Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Should we just give up?

Hello, it's me again. A basket case as usual since this whole school thing began.
My husband spoke with the director of educational services and this is what he was told:

"talked to Audrey Cummings, director of psychology.
willing to do testing on James, everybody wants to know why; it'll tell us he's bright and won't change where he goes.

social/emotional results of kids who skip grades not good."

I just know that if they do test him, the evaluator most likely will have no experience with g/t, or 2E. Isn't that one of the most important aspects of testing-to have experienced evaluators?
Is that something we should demand? If testing is not going to accomplish anything-not even grade skipping, why should we bother with these idiots and put my son through all of this? How can an educational system be so backwards in their thinking?
We looked at the Ruf estimates, and conservatively, our son falls somewhere between levels 4 and 5-moreso, 4.
Does anyone have any ideas?

Have you pushed them to show you the studies that indicate poor social/emotional results? Have you provided them with the studies to the contrary? I would start with the fight to accelerate, if that is what you want, then let them test to see how far. It may be an arduous fight, but what is the alternative? No, you shouldn't give up.

No you shouldn't give up.

Can you do private testing? We had similar issues and concerns about behavior and emotional responses. We did private testing and got our son into first grade, skipping K. He is now in 2nd but in 3rd for math. It was the best thing we could have done for him. There are really no more behavior or emotional issues, other than "typical" OEs! It was a fight worth fighting because now the principal is on our side. He's the one that tested for the second acceleration in math. And our son isn't as advanced as yours sounds. I'd place mine at level 3.

Hi Ariadia,
Well - since you asked,
Yes, give up the idea of a law suit. To expensive - emotionally and time-wise.
Yes, give up if you can afford to homeschool. Level IV and V often really need homeschooling during the elementary years.

No, don't give up if they are willing to do testing at school for free and you need to watch your dollars - even a poorly done test might give you enough numbers to apply to YSP. Sometimes experienced testers can go back and look at the raw data and interpret it for you.

and
No, don't give up on asking the school to test now. I've heard of plenty of cases where the School says "No, No" until they see the actual scores and meet the real kid, and then they say "Ok, just this once." You many not get enough, but having a paper trail might help you down the road. Level IV and V kids are often easier for schools to notice than the more suble PGness of our Level IIIs.

This is a process. You will be kicking yourself for the things you do in the next 6 months, looking back from 10 years, but that goes with the "parenting a PG kid" territory. Bottom Line- try to only kick gently, ok?

Made a list of all the things that nurture you - then follow your list. Our children are often extra-perceptive of our own moods, so a little relaxation on your end should make the rest of you day go much better.

Love and More Love (because that is what it takes)
Trinity

Hi Trinity,

I've seen this mentioned a number of times, and forgive my ignorance, but what is "YSP"?

Thanks,
aria

DD, self taught reader at 3 yo, entered kindergarten this month and reads at a 4th grade level (school has not evaluated and does not recognize this). My husband and I are perceived as pushy parents who must be drilling our child.

Mtg today at schl was awful and I am frustrated. I know I need to have DD tested to support(prove?) the acceleration we know she needs, but are trying to find out where to begin.
Help.
Overwhelmed in Maine

Dear Bookworm,

I suggest trying to test privately if you can afford it--right away. It's been money well-spent for us. Otherwise talk to teacher and gifted department head immediately (they have timeclocks that start--30 days to do this, another 30 for the next referral, etc., it's probably different everywhere, but all that can end up to take 6 months or more here. Private testing (using district-approved tests) can cut that to a couple weeks. With test results go to principal and ask that she do a grade skip to at least get into a 1st grade class where they teach some skills. If you find 1st grade too tiresome, re-evaluate at Christmas.

Good Luck!

Thanks, Cym.

I know that documentation will mean much more to the school than my claims. Fortunately, we can afford private testing and will pursue this. I am now searching for a place to test her, but am hesitant to ask the school for suggestions.

Also, thanks for the info on the 30 day referral timeline. I was aware of this mandate with SPED, but not GT. Very helpful.

These forums are a new discovery for me and a great support after a very frustrating day.

Hi Bookworm!

