Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy I need help- Agression issues?

Hi Crisc,

Oh, sympathies. We've had a couple of bad days ourselves with DS6, and I'm wearing the mental and physical bruises. Our boy doesn't seem to express this at school (fortunately?) - he saves it for home. I wish I had any answers to give you, and have been reading others' comments with interest. The previous spate of verbal and physical attacks were the term before he was sent up a grade in the mornings - not challenging, but having any movement at all seemed to work a treat. We're in the middle of school holidays now, but I'm not sure what, if anything, I should read into that.

He's got such a different personality to DS4 - they're both incredibly stubborn, but DS6 has a combative streak that DS4 fortunately doesn't. When he really loses his temper any attempt to control him (even "go to your room") just increases the aggression - last night DH had to lie down on the bed with him and restrain him until he fell asleep. He's clearly miserable, and will say so afterwards, but just can't seem to stop. The threat of consequences can help him control himself before it starts, but not once it's underway. He's much worse when he's tired (which he has been) and not particularly well (also). But still.

I do think that DH needs to get a little firmer. His own father was rather too authoritarian, and so he tends to err on the side of soft - I'm the tough one, but now that DS is getting older I really think DH needs to step up and be seen more. Actually this is niggling away at me as really quite important.

I don't know how much of this is situational and how much inherited - DH has had anger management issues and counseling, but attributes that to war service. And I know my temper isn't always the best, though back in my time (ugh) I don't think children dared to behave that way! I think perhaps his being an introvert is a factor sometimes - from a long line of them on both sides I'm afraid - poor boy. An IN person has got to expect a few more challenges in life than an ES I reckon. Hmm, what about smaller class sizes for introverts? With noise-mitigation measures and regular alone time? We're going camping next week, and I fully expect that will work wonders - even a walk in the forest does a lot to stop/drain the build-up of tension.

We don't have any luck experimenting with challenges at home either, generally. He has always hated being 'told' by us. We can slip things in round the side sometimes, but no telling! He's never had any fear of heading off into the world to discover on his own (harrowing in a toddler), and I think he'd like more opportunities to do this. Difficult at six, but I appreciate his frustration.

So what are we going to do? - (in no particular order):

- earlier to bed
- more quiet time in the middle of the day
- camping
- changing schools (hairy business)
- DH getting more involved with discipline and modeling control
- keep up the consequences. This can be hard though - most toys are shared, and we can't really keep one from TV and not the other. No visiting and no treats seem to be most effective
- more one on one outings/activities with DH
- talk about his good behaviour and lovely qualities (there are plenty!)
- immediate reaction to unacceptable behaviour
- have wondered about Scouts.

How I hope we have some success.

I'll have my fingers crossed for you,
bk

(((Hugs)) BK!

I love that your son gets renewed from being out in nature! I do, but my DS doesn't.

I do think that it's a good sign if a child can 'save up their fight' for home.

Getting DH into the picture does indeed sound like something worth fighting for. United front makes a tremendous difference at out house, as does earlier to bed.

BTW, It's ok in my book to remove the TV from both to punish one, (If you can stand it) as you aren't denying anything that they need, like walks outside, food or clothing.

I think sometimes younger siblings are better behaved because they get to release tension by watching the older one 'get in trouble.'

I also think that younger sibs who are gifted benifit from being in a 'home gifted cluster' - that is, having a like-minded sibling at home to interact with is much like having a cluster grouping of like-minded kids at school.

I think that the first borns may also be more succeptable to rage when they have spend 'too much' of their school time
to the far left of their readiness level in the 'forced underachievement with/Shame' catagory, where a child whose abilities are so far above the level that the class is expected to be at, that he is ashamed to be there. At this distance from the readiness level, the teachers also experience the child as 'something wrong' because he or she doesn't fit in and the teachers show it in 1000 little ways. Due to asynchrony, the child may be perfectly placed in terms of some skills, such as coloring ability, or rapid multiplication facts, and yet very poorly placed in terms of their strengths.

I'm not saying that this can happen consiously, or to any child, but whengifted Overexcitability and personality and environment come together with even high-average parenting - WOW!

Eventually we got a dog, and I like to reassure myself that I'm not a terrible person by remembering that my dog is quite well behaved. Really, if you were at my house when it was time for the dog to eat, you'd see me put her in a 'down-stay' while I put the food dish on the floor, and keep her there for 30 or so seconds until I tell her to go ahead and enjoy her food. It amazes the neighors, anyway.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

DH and I just had this conversation.

Thanks everyone for advice. It's very helpful. I am reading and re-reading everything and am trying to formulate a plan for dealing with the negative behavior.

quote=gratified3] The length of time it took to overcome the exception was astounding to me. It turned out to be a lot easier NOT to make the exception in the first place!
[/quote]

UG! We just had a 'going to be hassle' because I made an exception the night before last, and again last night. Reminded me that one of the difficulties of making exceptions is that then it's harder to disipline myself! I always thought that if one were consistient then unwanted behavior would extinguish - in our house, it seems that the urge toward unwanted behavior becomes less intense over time, but never really goes away. It seems that if I make an exception once, it is so much harder for me to 'go back' to doing what I know is right.

