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Hey guys! Well I am again considering-seriously considering- homeschool for my DD5. Just to give some background:
I was planning on HSing her this year, but DH and MIL pressured me into enrolling her in public school for the "social" benefits. (The word "social" makes me cringe !! They both use this word so excessively it's like that's all they care about!) While I by no means tend for my child to be a hermit, I do believe that every child is different and not all children benefit from being in large groups (myself and my husband both prefer small groups and "clam up" in large groups so he should be understanding). And, there are other ways to learn social skills. She participates in martial arts for 2 hours a day 5 days a week and wants to start gymnastics as well so in my mind, the "social" part is taken care of. I should also mention that my MIL has stated several times that she wants my child to "show everybody else up" and "show them how much smarter she is than the other kids" (whose parents my MIL knows). So I believe she has an almost selfish "one-track" agenda and is not taking my DD's needs into consideration. And I have tried explaining to her that DD is not going to "show everyone else up" as she puts it b/c she is in a sense being held back and made to work at the pace of the other students. Any thoughts I might be missing? OHgrandma, if you read this, I am interested in any pointers you may have on how to verbalize the unique learning needs of GT kids to my MIL. I know that she is our child and therefore it's our decision, but my MIL calls at least once a day to say things like "she likes school doesn't she?", "she's doing good isn't she", and "I'm so happy she's going to school and making friends; she needs to make friends". It's almost like she's tongue-in-cheek saying "Don't you dare pull her out!"
My DD5 told me today (and many times before) that she didn't want to go to school. "The kids laugh at me and the teacher gets me into trouble even if I didn't do anything wrong. My only favorite teacher was in preschool (she had a GT teacher then at a private school before we moved to this very small town)." She then proceeded to tell me that I needed to go to the store today while she is at school and buy a chalkboard and books for her b/c I "know how to teach her kindergarten". She tried everything to stall from not liking her pants and shoes to being tired to eating breakfast extremely slow. Her grades are beginning to suffer and she is missing test questions that she knows the answer to. I know grades don't really matter at this age, but I am concerned about her emotional needs.
How damaging would it be for her to continue?
I want to pull her out now, but can I?
Can I HS 1st grade at night while she is enrolled in kindergarten at a public school?
Or should I let her finish this year out and then homeschool starting this summer?
How should I handle the resistance and snide remarks from my MIL/her grandma!?
Help!!! Thanks!

I started HSing DS last year when he started 1st grade. He went to PS K, and although he did very well, he just was not being challenged at all. My IL's were very against it, and DH wasn't exactly thrilled with the idea of HSing. After just one month of HSing, everyone could see how DS was blossoming because he could go at his own speed. At that point they were all completely for it. And now MIL is my biggest cheerleader. DH is very supportive, too. And DS couldn't be happier.

I am planning to send DD to K in the fall. She is not as advanced as DS was, but she is already reading and writing. Because of the social aspect, I don't think she will be board, though. We will see how it goes.

My advice to you is to do what you feel is right for your child. Don't let others influence that. Once they see how well it's working for you and her, they will have no choice but to be happy too. LOL!

Yes, you can pull her now! Since she was enrolled with the school district, there will, probably, be some paperwork. Familiarize yourself with your state's homeschool laws - HSLDA.org is a good resource for this. In most states the age of compulsory schooling is six; so depending on where you live, your daughter may not legally be required to go. Also, since (I'm guessing) you are on winter break this is a good time for some deschooling and to start making plans for the upcoming sememster. Remember, it doesn't have to look like school or be school-at-home to be educational. Trust yourself!
MM

A book recommendation for your MIL:

http://www.rachelgathercole.com/

This will take socialization out of the conversation.

good luck!

Hi--I am new to this forum, but not new to gifted education and all that goes with it. We have been through many of the same experiences that you described.

I am a retired teacher and I never expected teachers to be intimidated by our son's intelligence. I've always loved learning and was fascinated when a student would tell me something new (if in doubt, I asked them to find out more...).