Can your family doctor help you with a referral for private testing? If your school is not willing to do it, call your child's physician for info.

Aria

Great suggestion.

You know when someone is just not listening? DD's preschool had written a letter in the Spring re: unassuming nature, yet high level of ability, particularly reading. I also met w/ princ. and future tchr. At the time, I was pleasantly surprised at how receptive they seemed.

Now that schl has started my child is coming home with letter booklets and beginning bks with sight words "I" and "am." She cries in the morning when she realizes it is a schl day and bemoans the fact that her reading and writing time is gone (she used to spend part of every afternoon relaxing in her room reading Ramona bks, biographies, science bks, fairy tales). The teacher said that she knows DD reads much higher, but she is sending her home w/ these bks to fit in with the rest of the group. I informed her that this was not a positive (she was shocked) since DD is fully aware of her differences and the fact that no one else in K is reading chaper bks (preschl was much more socialization and not as much of an issue). The teacher then responded that even with these easier bks DD sometimes skips a page. I explained b/c she is bored out of her mind. There is no understanding that my child is already adjusting to the expectations of the classroom.

To top it all off, DD is compliant and a people pleaser. She is reserved and sits back and lets the class learn what they need to without and interruptions from her.

Thanks for letting me vent. I was not sure where to turn since I do not feel comfortable discussing these dilemnas with my local mom/friends.

Hi Bookworm,
Welcome. I'm so glad that you found us.

Did you share with the teacher that DD is crying in the morning?

Can you homeschool her, or let her go back to the preschool?

I'm glad you are aware of your daughers compliant demeanor. In my view it means that you have to be doubly vigilent. Ask yourself, if the teacher reported that she was throwing desks and biting other children, what level of action would I take, and when would I take it. Whatever your answer is, is my suggestion for the speed and seriousness with which you treat this.

Here's my take on testing. Testing is a wonderful way to get a perspective on your child, and to see if they can be expected to thrive long term with one or more grade skips. Testing is for you (and whoever else is on the parental team) to better "know" your child, and to hopefully get guidance as to what to do about your child's special needs.

Schools hate IQ and achievement tests. This is an oversimplification, but in general, a portfolio showing the child's skills and abilities is much more convincing than any IQ test.

Remember, that any communication with the school must be in writing - not verbal, not email. You are ahead of the game, in that you have already established a relationship with the Principle and the Teacher.

This is my guess as your best shot at getting her into 1st grade asap, which I am assuming is your goal. Look at the situation from the schools perspective. What are their issues? They want her to be happy and fit in.

First things first. If you are going back to the Principle, you now need the support of the teacher, or at least to let her know your plan. I would schedual a meeting, let her know that your daughter is crying in the morning and feels like a freak. You cry too, and let teacher know that you don't want your daughter growing up feeling like a freak - you want your daughter in first grade where she can feel normal and make friends. Key words are "cry" and "feel normal." You don't have to mention how smart she is - not an issue from the school's perspective since their mission is to fill identical empty vessels.

Then say, "I'd like your support to approach the Principal for a 6 week trial 1st grade placement. I believe my daughter will be much happier there." Teacher says yes or no. Meeting over.

Then you set up the meeting with the Principle, tears again if the date is more than 3 days away. If you aren't upset, or are willing to wait, then you must not really think there is a problem. As long as you are crying, no one will call you pushy.
I'm not suggesting that you fake tears - I'm suggesting that you openly show your feelings. At the meeting with the Principal, you repeat the "Crying child who feels like a freak, 6 week trial in 1st" pitch, and hand deliver a written version of your pitch.

Keep your verbal utterances very narrow. 30 words, repeated over and over is more effective than a rant. Crying shows emotional importance, ranting confuses people and makes them hate you. Be like a commercial for your program.

Your next step is researching alternate school situations, independent and homeschooling. Find out what are the legal requirements for homeschooling. It's usually very effective to keep your child out of school until the school is ready to give your plan a try, but in some states this will lead to the department of child protective services to land on your door - so get the facts and find out what type of state you are living in. You can call her in sick every day until they talk to you and agree to your plan.

