Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Any suggestions appreciated for behavioral issues.

If this has been talked to death, I apologize. I'm not entirely sure that this is GT related or not. It seems to have a slant that way though.

If you recall, our DS5 (almost 6 now) went into first grade this year. It wasn't a perfect fit, but we thought it was better choice for him. Initially the only problems we had were around the fact that full day school would tire him out. Some days, after school, he would have classical melt downs. We managed this a variety of ways, including having a "brain break" after school. By November we seems to have generally worked through those issues.

Since about December-ish, though, we have started seeing some very negative behavior at home. A lot of testing of boundaries (talking back, ignoring, etc) and some hitting/kicking too. Even "Santa is watching" didn't work and we had a few pretty rough days leading up to Christmas. For his age (not quite 6) he was being very defiant. He'll find any gap in logic and attempt to use it to justify doing (or not doing) some task.

Now it's starting to happen at school. This is really what is concerning. And what is strange is that it's frequently happening during activities he likes (art class or reading time or during lunch). For example, he ignored an aide when told to go in a particular line. Later he told me "I know what the difference between needs and wants it. She wanted me to go to that line, but she didn't need me go to that line." (Stop laughing... I know you want to as did I ).

We're meeting with the teacher to talk about this recent behavior change and to understand if this is recent at school. We haven't yet been able to implement changes (the GIEP isn't complete) so I can't think that is the issue. Or maybe not having change is the issue. Or maybe he's going through something else not GT related.

We're a bit concerned as it's very challenging with him. We're not push over parents (in fact we can be rather strict). He's a good kid. Not sure if he fits into the "Spirited" category.

Any suggestions or comments appreciated. Again, not sure it's related to GTness...

Thanks.

JB

Do you have the opportunity to spend time with him at school? I try to eat lunch at school with DD6 on a regular basis. That would allow you to be able to see first hand some of what is going on.

I liked the story I'd heard once of a woman with an older child who was having behavioral issues at school. She went to every class with him and sat at the back of the room. The problems went away shortly after that.

It sounds like it does fit the GT for this reason: he finds loop holes in the argument and he understands the difference between wants and needs. This goes back to disciplining a GT kid and how the famous Because I said so just doesn't work with these kids. Have you sat down with him and talked about why he made the choice he did. (Of course after the issue at hand is over.) Make it a neutral time when it is daddy and son discussing things. You might find he does have logic behind his reasons and maybe you need to explain socially accepted logic and why it might make sense to him but this is why socially it doesn't work. If you approach it on a neutral respectful way with him he might be more attentive with trying to understand where you are coming from.

I know. This is not a clear-cut case which is why I'm trying not to assume anything. He is (almost) 6. Could just be coincidence.

We've been prepping the boys for a while on the new baby just like we did with older DS previously (the boys get along very, very well).

To KatelynsMom's point we spend a good amount of time explaining reasons to DS as tiring as that can be! ... sometimes, though, it does have to get to the point of "because I said so." What we're trying to get him to understand is that at school you do have to follow all of the rules and follow what the aides say. I think he's testing boundaries there too and I don't think they get him yet.

This is definitely frustrating and concerning. Thanks for the comments and thanks for listening!

JB

Oh my you just described him to a tee. He constantly thinks he knows everything. Running late for dinner, but I'll be back online later tonight. I'd be interested in hearing more...

JB

I guess it could be the age...if you have been reading my posts lately it seems we are struggling with a lot of the same behavior issues.

I think ours has a lot to do with inappropriate placement. What does he say when you question him on the negative behavior?

Hi, JB--

Sorry you're having a little trouble, but I'm sure it will sort itself out in the end--he's always sounded such a lovely child to me, and of course that hasn't changed, even though he's having some bad days. And we all have these bumps in the road, sadly...

Don't know if this will be at all helpful or not, but at one point when I was having a bit of a defiance problem around here, I worked hard (in an extremely sappy way, I'm sorry to say!) on making the lads feel as though they were part of a team--we had a team cheer (Team Marx, Team Marx, we can do it, we can do it, yes we can, wahoo!) and a team song (If we all work together, we'll have fun, If we all work together, we'll get done...)--it was corny as could be, but it worked, ultimately (if they'd been much older or more jaded, Mummy would have had to be more subtle, but they were young enough that I got away with it!).

I don't want them to turn into little robots for whom the only virtue is compliance, but I do want them to recognise that there are times that when for the good of the group as a whole, one must be cooperative (have to put on the seatbelt, or else none of us can go to the park, or whatever). Our little teambuilding exercises seemed to help build that awareness for them, and life became more pleasant again.

Just another, possibly too trivial, thought--does he have a chance during the school day for some snacks? It's a long day for a little guy, and maybe he gets growly when he's hungry, like my guys do--I can always tell around here if I forgot to give people something to eat between meals.

Hope things sort out for you soon--

peace
minnie

I agree, G3. In our house, DH and I are the boss, period.

Now, I'm big on giving choices to my kids, but only when all the options are acceptable options for them to choose! That's my main way to make sure they get to express their need for freedom or whatever.

I do listen if they have a problem with something we're doing AND they have a solution to suggest AND they can present it respectfully (and quickly! No half hour debates!). That sort of problem-solving and use of rhetoric is a skill I want to cultivate, so I am willing to listen, and I don't say no until I'm sure I mean it. I really hear them out. But they know that no means no, and that I have a good reason for why I say no. When I say no, the discussion is over. But every once in a while, if they have a good point and they can make it in the right way, I do say yes. In this way, they feel heard and respected, and I find that I get more respect from them because they know I am a reasonable person who respects their ideas and treats them fairly.

However, the disrespectful, fighting type of arguing in any form does NOT fit into this skill set, and I shut that down immediately. My kids know the difference. If I had a child who didn't understand the difference, I wouldn't do any of this. The conversation must be predicated on respect for my authority or we don't have it at all.

FWIW...

Yes, we try to find a reasonable balance. Generally our problems resolve around transitions or changes. So, for example, I may have said "do this before that" and when I change that to "do this thing and that other thing then you can do that" the arguing begins. Same thing if we're modifying an existing rule. In a lot of these cases taking the time to explain the rationale can help prevent a meltdown.

There is definitely something going on. During the last week and a half we've seen problems at school. DW had scheduled a meeting with his teacher for tomorrow and now the principal has been invited. (DW was a little concerned about this, but I don't see it as a negative thing.) We are concerned, but the more we talk it through, the more DW is convincing me that this may be reflective of his lack of learning anything substantial at school. He doesn't actively complain about it, but one could argue that this is how he's showing us his frustration. It sounds similar to (but not identical to) what Kriston's DS went through.

JB

Yes, I'm definitely having flashbacks as I read your experiences and Crisc's! Both issues seem most probably to be tied to lack of sufficient challenge to me. (Though, as always, I could be wrong!) I'm hoping that the principal's presence is a good sign.

Reasons help my kids, too, JBDad. "Because I said so" is just not something I would ever say because that would cause so many more problems than it would solve! And honestly, I have a hard time faulting a kid for that. It wouldn't satisfy me to get that response; why would I think it would satisfy a child?