Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Help please!

Hello,
We are new here, and I apologize that this may run a bit long.
We have a 5 year-old son, and from our own research, the opinion of our doctor and that of our son's pre-school teacher, we believe him to be potentially gifted. He has not had a comprehensive evaluation, but we do know that he reads at about a fifth grade level and math/science/social studies are about 3rd grade. Our school district doesn't seem to be able to teach even a typical child and they have no gifted/talented testing services available. In fact, their entire attitude towards us to date is, "you want a cadillac and all we have to provide is a ford". This is exactly what was said to my husband and myself, by the director of educational support services for our local school district. We live in New York state, and it is our understanding-and please correct me if we are wrong-that even though g/t falls under the umbrella of "special ed", g/t services are not mandated by law. So, our public school is saying they have nothing for our son, and they aren't required to provide anything anyway. Of course, money is the issue. If it wasn't, we'd have him in another district, or private school in a heartbeat. We've also been advised that FAPE-free/appropriate/public/education- may possibly be our saving grace, if we have data to support our claim and decide to move against the district legally. I know that even if he is "tested" by the city district, that it will not be done properly. I was told by a co-worker who evaluated and taught g/t for years that our son is most likely twice exceptional, and we're afraid that the emotional will override the potential for achievement, and he will be labeled as a behavioral problem. What do we do? Where do we turn? Should we threaten a lawsuit? Has anyone ever been in our situation? Our son did not start school yet and we feel horrible about this, but we can't place him in a school where only 1/3 of the students meet the state's minimum requirements.
Someone please help us help our little boy.
Thank you.

Wow! That cadillac comment sounds strangely familiar... I wonder where educators get this stuff! Our circumstances are somewhat different, but we were told we were "not entitled to a Cadillac" when we requested accommodations for our daughter's life-threatening peanut allergy. My husband told me later that he wanted to say, "Well, all we're asking for is seat-belts in the Yugo!" Fortunately, he thought the better of it.

My guess is that if GT programs are not mandated by state law, you will not get very far legally (especially if money is tight!)

Have you done any reading about acceleration? It may be something that your district would consider in your son's case because it wouldn't cost them anything.

Why does your co-worker think your son is 2E? Do you think there is any basis for that? If he is, you may be able to get an IEP for him which could include accommodations for giftedness.

If you really feel that negative about your school district, your best option may be to move to an area with better schools.

Cathy

Thank you for responding.
We tink he may be 2x because their have been escalating emotional issues this past summer. When he went for his kindergarten screening, we were told by the evaluator that these issues are probably connected to his potential giftedness. This belief was confirmed by my co-worker.
Unfortunately, moving is not an option.

Dear Ariadia,

After kindergarten screening, do they intend to do a full diagnostics (IQ)on him? If not, it might be something for you to pursue independently. With that, you might consider grade skipping (I've found the younger you do it, the easier it is for the kid).

My personal philosophy is that you should work tirelessly with the school administrators in a non-adversarial manner to negotiate what you want...and THEN threaten to sue (half-joking).

Hi Ariadia,
Is homeshooling (by yourself or a handy neighbor or family member) an option?
If not, it sounds like the next step is to request that the school formally access him for emotional issues and accademic readiness. Put it in writing, in the mail.
As for legal advice, contact your state gifted association for any local parents who have used the legal system. Here's a link to all the US state asssociations: http://giftedkids.about.com/od/wheretofindhelp/a/state.htm

New York's is http://www.agateny.com/
Contact them for any ideas they may have, local conferences, or names of local parents who may have suggestions. Some states have a gifted contact person at their department of education. Here's the link to yours - http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/ciai/gt.html

And the link to the actual laws - http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/ciai/gt/gtreg.htm

Here are to testers listed on Hoagiesgifted.org page - go there to read the caveats: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/psychologists.htm

New York
Julia Osborn
Clinton St., 1K, Brooklyn, NY 11202, phone and fax: (718) 522-4824

Patricia Schuler Creative Insights
1 University Pl # 5, Rensselaer, NY 12144, phone: (518) 257-2018

You might also like this link - http://eservices.nysed.gov/vls/welcome.do;jsessionid=950ad80930e2f4549bc1f45d46be8119acb835dd873a.e38KbNaQahmNc40Mah8Pb3mSah0Ke6fznA5Pp7ftolbGmkTy
it's to a site that promotes education and Internet, and containes lots of resources such as sample curriculums and standards, so you can peek behind the scenes and see what the teachers are supposed to be teaching in the various grades. The point is that a "Ford" is a workable form of personal transportation - you aren't asking for a Cadillac, you are only asking for a Ford that is in working condition. For you that might mean subject acceleration, or grade skips. Next time they try that line, say, "No we are looking for a Ford that has an engine attached! The Ford you are offering may run for most of your children, but if my child tried to use it one would soon find that it was stalled. Everyother child's Ford has an engine - why are you suggesting that my son doesn't need an engine in his Ford? That isn't fair. You are a school - schools have a calling to teach children - you need to put my child in a classroom where the teacher is teaching material that he doesn't already know."