When our son took in a model of the solar system that he had painted accurately for show and tell at age 6, his teacher talked to me and commented that he knew more about the planets than she did--not in awe or as a compliment, but more like she felt foolish and a little annoyed. I've never understood that--there is a place for everyone. I am very grateful that my surgeon is gifted, but he couldn't fix my car....This is part of the socialization concept that we share with our son.

We had many times of balking and disliking school in our son's early elementary years. After he was tested, he was accelerated for science for two years, but then it wasn't possible because of the distance of the other building.

In third grade, I contacted a nearby college whose Honors College students then began mentoring gifted children. His mentors were wonderful--chemistry, geology, mechanical engineering, astronomy, computer science and on and on. He loved it and the only requirement was that they did something "cool" in that subject and the college student would share their knowledge (which I did not have). I am way out of physics, but I have learned a lot! I watched one day to make sure he was paying attention to his mentor. He was 8 years old and she was doing a lecture with diagrams on DNA and RNA (biochemistry major). He was sitting as still and engrossed as possible. I was thrilled and amazed. Later, she told me that he finally asked a question and she was elated. She said that every question she asked him, he understood and knew. She said "Finally! Something he didn't get". This didn't happen in the regular third grade class....

Mentors worked very well until he finished fourth grade. Fifth grade teachers in that school district and nearby ones refused to allow mentors...I knew he would never make it without mentors--just doing repetitive worksheets and hearing about topics he already understood (and that teacher would get upset about if he knew more than they did--like knowing the moons of Mars...happened).

This was time to home school and it was time for me to retire. We are members of a wonderful group of parents that are homeschooling their gifted children (parents are engineers, doctor, teachers, lawyers, a pilot, business owners and on and on). We have great field trips. He loves seeing these kids. His first comment to me on the first trip was "These kids understand what I'm talking about".

We have been doing this for almost 5 years and our son loves it. Each year, I ask if he wants to go back to "school-school" and he always replies 'NO!'

We use the internet for endless resources including AP books that are online for free from colleges. We've found some amazing sites as well as a list of topics to guide us when needed. He is also at the age where he self instructs--especially in computer science. He's taught me about Irfanview this year and I enjoy it! Most of what he's doing --level design, using 3DS Max, creating portals, tessellations, Audacity and other 'stuff', I don't understand. But I don't need to. He does....I guide the day with chores and academics (literature, algebra and geometry, geography, history--had a great time with the election)before
he can do independent computer science. He even has contact with kids from other states and countries (cautious, of course) that play games together, answer questions about each other's weather, terrain etc, exchange webcam photos--like the snow in our yard to a friend in Florida, exchange other info about the area (no address or full names, of course), and have talked online with a microphone (that's geography history, civics and socializing, too).

While we don't have mentors now (he's 14 and the college has told us that he is 'too advanced' for a Honors College mentor), we do go to the college for events. Last fall we went to the college to the Grad Students' Open House for Computer Science and Engineering (which he loves). They were kind enough to allow us. In small groups, we visited Embodied Intelligence Lab, Biometric Research, and Media Technology Lab. Each place had an explanation and demonstrations. He really loved this. I had no clue, but enjoyed his chance to interact with others that shared his love of learning.

Next, we are going to the same college to meet with a professor in cellular biology (we are doing AP Biology--book, great websites and book online from a college). The professor does research in bacteria, fungi and mold and will also show us around the bioenergy research lab.

Soooooo-----as far as homeschooling goes, saying that socialization is missing in home school is plain, old lame. The truth in my opinion is that kids in the U.S. are grouped together by age for the ease of the school system and our archaic methods of memorizing trivia for a test as opposed to understanding a concept, of not using technology as much as we should and the way we don't do more to help them investigate a career or occupation.

My last year of teaching was in fourth grade. My students ranged from reading at a first grade level to reading at a high school level. If the difference is that great in intellectual ability, how can it be the same in maturity for socializing? If same age doesn't matter, than socializing with all ages is what counts.

A very talented young teacher heard that I was retiring and going to home school our son. He asked if I wasn't concerned about socialization...I replied that if we could only work with people our own age than he and I never could have worked together--I'm old enough to be his mother... He nodded, grinned and said he had never thought of it that way.

