Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion WPPSI vs. SB-V

I agree with Crisc. DYS is worth it!

I worried that we were somehow chasing scores to get him in, and I definitely find that distasteful. Not my style! But there were 2 (well, 2.5) reasons we retested on the WISC: 1) we still didn't really know what LOG he was at, and it kind of mattered for homeschooling, 2) he seemed like a candidate for DYS, as his achievement test scores were well within DYS range and he seemed like a 4 on Ruf's scale, and 2.5) Dr. Amend said we should because the SB-V was not a good fit for him (among other reasons).

I seriously debated about just dropping it. I debated about it here on the forum, in fact. I felt like, "My kid is smart. I know this. Do I need to know more or is it ego?"

Well, in the end, I don't think it was ego. I learned a good bit of very useful info from the WISC about how he learns. And he did get the scores he needed for DYS. It's nice to be a part of that group. Socially especially, it has been a real boon.

I'm sure it helps that he tested well that second time. If he hadn't, I might feel less secure about our choices.

But I'd certainly recommend that you test if you think your child might be a DYS candidate. No question! There's absolutely nothing wrong with that!

The school psychologist who tested DS6 told me she picked the SB-5 over the WISC because it depends less on fine motor skills/speed. DS, like many gifted boys, has hands that can't keep up with his thinking.

Ditto my friend. And the tests sometimes creates more questions than answers...

JB

I just want to throw my 2 cents in...
I had DS tested at 4.8y on the WPPSI and recently on the SBV at 7.8y (this second testing was for DYS purposes only since the original WPPSI scores were greater than 2 years old). DS did well on both scoring within a few points of each other on FS IQ. DS also excelled/ceilinged at NV on the SBV and Performance on the WPPSI. DS is a very VS kid - building Legos, blocks, stuff out of things, 3-D visualization, etc. Here's a quick link that describes VS learners: VS def
Additionally, the psychologists in our area have described the 2 tests as differing in that the WPPSI measures knowledge gained thus far, rather than potential wherease the SBV measures some knowledge but is able to assess potential better.
FWIW, I have had friends' children who have taken both tests and received highly dissimilar FSIQ scores (all GT but ranging from low end to mod or from HG to PG).
And lastly, we had DD assessed on the SBV only and DD's score was within 2-3 points of DS. I only mention this since DD did not present as GT+. I thought DD was bright and maybe MG but DD's scores were DYS worthy like DS's.

IMHO I would go with the SBV. Reason being DD not presenting as GT and being GT! Also, DS's scores were slightly higher on the SBV v. the WPPSI-III.

HTH, Good luck and please do keep us posted.

Feel free to PM me if you have detailed questions.

DS's subscore on one of the knowledge subtests of the SB-5 was, by far, his lowest score. Didn't bring down his entire score that much though because it was only on that one subtest. I recall a couple of other people on this board saying that gifted boys frequently score low on the knowledge subtests of the SB-5 - I'll defer to them... Are you guys out there?

Yes. I am here. DS6 got 19's on every verbal subtest except knowlegde. He got a 10. I think his non-verbal knowledge subtest was just a little higher. My tester actually put some documentation from Dr. Ruf in our report describing the phenomenon that seems to occur in young gifted boys.

Here is the infomration from the Use of the SB5 in the Assessment
of High Abilities Bulletin:

Analysis of the case studies reveals that a rather surprising number of the exceptionally gifted�and boys in particular�score lower on Knowledge (KN), and especially Verbal KN (Vocabulary), than on the other factors. Although merely speculative at this stage, it may be fruitful to investigate whether or not video
game or computer use might have cut into the reading time of the generation(particularly boys) now in school. Tyler is actually well read and factually knowledgeable, but his immediate grasp of out-of-context vocabulary was relatively low for his overall ability. The report includes this explanation:

Knowledge represents an examinee�s accumulated fund of general information acquired at home, school, or work. In research, this factor has often been called crystallized ability. Although still above average, the Knowledge factor score was relatively lower than his other factor scores. Additionally, the Verbal
Knowledge subtest Vocabulary contributes half of the score to the Abbreviated Battery IQ (ABIQ), explaining his relatively lower ABIQ of 130 (that is, lower relative to his FSIQ).

I was in the exact same place you are when we (well, I -- ex-h wasn't on board in the slightest) decided to test. I knew he was smart, but I couldn't decide *how* smart, and what I was justified in asking for from the school. Talk about opening a can of worms!

My ds6 took the WPPSI at 5y5m and ceilinged 7 of the 11 subtests, leaving him *just* short of the DYS WPPSI cut-off. If you're hoping (even a little) for DYS scores, I'd wait for the WISC, or just do the SB5 -- from what I've read of your ds, he's almost certainly at the higher end of the spectrum and the WPPSI just might not provide enough ceiling room. It's possible to be accepted to DYS with close scores and a portfolio, but it's kind of a pain in the neck. When you have a child who you are pretty sure qualifies but misses the cut-off on what amounts to a testing technicality, it's frustrating knowing that the resources there are just out of reach.

I've said this before and I don't have any specific research to back it up, but two GT-experienced testers I've contacted separately recommended waiting on the WISC until closer to 6.5 or 7. Not sure the rationale on that, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

What a terrific thread - you guys are the best!

I'm learning a huge amount of stuff here. For one thing, it seems to me a really bad idea in our case to choose a test that measures knowledge gained so far. The main reason is that, although DS has a huge amount of specialized knowledge - from Norse mythology to the moons of Jupiter, from the history of the Galactic Empire to the geometry of square numbers, and so on - I simply can't imagine that a test-maker thinking about what a 4-year-old might know could manage to hit on his specialties.

Second, I'm so happy to hear people say that it's not crazy to keep a DYS application at least in the back of the mind.

These things together make me more confident that we should use the SB-V if we do something relatively soon, or the WISC if we decide to wait a couple of years.

Weather permitting we're having a "get-acquainted" meeting with the assessor on Saturday. We'll see what she thinks, but it's good to have some background going in.

BB

LOL!

I guess my point was that the way my DS has gone about "acquiring knowledge" is so ad hoc, so follow-your-nose, that although he has tons of specialized knowledge he might well not know whatever basic things they ask on the test. If it doesn't happen to have been a passion of his, then he might well have ignored it entirely.