Remember, even if I am correct, and you do everything right, they don't have to do what you percieve as the right thing. You have several things in your favor.
1) Your daughter is female, therefore less likely to be dateless due to being younger.
2) Your daughter is female, and often females will have good organizational skills, good enough to handle the demands of a higher grade.
3) Your daughter is female, so less likely to have handwriting difficulties that make her stand out amoung older children.
4) Your daughter is female, and the perception still exists that there are honorable ways for females to be popular even if they are not stars on the sports field. Being younger is going to be somewhat of a disadvantage in sports, for some children, although it doesn't turn out to be a big deal for many.
5) Your daughter is well behaved, and unlikely to make waves in any environment.

I'm the Mom of a son. The public school made the inverse argument of every one of the above. I would at least like you to be able to waltz in and get your grade skip. If not, you may have to do as we did and try the independent school route. You know, there is some truth to every one of the above arguments in our individual case. But all those potential problems didn't hold a candle to the path we were on.


Even though I'm female, I didn't have any of the traditional female skills -((pout))-except the first one - LOL! My spelling and handwriting are about the same level. I was early enteranced to K, and although that was a good start, it was no where near enough. Too bad for me, that was all there was. I can not imagine life without that early start. As you can see, I have a mind that can imagine being as agressive and confident as men are trained to be, so perhaps I didn't get a bad trade-off for poor spelling and ugly handwriting.

If you don't want a gradeskip, and think that you can make the teacher accomdidate your child, that's a whole different path to pursue - that's were the private testing, Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual, Genius Denied, etc come it. Wherever you are on your path is just right.

Love and More Love,
Trinity

Jill,
I am so glad to hear that your kids situations are better this year. Yippee!
Trin

I can't begin to thank you all for the insight. I felt very hopeless yesterday. I especially think the approach of concern will help overcome the perception of pushy parent, hopefully.

There are, however, a few points that I have yet to mention and that I think will work in my favor as we proceed, but I was so hoping that things would just work themselves out. I did mention earlier that I was in denial, right?

I am a former student of this school system (many moons ago) and was accelerated numerous times in subject matters. As luck would go two of these elementary teachers are still in the school system. I will be connecting with them this week to gather insight and am hoping that they can give legitimacy to some of my concerns.

In addition, I was a teacher for a number of years in a neighboring district. Since yesterday I have contacted a number of friends, particularly GT advocates, to help with assessment and evaluation support as well as approach suggestions. My husband laughed last night and said I have really rallyed the troops!

I do know to be careful not to appear as undermining the teacher and/or principal, especially since we, at least for the moment, we picture our three children attending this school system. In fact when picking up my daughter from school yesterday I made a point to connect with the teacher and let her know how we appreciated her time so early in the year , etc., etc. Kill 'em w/ kindness. Despite how she feels she did give in to our request and approach the 1st/2nd multiage about our daughter for reading. She said it is not finalized, but felt she could make it happen by Oct. 22 (once the K has gotten more of the routine down).

I still have many concerns about the lack of understanding of GT kids and am worried that she is looking to prove us wrong (based on a few side remarks in yesterday's conference), but am at least pleased that she is moving forward w/ our initial plan.

(Final ace up the sleeve that I hope not to have to use, but will if necessary - Superintendent and I received M.Ed. together in Ed. Administration and I have known him for 20+ years).

Oh BookW,
I'm so glad you are feeling better. Golly, You are amazingly well placed! I predict that once the denial wears off, you will be an wonderful advocate for your child.

Imagine, me reminding you to contact the classroom teacher first before going to the principal! LOL!

I do have more questions -
1) Do you, in your heart, want a grade skip or in class differentiation or subject acceleration?
2) How much of a difficulty would homeschooling be?
3) Do you currently consider yourself gifted, or were you "just an early starter?"
4) I suggested that asking for inclass differentiation for a Level III or higher was just asking too much (for most teachers) - does this match your observations of your peer classroom teachers?
5) Are you currently working outside the home? In a school system? Do you have any interest in following up on your M.Ed. degree?
6) Are you aware of homeschool co-ops and small NFP school that give every child an individualised educational plan. Do you have any interest in running one? I predict that if you created an environment where Level III and up kids age 3-10 could school in peace, that you would have folks relocate to be there. Look at the number of people who are moving to send their child to the Davidson Academy in Nevada!
7) Of course what I would really like to see is for you to get this accomplished through the local school system. I think you should start talking to the Superintendent now, not about your daughter, but about trying to get a flexible middle school program in place starting now, so that the kinks will be worked out by the time she gets there. I've long thought that a resource room housed in the High School where Middle School aged kids can go and return from High School level classes as they become ready, and work independently and with help as needed would be an excellent and cost effective way for academically able middle school kids to continue to develop academically during those "interesting" middle school years.

