

Please help! Any advice is welcome!

We believe our 4-yr. old son may be exceptionally gifted, very likely between Ruf's Level Four and Five.

He is enrolled in his second year of Pre-K at a Montessori school, which we chose because it seemed to be the only one in our city capable of keeping him interested. He has done what most, if not all, of your children probably have experienced. He was reading at two, and colors/shapes/numbers were mastered at age one. He is very social, has a huge and appropriate vocabulary, etc. He is what anyone would consider a charming and bright child. We probably should have listened when several people assured us he was "different."

Now, after a conference with his teacher today, I believe the behavior problems are beginning. He seems uninterested, easily distracted, doesn't want to do something because it's "too hard" (activities which should be very easy for him), and his behavior is to the point that it may become a significant disruption for the other children. Just as Ruf's article describes, that "spark" seems to be missing from school-related experiences.

His teacher has even suggested that we pay close attention to the fact that he "plays" or interacts with his friends only about 50 percent of the time, and the other 50 percent chooses to play alone. She is almost suggestive that his early reading skills, happiness in playing alone, lack of focus, or extensive, but temporary, focus on certain topics could be related to a disorder, albeit very mild, such as Asberger's.

I've been reading everything I can tonight about Asberger's and have quickly concluded this is NOT what we are dealing with.

Rather, I'm going back in my mind to our first visit with our local family doctor, for whom I have a lot of respect, who tried to convince me over a year or two ago that my son is a "genius." I also have an acquaintance who did the same, after almost obsessing over my two year old at a party. She told me that she had never met another child like her own until she met my son. (Her son is now 26. He finished college at 16, has an incredibly high IQ, etc. You can get the picture.) She was fascinated, and called me the next day, after staying up all night trying to get me some names of who to contact in our area.

I sort of believed them, but just thought that we have a "bright" child. The teacher at our Montessori school has played a large part in this - I do not feel that she believes me when I tell her that Jonathan may be gifted at this level. I am quite reserved with her when we discuss this, because I don't want to come across as a "bragging" parent. But I just don't get the feeling that she believes me. Which almost seems unfair on my part, because she is an intelligent, loving, and interested teacher. She told me she tries to get Jonathan interested in more challenging activities. Even then, something just isn't clicking. Now I'm wondering...the whole concept of Montessori is for children to stay in the same class/same teacher for 3 years. Is it possible he's already bored with the same "routines," even though he is doing different work every day? Perhaps this is just the opposite of what he needs? Any input/opinions about Montessori are welcome.

Today has really changed my perception of what these two were trying to tell us.

I have been soaking up everything I can from this website, and I have been reading as much as I can from other sources you have links to. My son, Jonathan, fits the descriptions quite well. It is all starting to make sense now. Perhaps these two people who have met Jonathan are correct. It is just all coming together now. I almost got chills when I read the Levels described in Ruf's article. My son just had a conversation with me today about the tooth fairy (he was showing me a wiggly tooth). It was clear to me that he was questioning her existence. "Mommy, I don't think that a tooth fairy really lives on this earth." I struggled with how to respond. I have a desires to offer a "normal" four-year old world response,yet I knew what he was trying to tell me. He also seemed rather perplexed all through the holiday season about how Santa actually gets into our house, where he lives, and just how the whole thing works. Again, it was clear to me, and somewhat uncomfortable, because I wasn't sure how to respond, that he was questioning whether or not Santa was real. He was 3 at the time. He is now 4. It never even dawned on me that even these types of conversations would point to giftedness. He fits almost every descriptor she lists in Level Four.

Can you tell I'm sort of freaking out here?!!

