Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Just FYI on the results of our meeting

This was our second GIEP meeting as we asked them to do a bit more testing to find out DS6 (next week!) levels.

Beforehand DW and I had basically decided that even though we weren't happy with the updated GIEP, we would take it and the pull out program (which is basically all that was offered). The primary reason for that was because we're over halfway through the year and at the moment it's the least-worst option. The testing that they did, did not compel us to ask for additional accommodations although the tests were not 100% consistent with out previous psychologist's tests.

We asked some questions and talked about our particular situation for about an hour. Occasionally it was a tense conversation, but overall it was very professional and both sides were trying to do what's right for DS. We didn't always agree with their assessment, and we politely told them when that was the case. For example, we exampled to the teacher that while his writing sample was on average (or maybe slightly below average) that was okay. Being gifted doesn't mean that you're gifted or a high achiever with everything. (Unfortunately we've had this conversation with her before; she gets real concerned with this.)

Some of the other items that came up with things like number sense. Apparently because he was given a problem like 11 minus 2 and did it using borrowing they didn't think he had number sense because he didn't count backwards two numbers. I told them that I understand that they are concerned that he knows the mechanics and not the meaning (and I told them that I disagreed!) but I also pointed out that based on our last meeting that they were asking for DS to demonstrate what he knows more often. So we encouraged him to do that for his teacher and that may be why he was doing the problem that way. (Believe me, in that way he's had number sense since ager 3).

In the end we re-communicated that our two priorities are that DS is happy and that he is learning new things. That our objective is not to have him write a novel or do calculus by age 9, but that he find academic challenges (so that he doesn't develop more perfectionism).

This was all that I think we were going to get this year so we're going to see how the rest of the year goes and DW and I will re-evaulated our school decisions this summer.

JB

Oh one other quick rant on all of this. I think the thing that bugs DW and I so much about dwelling on DS's writing is that he is writing right around first grade level. Considering that some things such as proper lettering in lower case is brand new to him as of this summer (we had to help catch him up to speed in preparation), he is doing alright. In fact, since he skipped into first grade, this is actually one area where we are at the correct academic level.

Funny how sometimes we see things differently.

JB

thanks for the update JBDad. I'm a bit foggy about your DS. Did he skip K?

LOL we cross-posted and you answered my question. I was thinking the same thing about writing...sounds like he is placed just write so why the teacher's concern? I was just reading to DS the Gifted Kid's Bill of Rights about not having to be gifted in everything. Perhaps the teacher should read it!

Your plan makes sense to me JBDad. You've accomplished a lot (grade skip, gifted program in 1st) in your first year of advocating. Baby steps, right? You'll have the summer to pump up your advocacy muscles for next year.

Hi JBdad, You and DW are doing a great job. I'm very glad DS was already skipped, but it seems like you and DS's frustration may be a signal that the skip has *run out* for math? The quote I just referenced from your post really reminds me of something I learned through this process at DD's school. It seemed to me that the teachers are very narrowly focused on skillset, which is not the same as aptitude. I think that's why I would get crazy at them for nitpicking and they would get crazy at me for referencing the IQ test over and over and over. It was really difficult for DD6 who has a fine motor delay. She couldn't write what she could think because of it, but the school is looking at output.

I've had much better luck now that they've done their own assessment, but IMO, it'll always be skill based output product that they are looking for. They are less concerned with what the child has the ability to do and only with what they see them doing. I understand what they are saying about number sense, but I'm guessing there are other ways to evaluate number sense than whether or not a child counts backward.

This I think is the real problem, at least for me. For many reasons(Time, money, resources) I've seen the teachers make these ability judgements based on one asessment. I seem to recall in first grade, the best readers were ranked by how fast they could read. The math was ranked by how fast the kids finished a three page mixed single digit addition and subtraction sheet. In combination with other resources, those are nice assessments, but to rely soley on them seems ludicrous. Yet that's what I saw being done. I have more stories, but I'll save them for later.

What we seemed to gravitate towards through the journey was basically assessing what they could offer in the best case scenario. We decided that we didn't actually want it, it wasn't a good fit. The damage that was being done outweighed the good. On the flip side, there were some great things they would miss out on if we pulled them totally. We reached a point that we could negotiate a great scenario in which we didn't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater and now they are benefitting from dual enrollment. A few people have asked how we managed to get where we are with the school, it's a tough district to crack. There are a lot of things that came into play, including luck. But I'd have to say, no matter how many things we had going in our favor, I don't think we would have had a good result if we had not been patient, persistent and polite. I think I used the term: "that's not acceptable" several times, but I never yelled it and I tried to say it nicely.