Smiles,
Trinity

Trinity,

I feel truly fortunate to have found this community.

To answer your questions:
1. I find myself facing old teaching assumptions (and myths told to be as a student) regarding grade skip. The Nation Deceived document and other research has been read and reread in my house and my husband and I are having our own revelations. With that said, I am torn. I am sure that my child needs a multigrade skip for reading. Because of her broad reading and interests, social studies and science would be beneficial, too. As far as math is concerned, I am not sure. I know that she could probably handle 1st grade math, but have not seen her explore this area much yet. We have taken the philosophy of feeding the machine. She basically leads the way into interest areas and we provide materials and exposure (insects, sign language, human body, animals, fairy tales, space, etc.). We are pursuing subject acceleration at this stage.

2. We have considered the option of homeschooling, but it is not feasible for us right now (two other little ones at home and my husband and I work albeit flexible schedules).
We had actually hoped that K would remain half day so DD would have her afternoon with us to pursue her own interests, but the school system went to full day K this year. I also hate to see school interfere with a child's education. LOL.

3. I was gifted. I was often sent up a level for part of the day, initially for reading, but then for math, too. I asked my mother about this recently. She never had a conversation with the school. All acceleration was teacher-initiated. My mother would have been too timid to ask. (In fact, I just found out that she never knew that I spent my eighth grade math class in the library studying algebra. Actually, reading Mon thru Thurs and on Fri I would do 5 assignments to turn in. LOL.)

4. Sadly most teachers and administrators can not even identify Level 3s from 5s from bright, hard working students. Differentiation and even acceleration has to take place with someone in the system that at least partially gets it (not easy, but they are there). Believe me, I have fought my battles. At one point, I had a 6th grade class, upper elementary so no possibility to grade skip subjects within the building. Some children needed basic math, some were grade level, but two were ready for algebra. The principal suggested just teach grade level and call it a day. After all, why make more work for oneself. Instead I worked with a couple of neighboring teachers, identified a few kids in their classes and taught the whole lot of them in groups, in addition to an extra algebra session once a week after school. This program sent kids on to above level math at the middle school every year. Amazingly, teachers weren't excited to have the system tampered with, but what a feat for these children (low socio-econ w/ few opportunities). And I was the GT admin's new best friend.
Bottom line - in class differentiation to most teachers means handing the child extra worksheets when they finish what everyone else is doing!

5. I left teaching seven years ago. I desperated needed a change and was planning to start a family. I am working in a completely unrelated field. As far as my degree, I loved teaching but the rest of it was draining. I enjoy focusing on my own "students" at home (3, at last count).

6. I have heard of the homeschool co-ops in passing, but know little about them. Are the NFP schools you mention similar to a type of charter school? (A former dream). I think there is a real need for the place you describe and have had people mention this to me, but again, I am just leaving my gifted denial state...

7. Great thoughts here. I will definitely have to work on a plan.

Seems I am a bit long winded in my response. Thanks for bearing with me.

What is the "Nation Deceived" document? It sounds like something I need to show to my mother, who is 100% convinced that grade-skipping is evil in all cases because it means a kid won't drive at the same time as his grade-level companions.

My husband and I have mixed feelings...

Go to www.nationdeceived.org to download the report. It considers research on acceleration and its effects, not just the assumptions that we are all told.

I hope you find it as helpful as we have.

Thanks! I'm downloading it as I type this, and I'm e-mailing my mom with the web address for the download. Maybe my husband and I will get less resistance from her about the decisions we're making--which may include future grade acceleration--if we have some evidence to back up our choices.

Seriously, I love this forum!

