Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Update on pre-kindy meeting

As a little background, our DS5y1m will be starting kindergarten in the fall. A great friend told us to contact the gifted coordinator, who helped us in setting up meetings with the principal and psychologists. They gave DS achievement tests and had us do some social/emotional surveys. The testing psychologist wrote up a wonderful, very thorough report that described DS5 accurately, with age-appropriate social and motor skills and highly advanced academics. The recommendations were that he continue to work on social/emotional/motor skills with peers, and be given math/language at or above his level, and to meet with a speech therapist (DS doesn't do r's or soft g's and sometimes talks really fast or in a sing-songy voice). We met with the school psychologists, special ed coordinator, gifted coordinator, and principal to go over the results and recommendations.

First, the good stuff. The fact that we had this meeting in the first place is a huge positive. We got free testing and can use the results from the WJ-III to apply to DYS. We are extremely happy and grateful that the school district is spending this time with DS before he goes to school, and they seem willing to be pretty flexible. The principal will hand pick an out-of-the-box teacher with the gifted coordinator's input. This is actually probably all that matters, and I'm very happy about this.

But (of course there's a but...) Well, we got the first taste of the "importance of socialization" speech. I agree that it's important for DS to get along with everyone and learn to follow rules. However, I'm thinking that all the red flags they're seeing from observing DS in preschool (e.g, not responding to other kids, playing mostly by himself, making comments to no one in particular), are there *because* he's not with intellectual peers, and those behaviors aren't going to be cured by continuing to be with age-peers. DH told everyone that those behaviors are indeed very typical of HG kids, but I think that comment fell on deaf ears. At this point, we actually agree with the school in that we want DS to learn some things in kindergarten, such as handwriting, doing things by himself, etc. So it was a little discouraging to hear the socialization speech, and the "we don't generally believe in acceleration" speech, when we hadn't even asked for it (yet). (They have done a handful of subject-matter and less than a handful of full grade accelerations, so it's not unheard of.)

I asked if there were GEs or AEs on the test results, because 99.9% doesn't mean too much to me, and maybe not to some of the people in the room too. DS's AE ranged from 7.1 in math to 10 in one of the language subtests. I asked if there was a possibility of DS could go to other classes for math/language, or would he always have to be alone? It was pointed out that it probably wouldn't do much good to join the 1st or 2nd grade class anyway (this school goes from k-2 - there is another school that goes from 2-6). Which is probably true. On the bright side, they all agree that DS should not have to learn the basics of reading and math. The plan so far is to provide something different for him when the other kids are learning this stuff. What that is remains to be seen (which is rather worrisome), but we'll deal with that when school is closer.

More good things: We also get to visit the classroom of the teacher they have in mind. They also mentioned that we could choose to do half-days and just send DS for the non-academic stuff. It is good to have this option, but we really, really, really would love to have him learn in school. They are also happy to reevaluate how things are going at regular intervals.

I left feeling a little disheartened (because it's hard to hear all that stuff re: socialization), but in retrospect there were lots of positives. I am now wondering how to get the articles on the differences of socialization in HG+ kids to this group, and if it would make a difference at this point. Maybe things will be great when school actually starts, and I won't have to ever think of it again.

Another thing that i'm thinking in the back of my mind is that if we get through kindy ok (if he can get good and socialized), maybe DS can skip over to the 2-6 grade school for the next year where there are more opportunities for joining classes at his level.

DH - correct me if I'm wrong or missing anything.

Like your son, I thought K would be a complete waste of time for my son. I also got the big socialization speech. As it stands now, DS is in K very little, but I do think it was useful in some ways.
He learned "how to do school". He learned a bunch of things like using scissors and writing on the lines. He does Art and Music with K. Funny thing about the social skills... Through their own observations, the school determined that his social skills were fine in all of his classes with older classmates. His only issues were with agemates. However it was observed that he does fine with agemates at recess. Within the classroom he is usually alone.

It sounds like the school is at least trying to get it right and many adjustments will have to be made once school actually starts. But have faith and give it a little time. Schools are very slow to step outside the box, but will eventually make a move with a good argument.

Thanks for the support. I can only hope our DS's school experience approaches the success of yours so far. I think if DS gets the chance to learn with the older kids, he would be fine too. I mentioned during our meeting that DS's favorite person to be with is 3 years older than he is, and that he tends to get along better with older kids, but that didn't seem to have any effect.

I forgot to say that DS doesn't participate in things like songs during preschool, and he hates crafts. DH mentioned that he never did that as a kid either, so it's probably more of a personality thing than a socialization problem. But it makes me think that the stuff that's supposed to be "fun" in kindergarten won't be so fun for DS.

My DS6 tends to mimic whoever he's near. He will rise or fall to the occasion every time. The doctor told me that this is typical of HG, although DS hasn't been tested so we don't know that he's HG.

That is exactly how it was with my DD when she was in school - to a "T".