Contact everyone above and see what shakes out, oK?
Meanwhile, if you want tip on handling those "emotional issues" start a new thread and we will see if we can offer any suggestions.
Best Wishes,
Trinity

I think the issue isn't whether your son is gifted, but more "how gifted is he?" Have you read up on designated levels of giftedness? There's the traditional MG, HG, EG, PG and then there are "Ruf Estimates" which go from level one to level five. See hoagie's gifted for more detailed information on these.

If he's already multiple years ahead across the board before even setting foot in school, I agree with Trinity that homeschooling might be a good choice. If he does have some 2e stuff going on, home is clearly a place where he can get around his challenges and learn.

Two of my own kids started out in school, and after we brought them both home to learn, we never even considered trying school for the younger kids. If Davidson Academy landed in our backyard, we'd probably enroll, but short of that, few schools will be able to individualize as well.

good luck!

well, 3 weeks ago at screening, we were told to ask for g/t testing. 3 days ago, we were told there was no g/t for this district. I've started to hint at the idea of moving against them legally under FAPE. In fact, I just got an email from a county agency that deals with g/t, and was told that the director of the district's MAP-major achievement program-would like to meet with us to "sort things out". MAP is our district's answer to gifted programs, but it doesn't begin until the fourth grade. Our district believes that no child can be tested for true giftedness until then. If that's the case, then why do so many of our surrounding districts have g/t programs that start in kindergarten and why are so many of the tests specifically designed for pre-school, or early elementary age. We will meet with this woman, but we are going in with the attitude that she will try to sell us on the district the same as the educational support services woman did. wow-didn't mean to dump all of that on you. sorry. thanks for responding!

Thank you for all the info. Some of those sites, we were familiar with, some not. My husband and I are trying to sort through any and all info that we get.
i really don't think homeschooling is going to work for my son. I know it wouldn't work w/me-even though I teach pre-school children w/special needs. My son just loved school. He was in a full day pre-school program for a full year and he thrived on it.
He took ownership and pride and still talks lovingly about his friends, teachers and the school.
So, we continue to fight. I'm going to use your "engine" concept the next time we meet with the city. Thanks again!

When you sit down with your School Person, consider asking about a skip of K, and going right into 1st grade. Get someone from the daylong preschool to write a letter discribing the program - including it's length and academic content, and his reaction to it, including his good behavior. School are really into social skills! You can alway slip him back to K, or repeat 1 if it doesn't work out, or if his actual testing comes back not supporting the gradeskip (unlikely)

Try saying 30 times, "He's just old for his age." with a little shrug and smile.

It would be ideal if you could "sit in" on a K, and a 1st and a 2nd grade classroom. You could
a- see if you can picture your child in that setting
b- start snooping for who are the teachers who could appreciate and lead him.

What is going on with the emotional issues. Did they take place at his preschool? Escalating emotional issues in a preschool, or early elementary context is so commonplace, that we don't usually even talk about them on the 2E page - it's often just a normal side effect of a certian level of giftedness in an unaccomidated classroom! But sometime times there sure is more.

BTW - schools that are "modest" are usually aware of this and MORE accomidating with grade skips and subject accelerations than schools that "have a good reputation." go in with an open mind, ok?

Love and More Love,
Trinity

Hi Lorel,
I checked out the ruf estimates and had my husband do the same, without giving my opinion as to where our son fell. We both came back with close to the same answer-somewhere between level 4 and level 5. Thank you for this info because now we are more determined then ever to have him "officially" evaluated and we are not going to settle for the sub-standard local school.

Hi Dottie!
Hey, maybe we will be the landmark case...I wish!
I do know that here, once the request has been made in writing, the school district has 30 days to conduct testing.
I lived in the Lehigh Valley for some time, do you mind if I ask what part of Pa. you are from?