I'm just realizing what may potentially lie ahead. I'm also thinking that I need to act quickly, so that I can get him plugged in to an appropriate program, whether it is home schooling or something else. My maternal instincts have been telling me since he went back to school in late August that something is amiss. I just haven't been able to put my finger on it. He is a happy, confident, joyful child at home. But I can tell when I pick him up from school that something just isn't quite right. It's not like there have been any specific, significant events/outbursts/behaviors. He still goes about his day and participates. He just doesn't seem interested at all anymore, and needs a lot of encouragement to do his "works." I can just tell that he is not happy or stressed or frustrated. Or maybe just BORED. And then reading Ruf's articles just absolutely has changed my entire perception of what is happening in his little mind. I suddenly feel like I need to pull him out of the Montessori school and begin home schooling. I have felt this for the past two months, but I haven't been able to explain it. Just instinct, I suppose. He is a happy, well adjusted child. But he is unhappy at school. It hasn't made sense until now.Sorry. I know I'm rambling. I'm just trying to process it all.

What do I do next?!!

I'm already thinking I should definitely have him tested. Where do I begin? Who can I trust? Which tests are valid at this age? That's why we didn't have him tested two years ago-everything I read suggested that it was too early. Now I almost feel panicked that we have this small window to keep him engaged in the desire to continue learning. My instant reaction is to start the process to try and skip kindergarten and get him into first grade. I've heard that our local school, which consistently receives exemplary ratings, has a good "gifted" program. Who knows if that is really true or not.

I'm just feeling completely overwhelmed, and realizing that my "bright" child is much more than "bright." And I don't want to fail him.

I respectfully request any sound advice you'd like to offer. I'm so thankful for the information I've already discovered on this site.

Thank you in advance,
Allison (Jonathan's mom)

Hi Allison,
Welcome. You are in the right place.

From your description, it appears that your child may be profoundly gifted. I recommend applying to the Young Scholar Program http://www.ditdservices.org/Articles.aspx?ArticleID=147&NavID=0_0. If you chose to get your child tested, make sure that you use a test accepted by the Young Scholar Program. If you want more information on testing see Hoagies Gifted website http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/why_test.htm. If you have never been to Hoagies you may want to start at the Gifted 101 tab.

Be cautious what type of feedback you accept from people who are not familar with highly gifted children. These children often exhibit certain behavior as a defense mechanism that people will interpret as a variety of problems. It is not uncommon for people put a label of autism or ADD on gifted kids when the real problem is that they are in an inappropriate intellectual and social environment.

My personal experience came when my daughter was in preschool. I knew she was advanced for her age so I put her in a preschool that was teaching a kindergarten curriculum. She was so bored that she would lay on her back and spin around in circles. This was not a typical behavior for my child. She also had a difficult time interacting with the children in her class. I was extremely concerned that she would never have any friends. The next year I put her in a Spanish immersion program for kindergarten. She seemed like a different child. She was mentally stimulated and was sharing the experience of learning with her classmates. She is in 3rd grade now and has many friends, but it is still quite a job to keep her intellectually stimulated.

It will be an ongoing challenge for you as the parent of a highly gifted child to keep your child intellectually stimulated. Don't be surprised if you are accused of pushing your child when in reality you are simply trying to keep up. This is why it is important to find a support group. We have a great PG support group in my area. It is a tremendous help for the parents and the children benefit from having true intellectual peers. It is so important to have others with whom you can share the joys and trials of raising your child.

Texas Summer,

Thank you for your response! I cannot stop thinking about all of these issues today. Should I remove my child immediately from his school? Is home schooling best? Should we prepare to fight the public schools to skip kindergarten or just home school? And on and on...

"Be cautious what type of feedback you accept from people who are not familar with highly gifted children. These children often exhibit certain behavior as a defense mechanism that people will interpret as a variety of problems. It is not uncommon for people put a label of autism or ADD on gifted kids when the real problem is that they are in an inappropriate intellectual and social environment. "

It's nice to hear this affirmation. My family has been quite disappointed that this teacher would automatically start asking questions about red flags for Asberger's. She emphasized that she's not suggesting he has it, but that he does display a few "red flags." My SIL told me earlier today,"The fact that she even SAID Asberger's suggets to me that she's thinking in those terms." I love the way you used the term, "defense mechanism" for "behaviors" in school. What a perfect description. I just don't see any of these behaviors at home. Not at all.