Kriston,
We love having you here! What a treat that you don't have to wander around "alone and in the dark" like I did!
Trinity

Good, you know where you are. I would rather you get an "Assesment -- IQ and Achievment test" than pursue subject acceleration just yet. I'm assuming that you mean "moved to 1st or 2nd grade" during reading. You could mean, given materials at her readiness level in her classroom. I'll call that "in-class enrichment." confusing, yes?

If you want her moved to a different room, then do it if you can do it without spending all of your "good-will capitol." Otherwise scurry to get the testing and see if it's worth your while. If you are trying to get the teacher to do things differently.....that sometimes works and sometimes doesn't - but it makes the teacher the bad guy, and she isn't. Your child isn't the bad guy either, of course, it's an educational philosophy that children like your daughter either do not exist or should go to private schools. You know that your daughter exists. I think the private testing will help you shed your previous indoctrination. If she taught herself to read at 3 and it's your dime, can you travel?

Have you read "losing our minds, gifted children left behind" by Dr. Deb Ruf? That may help in the meantime. Such an amazing experience to see your kid "fitting in" with words in books.

Feeding the machine is wonderful for homeschooling and afterschooling. I encourage you to keep going with this as long as you can. OTOH, School is very different, and for most schools, you want to set her up in the "least worst fit" situation and see what she and the school can figure out together. There's a thread here where we talk about all the amazing things that schools have done for our kids. It's true, schools have done so much, it's just that sometimes the price is way too high.

HTH,
Trinity

Do you remember much about how it felt to be sent up? My husband was also sent up, and had a bunch of friends go with him. To me it seems idea for at least a handful of kids to be doing the "chicken dance" together. DH says he was intimidated by the older children. When my DS11 did his skip, he felt comfortable with his new home grade, but intimidated by the "big kids" in Math. One of my brothers was subject sent up in Math, all throughout elementary school, until he got to 6th, the oldest grade in the school, where he just repeated 6th again. Good for you for fighting for your student's needs! Thank you. I'll bet very few have given you credit for all that work. Thank You.

Trinity

For what little it's worth...

I had a great experience with being "sent up" two grades in reading, personally. And no one else went up. Just me! I was a mature little girl, but I suspect it also helped that I had grown up playing with a neighbor who was 2 years older than I was. (She wasn't in the same class, but the regular exposure to an older girl probably helped me.)

Aside from the initial nervousness about having to leave my kindergarten room and walk across the playground to the elementary school building, I think darn near everything about it was good for me! I wound up having friends of multiple ages as I went through school, and that seemed perfectly natural to me.

I never felt intimidated by the older kids. Maybe a boy/girl difference there? I always felt like the older girls took me under their wings. No one ever behaved badly to me that I can recall. (And as mouthy and bossy as I was [am!], I would have stood up to them and/or told on them if they had been mean to me!)

My mother recalls my crying once when my kindergarten class left for some reason while I was at reading, so I returned to an empty classroom. But I don't even remember that happening, which makes me think that it wasn't as traumatic for me as it seemed to be at the time. It certainly didn't make me sorry I did it, not even at the time. It felt very natural for me.

And as a side-benefit...When I was a high school freshman, I dated a very nice, very gentlemanly senior boy and felt perfectly at home with him and his friends. Given the difference in maturity levels between freshman girls and freshman boys, I was really glad to date an older guy. Looking back, I wonder if I would have felt so sure of myself around his friends if I hadn't had the experience of being "sent up" through elementary school.

I finished the entire series of reading textbooks the school used with two years of school left to go. Rather than repeating, they got a couple sample texts that they had never ordered before and I did an independent study with them during 5th grade. When I finished those, I just read whatever books I felt like reading. That lasted all of 6th grade. No tests, no questions to answer...just me, a beanbag chair and all the books I could read. Heaven!

It's obviously easier to do this sort of independent work with reading than with math, but a kid can self-check problems. That's got to be better than repeating a grade! Yikes! I'd fight that tooth and nail!

It's utterly anecdotal, and it was 30 years ago or so, but I would say it was an almost wholly positive experience for me!

