Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Feeling a bit lost

I have to say that over the past couple years, we have made a tremendous amount of progress getting accomodations for our son (9-4thgrade) in the public schools. I am sincerely grateful to them for all that they are doing. At the same time, DS is getting more and more unhappy with school. The only subject he still likes is math, the one that he is subject skipped into a class with older students and a different teacher. DH and I do talk about home schooling but DS is very against the idea. He is very social and has on the surface a good network of friends in his classroom. DS won't even consider a full grade skip since it would mean not seeing much of his friends. I am also concerned about being his primary teacher. We have knocck out verbal battles just over his current homework assignments on a regular basis.

Some of the issues that we are seeing:
First DS's grades are dropping. Instead of bringing home mostly A's, his assignments with the exception of Math are more in the C and lower range. (not concept errors, spelling, handwriting, coloring, neatness etc.) Although he is getting an A in spelling...
Second, he tells us that he's stupid and can't do anything right. In fact, he has asked to be put into lower level classes because these are too hard.
Third, his emotions are all over the board, he won't eat much, and he is sleeping more than normal with nightmares at night.

To me he sounds depressed and or stressed. However, at school he is apparently still cheerful and class clownish. I wrote to the school to tell them what is going on. I think that they are going to try to see if they can get him to talk to the guidance councelor.

This is the first time in a couple years that DS hasn't talked to DH and I about what is bothering him. If this is a prelude to the teen years, I think I'm going to go nuts!

I think this a wonderful site to gain information into the world of intelligence/cognitive testing.

Having siad that, I have a few questions. I am presently having problems with my 8 year old son at private school catholic school.

two yeasr a go the WISC-IV was administered, his scaled scores on the ten subtest were: similarities 11, vacabulary 9, comprehension 13, digit span 10, letter-num seq 9, block design 14, picture concepts 15, matrix reasoning 18, coding 10, and symbol search 9. The test was done when he was in kindergarten.

His teachers are complaining that he is inattentive in class, but yet he's doing exceptionally well in the second grade. That is the report we got from the last tri-semester.

We were asked to take in for psych eval. After a month a half, the psych concluded that he was not mature for his age, but also said the kid was an 24 year old in an 8 year old body. I guess it because of the way the kid talks and speaks.

We are of no thinking thaat he is gifted. Certainly, his scores do not indicated giftedness. However, we are being asked to redo the test. My question is, what could have prompted the request for a restest? Would the result be skewed this time since he has already seen the test quite recently? And, is it possible that the scores were wrongly calculated?

His VCI was 104
PRI 135
WMI 97
PSI 97
FSIQ 114
GAI 123
Are these scores accurate?

elh,
You might want to check out some articles about underachievement in gifted children. Here is a link to the topic on the Hoagies site. http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/underachievement.htm

I have younger children, so I can't comment from personal experience. I have heard others say that some of the emotional fallout from being underchallenged really starts in the preteen years and can manifest as underachievement.

That said, I would definitely talk to your pediatrician about the change in sleep, appetite, and mood. You want to make sure nothing physical is going on and/or whether a referral to a specialist is necessary.

dahremarc,

Dottie might be able to tell whether the scores are calculated correctly.

Some organizations (such as Davidson�s) consider giftedness based on whether at least one of three scores (VCI, PRI or FSIQ) meet a certain threshold while others accept GAI. The WMI and PSI are not usually considered as important in determining gifted intelligence. So, a PRI of 135 does indicate gifted intelligence, although it is the less appreciated form, especially in a 2nd grade classroom.

I think you can get valid test results on the same test after just one year, so two years should be perfectly �legal�. If your son sounds like a 24 year old, his verbal score might reflect that attribute on the next assessment.

ELH,
this is so sad.
It certianly is true that a good bunch of friends is a wonderful thing, BUT

If you son is as you describe him, they you have to do something. Is a subject acceleration in English or Science or History a possibility?

If the only next step is a full grade skip,then you can offer these choices -
1 hour a night of Afterschooling at what you consider to be his readiness level.
2 grade skip at the same school
3 new school, with or without the gradeskip.

Remind him of all the homework he will never have to do!
We have BTDT, and socially it had a high and painful cost, but even our DS12 recently looking back agrees that it was 'the only way.'

Love and more Love,
Grinity

ELH: I'm feeling like this might be a case of your needing to be the parent here, regardless of what your son says that he wants. There are clear indications that he's having some pretty serious problems, and I'm not sure that his desire to stay with his friends is enough to override those problems. I don't know what the solution is--grade skip, homeschooling, any of Grinity's suggestions, etc.--but I think something more must be done.

What if you make arrangements for playdates (or whatever they call them at age 9...) with the school friends on a very regular basis? He might actually wind up getting more time to play with them, even if he doesn't spend time in school with them.

I would say something has to be done, though, IMHO.

Thanks you all so much for the support. The last few weeks have been very stressful for all of us as we try to get a handle on what is going on. Having this wonderful forum to vent my concerns helped a lot to get back to feeling like I can make informed and productive decisions instead of being stuck neck deep in sludge.