In this world, socialization really means knowing how to appreciate, be kind to others, to get to know others and work with people of all ages. When you take your child to a family reunion, that is socializing. Shopping is too Going to the library is... Having a friend over is...So is every trip to a wonderful college or museum or whatever your child loves (planetarium, rocketry, Bug House, the list is endless...). That's socializing--not sitting in your seat doing papers with no talking.

OK, I'm off my soapbox and sorry if I am too long, but I wanted to share that I have taught and I am still teaching so I have experienced both sides. I am also learning--- he's is so far above me that I'm "along to the ride" and I guide--writing with "stick and clay tablet" instead of typing is a challenge for him.

Do what is best for your child and then look up the many famous scientists, statesman/woman, poets, authors, inventors and more that were homeschooled. It will help you know.

Good luck and yes, you can pull your child out from school and put them back if needed. In our state, we didn't even have to fill out any papers.

Karen

Sing it, sister! I couldn't agree more.

And I hope you'll stick around the forum. I am currently homeschooling my 7yo boy*, and I could use your experience and expertise as we go through the process. I'm especially interested in the mentoring you've used. We haven't gotten there yet, but I think we'll need to find someone for him sooner rather than later.

*We also have a 4yo boy--an extrovert--whom we're going to try at school and see how it goes. He loves pre-K, so we're hoping that maybe he'll love elementary school, too. Fingers crossed!

YEAH wonderful post Karen!!!!!

Hi AMS! Welcome!

You've got a tough row to hoe here! Looks like DH is under that common mistaken assumption that if he had been raised differently that he would have a different temperment. My own DS12 has been telling me lately that he wishes I had put him in a crib as a baby so that he would be more solid sleeper now, so I know that even very intelligent people can make this mistake.

I believe that each parent has a moral obligation to their child to do as best they can for their child, even if this is different from what the spouse thinks, if the situation is extreame enough. But what a difficult path this is. If you want to keep your marriage, then it is imperitive that you spend lots of time and energy negotiating and listening to your DH, and try and see if the two of you can come to a middle road.

You will need this 'united front' with DH in order to prevent your DD5 from learning to play one off the other anyway.

Once you have decided on your 'united front' they it's time to share with MIL how bad she is making to feel and what you think that she is trying to imply. First I would try and listen to her and see where she got her ideas. My hunch is that if you listen with love and respect, and remember that these ideas had to make sense at some point in her past,then eventually she will loosen up. Something pretty major must have happened to her to feel that survival and 'showing up' are so linked. If you can't actually muster listening with love and respect and an open mind, then you can at least listen as best you can and figure out where the 'holes in her logic' are, so you can calmly reply with 'I hear that you feel X, but DH and I feel Y, and I don't want to discuss it anymore today.' Then quickly change the subject. As much as she loves her Grandaughter, she must have some other interests.

So, you have an unhappy daughter. She wants a blackboard and your teaching attention. Of course you can 'Afterschool' her and teach her whatever you both enjoy and is in her 'readiness level.' That may be first grade, 2nd grade or something else entirely. Once you get an idea of what she is actually thrilled to learn, (this might take a little as 3 weeks) put together a portfolio and bring it to the teacher and then the gifted coordinator or school principle, asking that your dd's special educational needs be met.

Although you have pulling her out mid-year as an option, of course it builds up the idea that if something in life is uncomfortable, then it can be walked away from. This isn't the worst lesson you can teach, but given that your DH is not yet firmly on your side, then perhaps a better alternative is to 'fight' the system and see if you can get a full gradeskip or subject accelerations. I expect that the social aspects would improve, although she might find the kids big and scary, it might be just the opposite, as she sees that they behave closer to her own self-expectations. As you go through your own assesment and demonstrate to your DH what her special educational needs are, and bring him along the 'grade-skip' advocacy road, my hunch is that he will start to see the situation as you do, and become an ally for the 'homeschool alternative.'

It's hard to tell from your post if she is really at the 'pull her at any cost' stage, or if you have the rest of the year to model going after difficult things (a grade skip) and then keep her home next year. There doesn't happen to be a wonderful 1st grade teacher at your school does there?