Keep doing what you're doing and continue to be even tempered and patient. But you should also know what you're fighting for and whether or not what they have to offer will solve your son's educational needs, KWIM?

Neato

Thanks Neato

JB

Well, they become more managable because we become more adept at managing how we react to them and also how we manage the people who say them. Am I interpreting what you said correctly, Dottie?

You did the right thing when you firmly and calmly handled the number sense issue. I think, honestly, most people crumble a little when they face a meeting that goes this way. Sometimes I wonder if it boils down to parents subconsciously needed validation from THE SCHOOL that their child is *that smart*; frankly that's a fatal flaw.

IQ tests are valid and if you've got one from a reputable tester/expert it's something the school needs to look at and consider.

Most teachers have seen the kid with the high iq who isn't doing anything special by jr. high. This is one of the factors when a teacher just blatantly refutes the IQ testing. They mistakenly assume that the test is faulty. I honestly think it's a lot harder to consistently perform above your abilities than below your abilitites.

The bottom line is there are a variety of reasons why you'll hit resistance when seeking more accomodations. Try and figure out what the real reasons are here, decide if you really want to go after it, if so then be confident-keep movin-and don't look back.

I really really do think you two are doing a great job.

Oh and Dottie, does that person realize that your DS most likely only graduate from high school at 16 if you artificially slow down his learning rate?!?!

Hi JB

Sounds like your moving ahead, its a constant battle I do belive they want whats best. The writing issue has some merit, if you look at how they do things in a lock step school program. By thrid grade certian basic skill sets must be in place. They have trouble seeing that all children may not fit well withing that picture. It is also true that a student that has dificulties writting may have dificulties in future subjects because this skill may hold them back. I use my own personal story, that I write extreamly poorly and find it to be a great chore. Had I developed a better writing skill set, I would have had things much easier in the upper grades. Our DS6 writes better then I ever did, and is learning to use that skill better. He also has a very good phonic teacher, even though it seemed very easy and below his ability compared to his reading level, he now has much better spelling and can work out words better then before. I was a sight reader, never learned any phonics and spell terrible. Also his math teacher is pushing timed times tabeles. DS6 understands the concepts and can Multiply and Divide, but not quickly. I see that knowing this quickly will help him with Divison, fractions, etc... Same with some numeber sense, he had some dificulty with numbers in his head like 328-192. You can do this quickly if you understand the number 328-200+8. Easy in your head, DS6 took some time to learn it this way as opposed to writing it down.
I am not siding with them, just pointing out that their not completly crazy. I still belive that most teachers do not know how to teach Gifted much less HG. They are stuck in their modalities that they have learned work for 95% of thier students, and when you have a 99.9, thier thinking does not match well. They also have to deal with (Espesially in K-2) that all parents kids are gifted, and the what are you going to do about it attitude. It can be hard to see correctly through all the other noise.
Keep up the great work, it is sad that all kids don't have parents that advocate for them as well as you and your wife do for your son.

I agree that you have to be polite and respectful. However, some school personnel interpret disagreement with any aspect of how they educate as disrespectful. It really helped me when I just accepted that there will be people who get angry with me because I'm disagreeing with them. ((shrug)) You just can't control how teachers and administrators will react, no matter how tactful and positive you try to be.

Thanks Edwin. Yes, during the meeting I was trying to point out that we see their perspective on things and in a lot of cases there is merit there. In some cases we don't agree 100% and that's okay. In other cases where we got comments like "he is working at grade level" we were completely okay with that because we believe then there is a good match.

No one at the meeting was intentionally being nefarious. I think you hit it on the head when most people are used to dealing with +/- 1 standard deviation of IQ (and to a extent, they are used to making accommodations for students at the lower end).

All good feedback guys, thanks. Although it sometimes feels like we're not making a lot of progress, it's nice to hear that relatively speaking we're doing pretty gosh darn well.

JB

I like to remember that I can't control how another person chooses to act/react; I can only control my own behavior.

Reminding myself that as long as I am being polite and respectful, I am not responsible for someone else's feelings really helps me in conflicts like these.

You're allowed your own thoughts and feelings, just as they are. Some people truly don't accept that premise. But it's the truth.

Over the last 24 months I had to work (professionally) on negotiating and people management skills. Let's say it's come in pretty handy over this school year.

Between this meeting and work today it felt like a whole week of thinking was crammed into 10 hours...

JB

Another really good point. For some (like your situation, Dottie?) it's just really the school's lack of knowledge of what to do. For others (like ours) it's not wanting to deviate from district "protocol". The approach would be different in each case. You'll know in time what the reason(s) is/are JB.