First, Dottie, I HAVE been relapsing back into gifted denial... If the work load is too much then maybe he really isn't gifted and maybe we really are putting all this pressure on him and are pushy hot housing parents.... Thanks for the very nice knock on the head that we can't forget that those darn processing speed and working memory issues are going to create bottlenecks. The squirrel in my brain is running in very fast circles trying to figure out how to deal with the concept that the comprehension and reasoning is there, but the ability to get that information out of his head and onto paper is not. That seems to me to be an extreme frustration. Add into the mix that DS is a perfectionist and will not try if he can't get it done to his level of satisfaction I do see the problem. We keep trying to chip away at the perfectionist problem. We use keyboarding and dictation and as many tools at home as we can to help him get through the assignments. But that doesn�t help at school. They do offer him help with organization (keeping his desk neat and bringing home assignments.)
In terms of delays, DS does not qualify for special services for processing speed and working memory. He is not 25% delayed for his age level. I don't have the numbers in front of me today, but if memory serves there is at least a 30-45 point spread between his processing speed and working memory scores and his VCI and PRI. But I do think that that the marking time in the status quo is an issue as well. With a slightly clearer head, I can see that putting both together I should have been more prepared for this fall out.

BTW � How goes karate? Our family loves it 

Jool, thanks for the link. I�m working my way through them again . I also did call his Pediatrician and have a blood test scheduled to check for problems as well as an appointment.

Grinity, as always you are a source of calm and support. His current school is being really good at trying to find options for him. We are working on some options for next school term (putting him with the teacher he has for 5th grade math who is already doing independent work with him) as well as some quick interventions now (such as easing back a bit on neatness). At the moment we aren�t sure if we will be moving or staying in this district a bit longer. We have to see how the job situation works out in this economy.
There aren�t any private schools in a drivable distance that can offer anything more. In fact most don�t even want to talk to us after the initial talks. Once they see his scores, they fade away pretty fast.
We do after schooling when time permits. Unfortunately, by the time the assigned homework is done, DS is in no mood to do more school (Homework can take up to 3 hours if it is heavily writing based.) I agree that social isn�t enough of a reason not to make changes, but to make the changes, I need some better alternatives. DS is a bit emotionally immature, not particularly good at seat work, and has no sense of time management. So far none of the interventions (timers, stopwatches, breaking down assignments) seem to help him get a sense that the process of completing a task by a deadline means starting with more time than you think you need to get it done.

Ds is already doing 5th grade reading in his reading group. Although he has the comprehension for higher, he doesn�t have the ability to get his ideas out on paper coherently. This leads into why we consider homeschooling 

Ah, Kriston, DS is well aware that the final decision will be made by the parents  That in itself causes a bit of a problem since he is less willing to tell us the full story when things aren�t going right. Playdates seem to be really hard to schedule at this age. All involved seem to have too much homework on school days and all the activities, sports, and family catch-up on weekends. We seem to connect with other families maybe once a month when schedules work out.

Thanks again all for your support and concern!

Also welcome Daremarc  I hope that you get the information and help you need from the board!

Oh Elh!
I forgot about those darn bottlenecks. DS12 had severe problems with written expression, back before he learned to touchtype at age 9, and then a whole world of higher challenges opened up! But before that it was a pure pain in the rear. Comprehension high/production low - I wish there were special schools for these special kids. In 6th grade at age 10 we insisted that any assignment that involved more than 3 sentences of writing that the teacher direct him to use a laptop we provided or one of the school's computers. He spent a whole year 'not writing' and then the next year his handwriting improved 1000%! Weird, huh?

In 4th grade, DS was totally against the idea of using a keyboard in class, but over the summer we sent him to SIG's day camp and I forced him to take a writing class. He toted an old laptop and did all his writing in it and had fun and by the time september rolled around - he was totally ok with the laptop idea. My son isn't the kind of person that I ever expect to change his mind, but my prayers were answered and he did change his mind on this one!

I'm going to say something amazing now. Since grades at this age don't count, why not have him in above age classes and make him stop homework after 15 minutes a subject and expect bad grades? I'd rather see your son intellectually engaged and stinking up the joint in terms of his homework completed, than limited to the levels were he can do the output. You say that you are considering homeschooling, if so, you may as well keep him in school now, and pull him later to let him catch up 'production-wise.' In a perfect world, you can get the teachers in on the plan. Otherwise, after 15 minutes (maybe 20 in LA) write in big letters, THIS REPRESENTS A SOLID 15 MINUTES OF MY SON'S WORK. I INSISTED THAT HE STOP NOW.
A weird thought, no? Not sure if I would have the guts to do it, but it may be your 'least-worst althernative.'

It's no wonder that you hate supervising homework! I don't blame you one bit.

Hopefully the interventions will be enough. It's amazing how it doesn't have to be completely right - just better than it was.

Love and More Love,
grinity