Ugh - the socialization speech. It�s so hard to sit through. It is just so patronizing. I need to restrain myself from saying in my most sarcastic voice... �really, gosh, I really had not even considered that there could be socialization issues.�
But, given that they do seem open to working with you, I think you just need so smile and get back to the topic at hand since DS is not being skipped this year and as of now socialization is not an issue -- don�t let them get distracted with the what if�s and the down the lines.... (I am sure you have worried about that enough!).
The other thing that bugs me about this whole... �they need to stay with their age mates for socialization� nonsense is that for my DD staying with her age mates seems like it is the most socially isolating thing to do. So while 16 other kids are doing one thing, she does another.... ?? How does that promote socialization?
Just an aside... have you thought about doing the CTY math program? I thought that might be one way for my dd to get math at her level while at preschool or at home. I don�t know much about it but I was thinking of giving it a try to see if DD likes it.

Ah, yes. DD5 was great at this! Sadly, preschool meant that she "fell" as she had no true peers there and the teachers only expected, the minimimum of what was appropriate for the ND age group development. So no challenge or encouragement there, either. Bleh!

Oh and someone told me once that DD5 didn't "go underground" as I thought, but rather she regressed to where she should be because her home environment had been highly stimulating all the years before she went to school. Emphatically, no! The only change was that she was surrounded by ND age peers and teachers who only expected the bare minimum - if that! for long periods of time, and she learned that she was different and "adjusted" to fit in, and even then she still spent 90% of her time in solitary endeavors. The other 10% was during circle time when she was required to sit in a group with the other kids but not actually interact with them - now that I think about it does *that* count as socializing? - and outside play. Regarding outside play, this usually entailed a few games of tag, but even then the teachers said she did her own thing for the most part, unless one counts the fact that she let herself be bullied "so the other kids would play with her". Double Bleh!

Okay sorry! Didn't mean to thread jack. The whole thing still irritates me and it's been a while.

Happily now we are homeschooling, things are much better and her skills are coming right back up to where they were previously and she's progressing ahead rapidly. It's sooooo good to have her back!

P.S. I am not anti-school or preschool in any way. I was severely disappointed in how it turned out for DD though, especially, since this was supposed to be one of the best schools in the area. I think if the right fit is found any school can be great! I hope it works out well for any one going that route.

Yes, that is pretty much what we did. There was in fact a little discussion of high school at the meeting, and I think we managed to pipe up about how we're not thinking about that far down the line yet, but now it's a little blurry.


Yes, I would like the answer to that question too! I found a good article about the differences of socialization in HG kids on the Davidson site, but it's a bit old. Anyone have a suggestion for a more recent one like this? http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10065.aspx
I don't know about CTY - I guess I thought it was for older kids. Also, we were a bit surprised about the math being so high, since it's not something we do. We read all the time, so the high verbal wasn't a surprise, but DS hasn't shown much interest in math. I guess he picked it up from his Jumpstart and video games and a bit from preschool.

The TWO other places in our society where age mates are put together are the feedlot and the "Lord of the Flies." We know what happens in both to those who don't fit in.

Check out the CTY website - they have math all the way down to pre-K.... if they get computer time as part of the K program, it might work well. Again, I know nothing about it, but I am thinking of trying it out with my dd. You have a lot of lead time, so perhaps he can try one course now at home so he can get familiar with the website and test out what level math might work for him prior to September. At least this way he will not end up with a two building problem down the line.

http://cty.jhu.edu/ctyonline/courses.html

A very encouraging update and good job getting all this set up ahead of time!

This will be nice to have in your back pocket if you need it.


Sounds like a smart plan.

We had the same kind of experience, and it's why I always sneer inwardly (silently!) when anyone asks me about "socialization" and homeschooling.

DS7 was developing bad social habits at school because he thought he was smarter/better than everyone because he was never challenged. He had really no friends left in 1st grade (though he had had lots of friends when he was more challenged in pre-K and K) because he bossed everyone around in class as a way of keeping his brain occupied. He missed recess nearly every day because of his acting out. He was angry and sad and lonely.

And this is better than homeschooling--even if he stayed home alone with me all day (which he doesn't)--because...??? This is positive socialization? Ugh!

Public school is pretty much always my first choice for kids. But sometimes our first choices don't work out. One size really does not fit all!

Honestly, I wish schools would get it that sometimes they have cause and effect backwards when it comes to behavior! I wish people in general understood that sometimes--not always--putting a GT kid with older kids is a plus in the socialization column!

<End rant>

I agree with everything inky wrote and apologize for blathering on about my DD in a previous post. I went on a tangent and never quite got back on track. I always wonder about "socialization", even in a play-based setting. Questions like: will the child go underground to fit in, etc? flitter through my mind.

I have to keep reminding myself, it isn't that the cup is half full or half empty. I need to be grateful that the cup *exists*!

No need to apologize! That is why I posted - to share and to hear about the experiences of everyone here and to commiserate. What you wrote is what I'm worried about too.

I wish that too. I try to remind myself that I knew nothing about anything GT-related until my crash course in the realm of HG, and that most teachers/prinicipals are trained to deal with the majorities, not the fringes. But since I do now know some of this stuff (like the behavior problems can be due to the lack of intellectual peers), it sort of felt like we were speaking to people from a different planet (ok, maybe just a different country) when they were telling us things about the importance of socialization to fix those "behavior problems."

I learn a lot from the tangents here and appreciate the windy path we take up the mountain.

Here here! Nicely put.

Inky - I forgot to say thanks for the encouragement in your earlier post. I am split about whether the meeting was more positive or negative, but I do so like to "always look at the bright side of life." (insert monty python whistling here)