I think it's also important that you have pointed out that he may not only be in an inappropriate intellectual setting, but also in an inappropriate social setting. My husband's family is just horrified (in the past) that I have considered home schooling for several years now. But for some reason, I have felt compelled to look into it. I think mothers have a beautiful ability to follow intuition, even if we have no explanation. His family believes that the "social stimulation" of school is of utmost importance. I've always been defensive about this topic, because I believe that's a bunch of hooey, basically. My point is, if Jonathan is surrounded by other children he doesn't talk to anyway, how can this be socially stimulating? He's probalby the most socially developed child in his class! It explains why he gets along so beautifully, and interacts so imaginatively, with children two or three years older than him.

How do I find out about local support groups? I am in the Central Texas area.

Also, how do I start the process for having him tested?

Thanks so much for your information.

Allison

Allison,
The schooling question always seems to come up and there are never any perfect answers. There rarely seems to be a perfect fit for highly gifted children. So much depends on you, your child, and the options available in your area. You often have to trust your instincts. That being said about 90% of all the PG children I know are homeschooled. Mine is one of the rare ones that attends public school. You will want to check your district policies to see what is required to skip kindergarten. If you are seriously considering this option, do your research now, it may require some paperwork to be completed before the end of the school year.

I sent you a private message with information about support groups and testing professionals.

Summer

You're so right! A gifted kid's true peers aren't likely to be found in a same-age classroom. And the more gifted the kid, the older the true peers are likely to be.

I read something at the start of our educational crisis this year that really reassured me that gifted kids don't HAVE to have the social "stimulation" (if you can even call it that!) of public school (Hoagies, maybe? Sorry, but I can't recall the source!). The gist was that the school years--and the primary school years in particular--are the only time in a person's whole life where people are grouped strictly by age. Imagine being refused service at the store for 40-year-olds because you aren't old enough yet. Or imagine selecting who to invite to a dinner party solely because of how old they are. Ridiculous, right? But we assume that because it's convenient for schools to group kids by age, it's somehow better for the kids. But the welfare of the kids isn't a factor in that grouping, and grouping by age certainly isn't in the best interest of gifted kids any more than grouping them by some other arbitrary method that has nothing to do with education...like height!

People also intimate that this age-based grouping is somehow natural and "how it's always been." That's not true either. Once upon a time, not so long ago, we had one-room schoolhouses. When a child finished one primer, s/he went on to the next. If said child finished the whole curriculum early, said child read independently or went back to work on the farm or in the family business. (Unschooling, anyone?)

These points really reassured me when we decided to pull our DS6 out of his public school 1st grade a mere 6 weeks into the school year. Making the choice to pull him out was scary! I never thought we'd home school. But, like you, I kept drifting back to it. And it was the absolute right thing for this year. DS got happy again immediately. He has also had significantly MORE time and energy to devote to friendships since he isn't frustrated and bored all day long.

Homeschooling certainly isn't the only option for an extremely gifted kid, but in my experience, it's a good option...assuming you have the patience and the interest to do it. And I think it's actually less time-consuming for me than public school and all the busy-work I was having to force DS to do. At least now the time I spend on DS's education is a lot more fun!

Basically, I agree with Texas Summer: weigh your child's needs in total and recognize that there's probably no perfect solution. Don't let that discourage you. Do the best you can at any given moment and adjust as necessary. You can homeschool one year and do something else the next; you don't have to commit to a specific philiosophy and follow it to the bitter end. This is practice, not theory! (Getting that advice from a friend and mentor was VERY freeing!) Take it one day at a time if you have to. Adapt.

Finally, realize that for gifted kids, positive social interactions usually come out of a positive intellectual situation. A child who is unhappy and frustrated is rarely viewed by other kids as a good person to befriend. But a child who is happy and confident is going to attract friendships.

How to decide what is best in your case?:

1) Do your research: talk to other parents, gather whatever info you can find on the attitudes toward GT accomodations of the principal and teachers in the school, find out what testing the school will accept (and the answer may be none but their own!),

2) Weigh how hard the fight will be for things like early entrance to K and other accomodations. Consider possible future effects: for example, someone on this forum was talking about her kids being considered ineligible for an advanced program later on in the school career if they were home schooled anytime along the way. If that's a valuable program, then you'd have to factor that into your choice,

3) Then decide if the rewards will be worth the fight.