If switching to a private school sounds more appealing that a grade skip in the regular school (smaller classes, more unit studies approach) then perhaps that's a better 'paper tiger' to persue. The key is to have some kind of negotiation with DH. (the book 'Getting to Yes' is wonderful)

I haven't mentioned the alternative kind of assesment, which is to hire a professional and get their advice. IF you can find one that is a resource for 'well, what do we do next' and perhaps for helping parents learn to 'be on the same team' that would be even better. If you can say what your 'traveling range' is, we can try to suggest an expert. Perhaps you already have had a professional assesment, and can use that person as a resource.

((Handshake))
You are now recieving your 'Mom Scout Sash' and I look forward to you earning 'badge' after 'badge' in all the challenging aspects of love and parenting, Congratulations!

Grinity

Does your DH really see your daughter's situation clearly? Has he spent time with her after school, say, listening to her talk about how she feels? Has he visited the school to observe? Or is he just ignoring her reality (and yours!) and wishing that things will get better? Does he understand that there are homeschooling groups and classes so that HSed kids get social time with groups? It's NOT locking the kid in the basement and throwing books down the stairs to her!

I agree with Grinity that parents MUST put on a united front, but my DH and I also think that the parent who is not home with the kids gets less of a vote about how they're raised. I don't go to his office and tell him how to do his job--though he consults with me and asks my advice when it helps him--and he doesn't come to my job at home with the kids and tell me how to do it as if he knows better--though I talk through what to do with him and ask his advice on a daily basis. We play to our strengths.

If he had a strong objection to something I'm doing, that would be a big concern for me and we'd certainly talk a lot about it. But he respects my take on the kids and he understands that since I'm the primary caregiver and I'm with the kids much more than he is, my take is probably more accurate than his. He doesn't second-guess me. He supports me.

We jointly made the decision to homeschool, but much of the "evidence" we used to come to that decision was based on my observations of our son and the school. Therefore, what I said and how I felt greatly influenced his position.

Now, in your case, it seems to me that your primary problem is that your husband doesn't really respect your take on the kids. Either he needs firsthand evidence that your DD is not where she belongs (because your view cannot be trusted) or you need to change the nature of your relationship and introduce more respect.

Personally, I'd address that basic problem in the relationship first, before dealing with the issue of what to do about your DD's education. I think it's time for a long talk with your DH after the kids are in bed. You can't do your job if he doesn't respect you.

As for your MIL, silently remind yourself that it's not her child, and while she can certainly have an opinion and express it, it doesn't mean you have to do anything about it! You and your DH are the only votes that truly matter. Do listen to what she has to say. Do ask questions and really dig into why she thinks as she does, because a) she might have some good points that you haven't heard, and b) she will feel better and less required to push you if she knows she has been really listened to. But listening does NOT mean that you and your DH have to do what she wants. Your child, your decision.

If you do decide to homeschool, you will have to have a series of hard talks with your MIL. I figured my mom would be the judger when we were considering homeschooling, and my approach was to talk with her before the decision was made to ask what her concerns were. Then I researched her concerns and shared what I had learned with her. Finally, after many talks, I informed her that we had decided to homeschool, and while I knew she was nervous about that decision, I hoped that we would have her support. Because I had listened to her throughout--even soliciting her opinion!--and I had taken her concerns seriously, she became surprisingly supportive. I don't think she's completely on board. She still wishes DS were in a traditional school. But she isn't undermining me, and she even taught him a science lesson once when they were visiting. So I consider the process a success!

Finally--and importantly--I have to address the "pulling a child out mid-year teaches her it's okay to quit when things are hard." I find that point of view very troubling.

If you pull a child out of an activity everytime she whines a little, then yes, it's a problem. I don't think that helicopter parenting is at all good for kids.

But taking a deeply miserable child out of a lousy educational fit once in her young life teaches a child that you see her experiences as they really are, you love her, and that she can trust you even when things are at their worst. Is it better to leave the child in the bad situation? What does that teach her? That school is awful and her parents don't care if she is unhappy and depressed. Not better!