I'm glad to hear that things went well. Golly, if they did it for you, I would hope they would do it for your daughter!
T

Dottie,

Thank you for the suggested reading. I have seen this book recommended (Trinity, isn't this one of your favorites? :-) and am going to order on Amazon tonight.

Trinity,

You are all so supportive. This is just wonderful. What great ideas.

The K teacher is actually pursuing the request to have DD in either a 1st or multiage 1st/2nd for reading. I would really like to hear thoughts on both. I originally was thinking that a multiage setting might be good b/c maybe they would have more of an opportunity to accelerate. Of course to make matters more interesting, I just met with a former elementary teacher of mine who still teaches here. In addition, she had a HG daughter go through the system a number of years ago. At the meeting, she said she would not recommend multiage. Her impression is that they teach down not up. Parents in the area feels differently. Does anyone have any thoughts here? She was also not very enthusiastic about the multiage teacher but suggested a self contained classroom. Any thoughts?

Also, the K teacher has invited me to observe tomorrow morning. My teacher/friend said to use the opportunity to see where some advancement/enrichment could easily fit in and feel free to suggest it. She said DD's K teacher seems to be someone who has opportunities for extensions in writings, etc. She said let a few more weeks go by, begin the reading acceleration, and allow the teacher a chance to get to know DD. Her abilities will become apparent to the teacher and we can continue to develop a plan if necessary.

In terms of her own daughter she said she and her husband always felt that school would not be her primary place to learn. Interesting thought from a teacher. :-)

Trinity and Kriston,

Subject acceleration for me was always positive. I grew up in a neighborhood with a large number of children so I think I was used to have friends at different ages. Also, our town is fairly small (smaller 30 years ago even). I never felt intimidated. Kriston, maybe it is a girl thing. I am not sure.

I think my daughter would be okay with it, too. We have a large extended family and a lot of exposure to children at different ages. Older children do not intimidate DD. If anything, she tends to migrate to them.

((big smile))
I'm so glad!
Honestly, an excellent teacher can be wonderful, so I would shop for the teacher rather than the name of the placement. I'm looking forward to your report from the observation experience. I'm also hoping that you go for the private testing.

Kinda sad about your teacher/friend's daughter. Interesting what we females are willing to put up with....

Trin

I would agree that the teacher probably matters more than the classroom setup. If the teacher isn't on board, nothing else will really matter. A teacher not willing to go the extra mile will torpedo the best of arrangements, but a teacher who wants to educate your child will do so even in the worst of situations.


Sad commentary on the state of gifted education in our schools, but also highly accurate, I'm afraid. My father was opposed to our homeschooling 6yo DS because he felt we should be enriching his experience all the time--basically homeschooling every day on top of DS's 7 hours of school! Another vote from an "old-timer" who felt school wasn't where gifted kids would learn, but that it was necessary nevertheless. (And when would he play, exactly?)

DH and I finally concluded that this was a stupid way to look at things. If school isn't for learning, and if we can arrange social experiences for our kids outside of school, then why exactly is school supposed to be useful again?

The big argument for school--and the argument we bought right up until it was our kid going through it--was that gifted kids have to learn to deal with the bad teachers (bad bosses, bad customers, etc.) of the world. Our problem: do they need to learn at age 6? Or could that particular strand of learning wait until they've matured enough to stand up for themselves?

We decided it could, indeed, wait, and that school should, indeed, be filled with the other kind of learning. For whatever that's worth...

Interesting point, however, I believe that a good school setting can offer more than homeschooling on two fronts.

1) It allows the parents to have a different, purely supportive role in the education.
2) If offers numerous "character building" experiences to the non-self starting kide who, when they finally get a reasonable placement, learn how to push themselves. Last night was tantrum time over homework that looked overwhelming. It was one of those growing-tantrum that I was so glad we could be together for - DS11 was (eventually) really pleased to hear that I had to go through this when I was alone at college without support and that he gets to go through this with me. Obviously, if your kid is wonderful at joining competitions or setting big goals for themselves and following through, this isn't going to be an issue. But I suspect that most kids are more like my DS, wanting to quit when the crunch comes.