In our case, we could have escalated our advocacy to the principal and asked to grade- or subject-advance DS or to switch teachers...but the school system is VERY down on grade-advancement or even subject-advancement, and changing first grade teachers wouldn't have guaranteed a better situation. The fact is that all the first grade classes were going to be learning letters and DS would have been bored in any of them. Plus, if we were refused accomodation (as we very probably would have been!), then we would have had to go back to the original insecure and defensive teacher after having gone over her head--not ideal! In the meantime, DS's behavior was getting worse. All the pain and suffering we'd have had to go through to make relatively small changes to the situation just didn't seem worthwhile, so we just removed him from the school.

Now that our educational emergency has passed, we're really enjoying home schooling. The freedom is liberating! My husband compares DS to a race car that had been gathering dust in our garage. Now that we're taking him out for a spin on a regular basis, it's amazing what he can do! Great fun!

None of this helps much with your pre-K situation. I will say that a kind and caring teacher is sometimes enough, since the kind and caring teachers usually want the kids to be happy and to learn. But if she just can't see how bright he is, then you probably have to do something. At least stronger advocacy. Sometimes you have to decide if you want to be "that mom" or if you want to let your child be "that kid."

One of my biggest regrets for my son's education before this year was that I didn't push his teachers at his Montessori preschool harder. He mostly languished there because he refused to jump through their hoops. They didn't recognize his abilities, and it wasn't until my husband pushed them at our Jan. conference--saying exactly what I had been saying for 4 months!--that they tried some new things with him and realized, Oh! Wow! This kid is really smart! The second half of the year, he blossomed. I should have just embraced my "that mom"-ness in that situation! Live and learn...

That's enough outta me! I hope my ramblings help you somehow!

Kriston-

What a powerful and positive message! Very well said. I've been homeschooling my PG kids for seven years now, and I heartily agree with you. Homeschooling has allowed my kids to blossom in unexpected ways. Even my son with Asperger's Syndrome was able to make social gains once he was not using all his energy just existing in the crowded classroom environment. My social butterfly has no shortage of pals, and my in-betweener (introverted, but without any autism) also does extremely well. Homeschoolers are usually much more flexible about playing with kids both older and younger, and I feel this is a far more genuine representation of "the real world" that we are often accused of sheilding our kids from.

As Kriston pointed out, a happy kid is going to find it easier to make friends. For most gifted children, happiness goes hand in hand with getting an appropriate intellectual challenge.

best wishes-

I agree with everything that has been said about homeschooling. I agree that if your kid is unhappy, then they will not be good friend material and that homeschooling could easily be the solution. I know and have known many happy, well-adjusted, delightful homeschooled children.

What I want to write here is really for the people who stumble on this board BEFORE their children have a problem and are worried that their highly gifted child will be unlikely to fit into the public school system. That is certainly a possibility but not for certain. Some of us have had great experiences with public schools. My son has thrived there; he has met and befriended kids that I certainly never would have run into in our social circles, people from all walks of life (most of the homeschoolers in our area are pretty homogeneous). He has run for office, given speeches and performed in front of 500+ kids; he has volunteered as a reading aid in the Kindergarten class and made friends with both the Kindergarteners and the other adult aids. He edited the school newspaper and helped in the lunch room; he is now friends with the lunch ladies. He is confident and self-assured and he makes friends wherever he goes. We know we have been very lucky. It would have been hard to replicate this breadth of experience with homeschooling; although I know that we could have exposed him to other cool things if we were not locked into a public school schedule.

We have run into some glitches along the way and I expected to run into trouble when we switched schools this year, which is why I found this board. And it has really helped me plan some strategies and make a smooth transition. Sometimes, though, when I see people talking about the problems they are having, I think how lucky I was to have NOT found this board until we were well settled in public school. When DS started K, already reading at 5-6th grade level, I thought there might be trouble, but I went in with an open mind. I hope that others will be able to do so as well. Yes, there may be trouble, but it is not for sure.