Half a school year is a LOOOOOOONG time for a 5yo. Given what you've described, I think you are right that something needs to change. I definitely think that emotional damage can be done in a bad educational situation. All kinds of bad habits are taught in a bad school fit: underachievement, "I'm stupid," poor work ethic, etc.

I would ask this: overall, is school making her a better person or a worse one? If it's not making her better, then what's the point?

If your mom gut is telling you that homeschooling is the answer, I think you have to take that seriously. There are many ways to fix a bad situation, and considering many ways to solve the problem before you make a decision is smart. More choices are better than fewer, and maybe you've overlooked something. Maybe the school is willing and able to adapt for your DD. But there IS a problem here, and it is time to find a solution.

If you've explored your options and your gut says to pull her out, then I think you need to work to make that happen.

We pulled DS out of 1st grade because he had gone from a happy, friendly, rule-abiding boy to a cranky, angry, sad kid who lost recess time nearly every day and hit his brother when he got home. He was receiving no adaptations whatsoever, and he was suffering. We didn't see any way our very rigid "We're a very good school" school system was going to make things better for him. After about 6 weeks of 1st grade, we pulled him out for homeschooling, and his behavior returned to normal IMMEDIATELY! We're now in our 2nd year of homeschooling, and it has been so good for him.

It's not the solution for everyone, but it is a valid solution. And he functions very well in groups!

Nice Post Kriston. I love hearing how your developed your relationship with your DS's grandmother.

I don't exactly know what I meant by saying that a mid-year pull 'builds up the idea' - it think I was trying to say that there are potential downsides and that each situation has to be weighed individually. My thought for AMS was that if she was already good at fighting difficult battles, then she would have told DH to get with her and MIL to 'can it' a long time ago.

Actually the lesson that some situations can and must be walked away from (like in your son's situation) is a wonderful lesson. I just know how hard it's been with my own son and afterschool activities to walk that line between 'not wanting to raise a quitter' and 'not wanting to keep my son in a situation that feels wrong to him.' In our situation it is at the point where he is too big to 'force' anymore in anything less than dire situations. This is one of the things that I resent about how most current school systems treats gifted kids.

Fact is that many of our little gifties are very bossy and so logical that is it so easy to grant them more adult discretion that weI should. It's been a major challenge for me to honor my son's individuality without letting him run the show. I don't get the sense that you have had that challenge so far. Personally, I'm the most 'ballsy' female I know locally, and I'm still a 'pushover!' So frustrating.

Anyway, AMS, we'd love to hear more about how things have been for your daughter in the classroom and what you try and how it works out. We are all feeling our way here, with lots of tender spots as we go.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I didn't mean to misrepresent you there, Grinity. I think I was going along with the thought, rather than basing my comments on what you actually said. I should have said so. Sorry!

True confessions: some of my response is because I REALLY worried about whether we were teaching him to quit when we were considering whether to pull DS7 out of 1st grade or not. It was one of the things my "friend" who was critical of our decision raised (in a very snotty tone! And that's the "friend" who saw nothing wrong with a kid being bored for 3 years...), and I felt pretty insecure about it. It has been discussed here several times, too. It seems to be a pretty common criticism launched at homeschoolers who start their kids in school, right after "What about socialization!?!" So I admit that I'm probably a bit touchy on the subject!



I'll add that in the end, I decided I was worrying about nothing. I think that as long as you don't pull your child out every time he's not 100% happy with every little thing about an activity, you're fine. I suspect I make him stick it out with things he dislikes a lot longer than teachers would, frankly.

Anyway, I wasn't trying to pick on you there in any way, Grinity. My apologies!

We had our DS5 in a Montessori program from age 2-5 (because I worked as a teacher)...the older he got, the more miserable he became - they were not challenging him at all and he kept telling me that he was bored, bored, bored. His teacher was very intimated and even told me and him several times that he needed to slow down because he was so far ahead of everyone else and that she was afraid she would run out of material to teach him when he was enrolled for Kindergarten. His self-esteem started to drop, his whole demeanor changed, he was miserable, he told me he felt like he was all by himself. We knew that a public K with 24-26 in a class would not work (I taught K in my county for over 15 years) so we pulled him from school and dove head first into homeschooling. It meant me leaving my career, but after just a handful of months, we have our happy child back, his self-esteem is returning, his sense of adventure and love of exploration is back. Homeschooling him was the best thing we could have done given the circumstances. It was a tough decision and no, not every day is butterflies and roses - some days are difficult, but just seeing his old self back is worth everything! :-) We have joined 2 large homeschooling groups in our county and he is spending more time socializing then he ever did when he was in preschool.

