Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Should we just give up?

Do you remember much about how it felt to be sent up? My husband was also sent up, and had a bunch of friends go with him. To me it seems idea for at least a handful of kids to be doing the "chicken dance" together. DH says he was intimidated by the older children. When my DS11 did his skip, he felt comfortable with his new home grade, but intimidated by the "big kids" in Math. One of my brothers was subject sent up in Math, all throughout elementary school, until he got to 6th, the oldest grade in the school, where he just repeated 6th again. Good for you for fighting for your student's needs! Thank you. I'll bet very few have given you credit for all that work. Thank You.

Trinity

For what little it's worth...

I had a great experience with being "sent up" two grades in reading, personally. And no one else went up. Just me! I was a mature little girl, but I suspect it also helped that I had grown up playing with a neighbor who was 2 years older than I was. (She wasn't in the same class, but the regular exposure to an older girl probably helped me.)

Aside from the initial nervousness about having to leave my kindergarten room and walk across the playground to the elementary school building, I think darn near everything about it was good for me! I wound up having friends of multiple ages as I went through school, and that seemed perfectly natural to me.

I never felt intimidated by the older kids. Maybe a boy/girl difference there? I always felt like the older girls took me under their wings. No one ever behaved badly to me that I can recall. (And as mouthy and bossy as I was [am!], I would have stood up to them and/or told on them if they had been mean to me!)

My mother recalls my crying once when my kindergarten class left for some reason while I was at reading, so I returned to an empty classroom. But I don't even remember that happening, which makes me think that it wasn't as traumatic for me as it seemed to be at the time. It certainly didn't make me sorry I did it, not even at the time. It felt very natural for me.

And as a side-benefit...When I was a high school freshman, I dated a very nice, very gentlemanly senior boy and felt perfectly at home with him and his friends. Given the difference in maturity levels between freshman girls and freshman boys, I was really glad to date an older guy. Looking back, I wonder if I would have felt so sure of myself around his friends if I hadn't had the experience of being "sent up" through elementary school.

I finished the entire series of reading textbooks the school used with two years of school left to go. Rather than repeating, they got a couple sample texts that they had never ordered before and I did an independent study with them during 5th grade. When I finished those, I just read whatever books I felt like reading. That lasted all of 6th grade. No tests, no questions to answer...just me, a beanbag chair and all the books I could read. Heaven!

It's obviously easier to do this sort of independent work with reading than with math, but a kid can self-check problems. That's got to be better than repeating a grade! Yikes! I'd fight that tooth and nail!

It's utterly anecdotal, and it was 30 years ago or so, but I would say it was an almost wholly positive experience for me!

I'm glad to hear that things went well. Golly, if they did it for you, I would hope they would do it for your daughter!
T

Dottie,

Thank you for the suggested reading. I have seen this book recommended (Trinity, isn't this one of your favorites? :-) and am going to order on Amazon tonight.

Trinity,

You are all so supportive. This is just wonderful. What great ideas.

The K teacher is actually pursuing the request to have DD in either a 1st or multiage 1st/2nd for reading. I would really like to hear thoughts on both. I originally was thinking that a multiage setting might be good b/c maybe they would have more of an opportunity to accelerate. Of course to make matters more interesting, I just met with a former elementary teacher of mine who still teaches here. In addition, she had a HG daughter go through the system a number of years ago. At the meeting, she said she would not recommend multiage. Her impression is that they teach down not up. Parents in the area feels differently. Does anyone have any thoughts here? She was also not very enthusiastic about the multiage teacher but suggested a self contained classroom. Any thoughts?

Also, the K teacher has invited me to observe tomorrow morning. My teacher/friend said to use the opportunity to see where some advancement/enrichment could easily fit in and feel free to suggest it. She said DD's K teacher seems to be someone who has opportunities for extensions in writings, etc. She said let a few more weeks go by, begin the reading acceleration, and allow the teacher a chance to get to know DD. Her abilities will become apparent to the teacher and we can continue to develop a plan if necessary.

In terms of her own daughter she said she and her husband always felt that school would not be her primary place to learn. Interesting thought from a teacher. :-)

Trinity and Kriston,

Subject acceleration for me was always positive. I grew up in a neighborhood with a large number of children so I think I was used to have friends at different ages. Also, our town is fairly small (smaller 30 years ago even). I never felt intimidated. Kriston, maybe it is a girl thing. I am not sure.

I think my daughter would be okay with it, too. We have a large extended family and a lot of exposure to children at different ages. Older children do not intimidate DD. If anything, she tends to migrate to them.

((big smile))
I'm so glad!
Honestly, an excellent teacher can be wonderful, so I would shop for the teacher rather than the name of the placement. I'm looking forward to your report from the observation experience. I'm also hoping that you go for the private testing.

Kinda sad about your teacher/friend's daughter. Interesting what we females are willing to put up with....

Trin

I would agree that the teacher probably matters more than the classroom setup. If the teacher isn't on board, nothing else will really matter. A teacher not willing to go the extra mile will torpedo the best of arrangements, but a teacher who wants to educate your child will do so even in the worst of situations.


Sad commentary on the state of gifted education in our schools, but also highly accurate, I'm afraid. My father was opposed to our homeschooling 6yo DS because he felt we should be enriching his experience all the time--basically homeschooling every day on top of DS's 7 hours of school! Another vote from an "old-timer" who felt school wasn't where gifted kids would learn, but that it was necessary nevertheless. (And when would he play, exactly?)