((shrug))
Grinity

Hi,

Does he say he gets teased a lot as school for being a geek? Our son was and he'd become aggressive and angry at home. I'm glad to hear he's going to a new school for gifted kids. I'm eager to hear how this will change things. Our son, also, could argue like a lawyer and nothing we took away had any affect. He was very manipulative. He refused to see a dentist for years. Couldn't get him in the car. If he went, he threw a fit in the chair because he once threw up from the flouride treatment. He's 27 now, a wonderful adult, and says he wishes he went to the dentist because then he would've gotten his flute back. (We had just gotten him one and told him if he went to the dentist, he'd start lessons.) So, the will of g.kids can be rock-hard and stubborn. We'd spent money for his braces when he was twelve yet he didn't brush properly and didn't do the follow up retainer once they were off. He now regrets it as his teeth reverted (a bit) on the bottom. Perhaps a beh. mod book would've helped us back then. Taking things away, luring with new things, reasoning, never helped us. I say these things, also, to encourage you. These types grow up to be phenomenal, caring adults that will surprise us.

Oh, Cris, what a bummer. We've been there (well, not quite beating the other kids up, but certainly being too physical/fighting, and being very defiant with the teachers), and it's not fun for anyone.

We also used a hard line here -- there were no exceptions, and punishment was swift and (probably overly) harsh. Like your ds, ds6 doesn't really miss video games or TV.

So we started with earlier bedtimes. On Day 1 of bad behavior, it was a half-hour early with no reading, lights out immediately. On Day 2, it was a full hour early -- that makes bedtime 7 pm, and when we don't get home until 5:30, that's *early*. And on Day 3, he had to sit on the couch and do *nothing* from the minute he got home until his massively early bedtime at 6:30. No talking, no playing, no reading, no video games, no TV, just *sitting*. It was pure torture for my very talkative, inquisitive kid. One night of that and he shaped up quick.

I think it worked because it was fairly immediate -- as soon as we heard the report, that was it. It was short-term -- only one night -- but had the potential to snowball into a fairly horrible punishment. But if, after a bad day, he got a good report, he was immediately rewarded that night with a regular bedtime, reading time, and sometimes even an extra treat. So we'd reinforce the good and really go after those fighting behaviors.

It was a punishment for me as well; I work all day and it was a bummer to put him in bed at 7! But it was the best, most effective thing we've tried. We also had a daily journal for reports from his teacher.

We'd remind him in the morning -- what's going to happen if you get a negative report? He'd repeat back the consequence, so we knew he understood. I think this reminder helped just before he left, so he'd have it fresh in his mind. We'd also remind him that he may not be able to control the *other's* kids' behavior, but that we expected him to control his *own* behavior. We did some role playing: "What will you do if Sam comes up and tries to fight?" I think that had some effect too, as he knew he had some rehearsed phrases in his repertoire to deal with bad situations.

And there is, of course, the challenge at school. We seen a huge decrease in physically aggressive behavior with appropriate placement. When his mind is active, apparently, he doesn't feel the need to be so physically active. He's still very chatty, but he's not being defiant and aggressive at school anymore. He's a much, much happier kid when he's really working at school.

Good luck. Keep us posted! I really, really hope the gifted school works out for your ds next year, it's been a lifesaver for ours.

We started using an allowance system that a behavior therapist gave us. You give the child his/her age in allowance on Saturdays. Then you make them pay for privileges (tv, computer, playdates they request, movies) if they request them (as opposed to when you plan them), you have them pay for specific bad behaviors that you have outlined, and you pay them for good behaviors that you are trying to encourage. You can give them goals to work towards, etc.

This system seems to be really working because it puts the power in the kids' hands. They get to choose how to spend their money. They know bad behavior costs them money. They start to be more aware of their actions.

Good luck!

I haven't read all the responses, I'll just add my thoughts.

Have you had your ds checked out for sensory integration issues or allergies?

So I spent most of Saturday evening sitting on DS6 and wondering where I can get a parenting handbook that includes wrestling holds. DH was not at all comfortable with my approach - he wanted to offer sympathy and talk it through gently. I felt amazingly calm in the certainty that there was nothing else I could do - the bottom line was that he couldn't be allowed to rampage through the house attacking us and breaking things.

When the situation finally settled down we decided to go with the brat camp approach - all priveledges withheld until such time as DH and I think he has earned the right to have them back. And he's been advised that they will disappear immediately again if there are any infringements (will have to make sure DH stays on the straight and narrow). So far he's missed out on going to the movies, a play date at a friend's house, pocket money, desert, TV, computer. He's been lovely since - I wish a couple of days was enough to make me feel confident in claiming to have discovered an effective approach.

We still haven't attempted any sort of analysis of the situation with him. I don't think this would get us too far, as I don't believe he has any idea what triggers the anger. And I'm feeling a bit wary about giving him the idea that it can all be explained/excused - the behaviour is unacceptable no matter what the reason. If it continues we'll sign up for some professional help, but I hope it doesn't come to that.

I did wonder about a quiet comment he made yesterday about hoping he can get into the other school, so that he can meet new friends - he's been very adamently against the idea. He expressed negative thoughts about school friends during the last spate of aggressive behaviour too. But perhaps feeling unhappy causes this, rather than the other way around. (Oh, save the world from amateur psychologists!)

Any stories about difficult children who have grown into lovely responsible adults would be much appreciated!

Crisc - hope things are looking up for you?

Cheers
BK

BK,
I am on a board at conductdisorders.com that I would highly suggest. There are people there who have gotten past the toughest stuff and their kids have succeeded, and others who have children with such difficulties that they are struggling. It's a great place to get perspective.

One other thing. I would recommend reading "The Explosive Child". It has a different sort of discipline geared towards children like your son. Everyone on the other boards recommends it and it definitely helps.

Good luck BK.