AMS,

Thank you for starting this thread and to all those that have added such insight (especially KTC, what a wonderful thoughtful post). Let me start by saying that I have been one of those people that balk at the thought of homeschooling and have always used socialization as my main ammo. And I can list a few grown ups that were homeschooled as my examples for why socialization is a concern. But since diving into giftedness and what it really means I see my argument going into the recycle bin. Gifted children for the most part have issues with socialization period and no matter if they are in main stream public school or private school, charter or homeschooled there is still a possibility that they are going to stick out socially. So while figuring all of this out my DH and I have had many a conversation about our DD and the future plans and fears of what is to come. With these conversations we have discussed that homeschooling is an option. A huge step for me since I would never have thought I would venture down that path period but still I have to admit that I see it as a last resort and am still not 100% convinced that it is the best thing.

But reading this thread has gotten me one step closer to acceptance and I really appreciate the openness of it all. I guess I really need to have an open mind to all of it and start researching the good and bad of homeschooling.

Having options is what it's all about, Katelyn's Mom!

I'd love it if every HG kid had a flexible public school that kept the HG and PG together for large chunck of the day and was committed to noticing and accomidating the individual needs of this very diverse group! It should be free and within a short commute.

Do we have enough HG and PG kids to make this work? - Unknown.

Do we have the political will as a country to fund this? So far, no, but it is a worthy goal.

Do we have the expertise to actually be able to notice and accomidate the needs of every HG and PG kid? - I don't think we have it on a wide scale yet.

So for now, we are all in the position of piecing together a workable combination of situations.

I could easily imagine things getting dramatically better over the next 5 years. I sure hope it does!

Grinity

Belle,

We were making the HSing decision at the same time I think. I'm glad to read it is going well. It's going well on this end. It was rough going at first, reversing bad habits etc but now it's working well. I'm still learning and tweaking but it's working well and DS is happy! It's better now that his best bud who is very HG+ is also HSing so they get together 2x/week to play/PE.

My husband and I enrolled our son in half-day public kindergarten at age 5 for the "social" benefits. He didn't go to preschool and was the only child at home so he was looking forward to going to school. He did enjoy some things about kindergarten but he said it wasn't very educational. He liked talking to the teachers. He liked reading his reports to go along with his "letter of the week" show & tell.

But Kindergarten is where he first learned that he was "different" because he talked more like an adult than a 5 year old and he liked to read science encyclopedias and National Geographic magazine for fun. He found that bullies target kids who are different. I remember talking to my family about the bullying problem at the school and my sister told me she felt that bullying in school made her stronger so she saw learning to deal with bullies as a social benefit. The rest of my family agreed with me that it was not. I think the school's bullying problem might have been part of the reason people at the school told us we should homeschool. An article in Science Daily www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080422143529.htm says Social Form of Bullying Linked to Depression, Anxiety in Adults.

In Kindergarten my son learned he had to sit "criss-cross applesauce hands in your lap" and only listen to the teacher and not ask questions about anything she read. He learned that it was important to stifle his curiosity while he was at school. He learned that singing in the restroom was not allowed. He learned that coloring in the lines was very important because the teacher said so. Kids tried to tell him there was a five second rule and if you dropped food on the floor and picked it up within 5 seconds it was okay to eat. He learned to stay close to the teacher at recess so the bullies couldn't do anything to him. Those are the things he remembers. So I guess if those things are important, than Kindergarten was good for my son.

At 10, he has excellent social skills and is comfortable talking to people of all ages. His sister (18 years older) likes talking to him so much that she calls him 4 or 5 times a day. When his sister and her boyfriend went out to eat with us recently, he was the one keeping the conversation going. She commented that he could talk about anything. She held up the ketchup bottle and said she thought he could even carry on a conversation about a ketchup bottle if he wanted to. So he took that as a challenge and talked about the actual making of the bottle and the materials that might have been used to make it (He likes to watch How It's Made) and then he went on to talk about the ketchup and I don't remember what all he said but it was funny.