DH and I finally concluded that this was a stupid way to look at things. If school isn't for learning, and if we can arrange social experiences for our kids outside of school, then why exactly is school supposed to be useful again?

The big argument for school--and the argument we bought right up until it was our kid going through it--was that gifted kids have to learn to deal with the bad teachers (bad bosses, bad customers, etc.) of the world. Our problem: do they need to learn at age 6? Or could that particular strand of learning wait until they've matured enough to stand up for themselves?

We decided it could, indeed, wait, and that school should, indeed, be filled with the other kind of learning. For whatever that's worth...

Interesting point, however, I believe that a good school setting can offer more than homeschooling on two fronts.

1) It allows the parents to have a different, purely supportive role in the education.
2) If offers numerous "character building" experiences to the non-self starting kide who, when they finally get a reasonable placement, learn how to push themselves. Last night was tantrum time over homework that looked overwhelming. It was one of those growing-tantrum that I was so glad we could be together for - DS11 was (eventually) really pleased to hear that I had to go through this when I was alone at college without support and that he gets to go through this with me. Obviously, if your kid is wonderful at joining competitions or setting big goals for themselves and following through, this isn't going to be an issue. But I suspect that most kids are more like my DS, wanting to quit when the crunch comes.

I've seen wonderful homeschooled teens that don't quite trust themselves to be able to handle themselves when times are tough, because they hadn't had so many opportunities to face that particular struggle. Learning can be a joy, but often, the joy comes after great struggle, when looking back at the accomplishment. This is the biggest problem with underplaced kids - then never have chances to build self esteem by trying something that they had initally judged to be 'too hard.'

Am I saying that you shouldn't homeschool? I am not. If homeschooling is what's best for your family you should do it. If homeschooling is the only way to heal a damaged child, you should do it. If homeschooling is the only way to get a "reasonable fit" academically, you should do it.

But I think that there are better arguments to make for a reasonable-fit school than the "learn to deal with difficult people" argument.

Is there any argument to be made for a poor fit-school? Yes. There really are times in life when things other than the child's best interest have to "win." Lots of us grew up this way, and many of us have found ways to thrive. It's just that the social, emotional, and intellectual price is high - I wish none of us had had to pay it.

Thanks for giving me interesting things to think about today.
Trinity

A good school fit is worth its weight in gold. I am 100% in agreement there.

But sticking it out when there's not a good fit is, I have concluded, not necessarily good to do...especially as early in the school career as my DS6 is.

For the record, if you had told me a month ago that I would be representing the homeschooling point of view in a discussion, I'd have snorted. I am wed to no particular form of education beyond what works for a particular child at a particular time. I was public school all the way, and until we had trouble with the public school, pubic school was what DH and I had planned to do with both our kids. I thought homeschoolers were mostly either religious nuts or hippies (no offense intended to any religious nuts or hippies in attendance! )...right up until the day we decided to home school!


Agreed. I miss that already. This is probably the best point against homeschooling I've ever come across, and this is the first time I've ever seen/heard it represented.

Truth be told, I looked forward to the time when I could send my kids off to school and I could be a helper, not a teacher. I already know that this year is definitely going to be a learning experience for me, as I try to figure out how to challenge him without trying to control him. It's a delicate balance, and not one I'm likely to get right very quickly...


Interesting. I think I was one of those underplaced kids for whom school drummed out the ability to set goals and see them through. I was so used to coasting and never being challenged that it wasn't until I was several years out of graduate school that I rediscovered my love of pursuing a difficult goal with dogged fervor.

Even as early in the process of homeschooling as we are, I'm pretty sure I push my DS6 much harder to keep trying--even when it's difficult for him--than his teachers ever have. (As I hinted at earlier, my worry is rather that I may push him too hard, when his foot-dragging is really a sign that he's learned all he needs from a particular event.) His other teachers let him leave virtually anything he wants unfinished. I tend to require that he stick with it--or take a break and then come back to it--even though it might take him practically forever (!) to finish. So I would argue that in our particular case, homeschooling is doing a much better job of teaching him "sticktuitiveness" than public school did...


Not to be argumentative, but "Lots of us grew up this way" doesn't seem very persuasive to me. I can't help thinking of the eternal parents' retort: "If everyone jumped off a bridge..." Just because I suffered through a system that isn't made to teach gifted kids, does that mean my kids should have to suffer through it, too? To what end?

You say there are times in life when other things besides the child's best interest have to win. I guess I (someone who's new to all of this) want to ask you (someone who's been in the thick of this issue for a while now)...When are those times? When in a child's education should other things besides the child's best interest take precedence? And what exactly are those things that should take precedence?

This isn't a series of rhetorical questions. I'm looking for answers! I value your opinion, Trinity, and I think I need to hear your point of view on this, for my own education on the topic...


Right back at you!

I suspect that a great deal of my time in the coming year is going to be spent trying to decide what to do with DS6 for next year. More homeschooling? A private gifted school, which may not be much better about giving him what he needs and will cost a small fortune? (More research is needed, both into the school and into my son's abilities, before I'll have an answer there...) Back to public school? With or without grade/subject advancement?

I hope you'll allow me to discuss/debate this with you as the months go by and decision-making time looms closer. My parents oppose homeschooling in all cases, and DH tends to agree with whatever I say when it comes to the kids' education. (Not as nice as you might suppose...I used to teach argumentative writing, and I now NEED argument to think clearly on a subject!)

Anyway, I hope you don't mind that I'm picking your brains! I'm gaining so much from you all!

Thanks!