Allison,

I know some folks have said that their kids have actually done better in a less academic pre-school for a part day. My DS was in a great YMCA preschool when he was little. They had swimming lessons, lots of books, a few computers with educational games (which DS Loved because he could work at his own pace), lots of free-form art materials, story time, great field trips, dance lessons, tumbling lessons,and music lessons. when DS was bullied (a couple of the kids liked to take his blankie and make him cry), the teachers worked with the "bullies" but they also helped DS learn skills that would make him less of a target. I think we owe some of his confidence and social skills to these kind perceptive teachers.

I'm wondering if you could find something like this where you are and then try to meet his academic needs at home by answering his questions and exporing his interests with him informally.

Hi Allison,
((waving wildly))
Your Aim is True!

Isn't it an incredible experience when all the dancing "not-right-nesses" that have been buzzing around your head suddenly explode into a whole new way of looking at the world?

And then that you were able to find us! And then that your first responder was a Sister Texan!

So yes I can tell that you are freaking out, but it sure looks like it's "in a good way" to me!

I don't like the idea of leaving a kid in a situation were the teacher thinks that "there is something wrong with him" or where kids are supposed to interact with eachother 100% of the time. ((gagging sounds))

I don't know if you have to pull him this week, or just start keeping him home 2 days a week while you do the reasearch you need to do. Is this the kind of school that has an "older classroom" that you can try him in?

If you are going to try homeschooling "for now" I would recomend the "unschooling" books - John Holt, so that you can follow his lead.

You can set up a phone consult with Dr. Deb Ruf, and get a consultation that will help you decide when to go for formal testing. I have a whisper of an idea that if you are going to pull him and homeschool him for a while, it's better to wait 4-6 months before testing, because -
1) He will score so much better when he gets to learn at his own pace for a while, any unaccomidated school would be a large waste of time, while I have heard over and over again that kids tested after years of Montessori score lower than expected on their achievment tests. This doesn't mean that they aren't learning something else that IS vitally important, just that the environment seems to depress achievement test scores.

2) You will know him more completely as a learner - know what questions to ask, know if the testing situation is accuate for him.

Texas has lots of rules on the books for accelerations - please contact your state gifted association and get all the info you can and try for that early enterance. Observe the first and second grade classes at your local public school.

BTW - you didn't say what month of the year your DS4 was born in. Is he close to turning 5 and being able to apply for YSP? Is he a "Summer Baby" in a town where Redshirting is possible, so being given a "defacto" gradeskip?

Big Smiles - Open Arms - and if you are old enough to have seen the Movie version of "Farenhight 451"
((that amazing scene where the main character meets all the folks who have memorized the books))

Sorry about the spelling - or lack therof -
Trinity

Yes, ACS, I agree 100% that ruling any educational option out without careful consideration is foolish. Especially a free one!

For us, one of the benefits to the lousy school system in our area (!) is that there exists a large homeschooling community consisting of people from a diverse social, economic, and racial background and a diverse range of belief systems. If the group were homogeneous, I'm not sure it would have been such a good choice for us. But the homeschooling group we belong to is actually FAR more diverse than the lily-white and almost wholly middle class suburban classroom he was in at the start of the year.

And I should add that our public school kindergarten year was wonderful for DS6. I think that was due to two factors: 1) K was only a half-day class, so DS mainly got social time there and had time to work on his projects at home, and more importantly 2) a FANTASTIC teacher who was warm and caring and who was excited by DS's gifts rather than threatened or annoyed by them. I can't say enough about how important the teacher is for a gifted child! A good one can make an intolerable situation work beautifully; a bad one can make even the best accomodations fail miserably.

I think our ideal situation would be half-day public school and half-day homeschooling, since that would take the pressure off me--an introvert!--to find social situations for my introverted child. But our school is not known for being cooperative with such individuated solutions. We'll see...

Either way, best of luck to you, Allison!