I think he would have much more anxiety and much less self confidence if he were in our public school. His emotional health is very important to me.

Wow, thank you all for you responses. There are so many things I want to respond to on here (I haven't commented in a few days)...Let's see...I'm going to reply in list form so as to make it more logical for those reading this

1-) let me give a nutshell background on my DH. Probably should have done this sooner. He is HG (maybe even PG) and when he was in school the teacher's perceived him as having a learning disability b/c of his hyperactivity and refusal do do the mediocre work they assigned him. The school decided to fail him one year, and the next year they attempted "fail" him again mid-year by placing him in a lower grade. After 2 days, that teacher took him back to his original class and stated "There is nothing wrong with this boy. He is extremely smart and does NOT belong in my class. You just need to challenge him more." Well nothing came of her comment and his mother (obviously my MIL that I spoke of in the original post) did not stand up for him and instead attempted to handle the situation by chastising him continuously for not "applying himself". He spent the rest of his school years skipping class, making D's and F's, and sleeping during class. Finally, at 17 and in 9th grade, he dropped out and got his GED. He placed 1st in the class and 4th in the state on his GED test despite never attending class. I do not want this to happen to our DD5! which is why I am so desperate to find her the resources she needs.

2-) If she has a problem, she always comes to mom first b/c she shows mom is the understanding one and will listen to her. Dad is more of the blunt straight-to-the point one. So therefore, she comes to me with her concerns and I then have to relay them second-hand to her dad. Therefore he doesn't get the emotion and urgency behind her unhappiness at school.

3-) I've told him many times about homeschooling groups and meetups. I have even provided him with countless pieces of information on the learning needs of GT students. If I bring up the topic he is on board with me so long as he has not had any "contact" with his mother within the last 24 hours. If he has spoken to her recently, he will be very resistant and combative when I bring up the subject of HSing or GTness. So there's definitely something there. I should probably mention that my MIL is a very brash narcissistic woman.

4-) Katelyn'sM om: I love your post. My DH has the same feelings on socialization as you. He always points to adults he knows that were HSed and says "see, xyz is a shy hermit with absolutely zero social skills. Have you ever even heard them speak? Do you want our kid to turn out like that?" as ammo for his socialization issue. He also uses The Dugger's (have you heard of the family with 16+ kids from arkansas?) as ammo that "all HSers are raised by religious nutcases". Oh, if I had a dime for every time I heard these...

5-) Lori H.: I so agree with you as well! I have often commented that the only things DD5 has learned in K is how to
a-) eat her snack before her sandwich (which she never did before),
b-) count by pointing to each individual dot and saying "1,2,3,etc as she touches each one (she used to be able to sight count. you know look at a collection of dots and immediately state the number)
c-) not ask questions and instead sit quietly and listen
d-) not sit too close to the other students b/c if one of them speaks, she will get in trouble as though she was the one who talked
e-) not to interact with the other kids b/c if she uses leadership skills she is being "bossy" and thus will get a conduct mark.
f-) etc, etc, etc.

6-) I called the board of education the other day and requested info and paperwork on homeschooling. When I told DD5 that I should be receiving the info in the mail soon and I was going to read over the paperwork and make my decision, there was an instantaneous 180 of her demeanor! That day she brought me home 2 100's on her tests and a perfect conduct mark. She became happy and chipper again. Her eyes now appear bright as opposed to cloudy and distant. Someone "turned on the light switch" as well, b/c she has started asking the well-above-her-years questions and eating better again. I just wish my DH would make the connection between her change in demeanor and what I said.

The papers haven't arrived yet, but by simply mentioning it, I got my child back. That alone seems to be the fact that has tipped the scales for me. This is something I have to do. Warrior mom is here! Thanks quys!