I've seen wonderful homeschooled teens that don't quite trust themselves to be able to handle themselves when times are tough, because they hadn't had so many opportunities to face that particular struggle. Learning can be a joy, but often, the joy comes after great struggle, when looking back at the accomplishment. This is the biggest problem with underplaced kids - then never have chances to build self esteem by trying something that they had initally judged to be 'too hard.'

Am I saying that you shouldn't homeschool? I am not. If homeschooling is what's best for your family you should do it. If homeschooling is the only way to heal a damaged child, you should do it. If homeschooling is the only way to get a "reasonable fit" academically, you should do it.

But I think that there are better arguments to make for a reasonable-fit school than the "learn to deal with difficult people" argument.

Is there any argument to be made for a poor fit-school? Yes. There really are times in life when things other than the child's best interest have to "win." Lots of us grew up this way, and many of us have found ways to thrive. It's just that the social, emotional, and intellectual price is high - I wish none of us had had to pay it.

Thanks for giving me interesting things to think about today.
Trinity

A good school fit is worth its weight in gold. I am 100% in agreement there.

But sticking it out when there's not a good fit is, I have concluded, not necessarily good to do...especially as early in the school career as my DS6 is.

For the record, if you had told me a month ago that I would be representing the homeschooling point of view in a discussion, I'd have snorted. I am wed to no particular form of education beyond what works for a particular child at a particular time. I was public school all the way, and until we had trouble with the public school, pubic school was what DH and I had planned to do with both our kids. I thought homeschoolers were mostly either religious nuts or hippies (no offense intended to any religious nuts or hippies in attendance! )...right up until the day we decided to home school!


Agreed. I miss that already. This is probably the best point against homeschooling I've ever come across, and this is the first time I've ever seen/heard it represented.

Truth be told, I looked forward to the time when I could send my kids off to school and I could be a helper, not a teacher. I already know that this year is definitely going to be a learning experience for me, as I try to figure out how to challenge him without trying to control him. It's a delicate balance, and not one I'm likely to get right very quickly...


Interesting. I think I was one of those underplaced kids for whom school drummed out the ability to set goals and see them through. I was so used to coasting and never being challenged that it wasn't until I was several years out of graduate school that I rediscovered my love of pursuing a difficult goal with dogged fervor.

Even as early in the process of homeschooling as we are, I'm pretty sure I push my DS6 much harder to keep trying--even when it's difficult for him--than his teachers ever have. (As I hinted at earlier, my worry is rather that I may push him too hard, when his foot-dragging is really a sign that he's learned all he needs from a particular event.) His other teachers let him leave virtually anything he wants unfinished. I tend to require that he stick with it--or take a break and then come back to it--even though it might take him practically forever (!) to finish. So I would argue that in our particular case, homeschooling is doing a much better job of teaching him "sticktuitiveness" than public school did...


Not to be argumentative, but "Lots of us grew up this way" doesn't seem very persuasive to me. I can't help thinking of the eternal parents' retort: "If everyone jumped off a bridge..." Just because I suffered through a system that isn't made to teach gifted kids, does that mean my kids should have to suffer through it, too? To what end?

You say there are times in life when other things besides the child's best interest have to win. I guess I (someone who's new to all of this) want to ask you (someone who's been in the thick of this issue for a while now)...When are those times? When in a child's education should other things besides the child's best interest take precedence? And what exactly are those things that should take precedence?

This isn't a series of rhetorical questions. I'm looking for answers! I value your opinion, Trinity, and I think I need to hear your point of view on this, for my own education on the topic...


Right back at you!

I suspect that a great deal of my time in the coming year is going to be spent trying to decide what to do with DS6 for next year. More homeschooling? A private gifted school, which may not be much better about giving him what he needs and will cost a small fortune? (More research is needed, both into the school and into my son's abilities, before I'll have an answer there...) Back to public school? With or without grade/subject advancement?

I hope you'll allow me to discuss/debate this with you as the months go by and decision-making time looms closer. My parents oppose homeschooling in all cases, and DH tends to agree with whatever I say when it comes to the kids' education. (Not as nice as you might suppose...I used to teach argumentative writing, and I now NEED argument to think clearly on a subject!)

Anyway, I hope you don't mind that I'm picking your brains! I'm gaining so much from you all!

Thanks!