Oh, and one last thing. When we lived in Memphis, her pediatricians knew/suspected she was GT and would talk to me about it. When she had her school physical with a Dr. she had never met, he even asked me if she was GT. I said I think so. We have since moved to a really small town (my DH's hometown in Nwest TN) to escape the crime of the big city. There is NO Pediatrician here only family doctors. There is NO psychologist for GT's. There are NO GT teachers (although the school does have special education teacher that teaches a pull-out program for the advanced students starting with 3rd grade). So if anyone knows of anyone in Nashville, Memphis, Jackson, or within driving distance of any of these places please, please let me know. Right now it looks like I am on my own. Would contacting her old pediatrician for advice get me anywhere? Thanks again!

You can bet that it is not uncommon for your DH and my argument. And if I were to talk to him myself I probably would be able to speak his language (so to speak) b/c for me it has always been the socialization argument but what I was trying to say is I am not so judgmental as before. Don't get me wrong. I still have issues with it but am now including it in my vocabulary as an option. Here is the sad thing as I read your background on your husband. He should be fighting tooth and nail to ensure that his DD does not go down the same path that he did and (I know this is wrong of me and I have no right to say this since I don't know your MIL) your MIL had her chance to raise her child and she blew it so now she needs to back off and let you (the parents) do what you think is best for your child.

Here is a discussion I had with a friend of mine at lunch today. Yes I was talking about this post and how I am really changing my mind about homeschooling or at least not going to the typical 'socialization' argument for why I disapprove. And my friend has also been antihomeschooling. I brought up my point of GT kids and socialization issues as posted earlier. But we also talked about the very important component of why you would choose to homeschool. Is it the best option or is there some religious component such as (yes we said it) the Duggars. Yep I am very aware of the Duggar family. So I get where your husband is coming from but here is a little secret I will share with you that I myself am just starting to realize. I think part of my fear of homeschool is a perception problem. How will the rest of my neighbors, friends, and family perceive it and what criticism will I endure. I know it is a little shallow but I have to wonder if that is a big part of your DH hangup on it. Than the other issue I have is how do I tackle this so that I am giving my child the absolutely best education and isn't it narcissistic of me to think I have all the answers in that department? I really think the last comment is my biggest obstacle to it all. (and please don't take this as a stab to all of you that homeschool b/c I certainly don't mean it that way. I am just saying that everyone has strengths and I don't know if I would be structured enough to organize my child's education in a way that would be the best for her.)

All of this said I just want to say that it does sound like you have enough of a reason to pull your child and home school and I really hope that your DH comes around. And I guess through all of this post what I am really trying to state is I am very much like your DH in my views but you have won me over on why you see it as a necessity to homeschool your DD.

Thanks for your open mind, Katelyn'sMom. I would never try to talk anyone into choosing it for their kids, but I do think it is a valid option that people who are NOT nuts sometimes choose, and I wish more people thought so. I am always happy to see myths fall by the wayside!

My thought about the socialization argument: I'll bet I could name off a long list of kids I know at public school with "issues" in the social area: "backwards" kids, kids with anxiety issues that make them hard to talk to, bullies, troublemakers, etc. The difference is that we choose not to blame public school for their problems, as people often choose to blame homeschool.

Anecdotally, FWIW, 99% of the homeschooled kids that I see are fun, pleasant, highly social, very "normal" kids. If they are unusual, it's because they tend to be less judgemental of others and more poised around adults than the average kid. They are fun to be around!

Are there some with "issues"? Yup. There's one in particular who can't keep his hands to himself who gives my DH fits at Cub Scouts! And it's a parenting problem, for sure. But I see no more kids with social problems than I saw when DS7 was in public school. Probably a lot fewer!

Why is it that we think that parents cannot do a good job of teaching kids how to behave in society after they reach age 5? I did fine up to that point. Why would I suddenly be incapable of it now? I know my kids need time with other kids. So does every other parent! They get it. It may not look like school, but school isn't exactly a natural environment...you know?

Just my musings...

At our house, we talk about the 'association doesn't equal causation' trap.

or - as DS12 puts it - 'Carrots kill people, i know because almost every dead person has eaten at least one carrot!'

This affected us personally with a very unhappy boy who got a gradeskip in our elementary school about a decade before we got there. This Kindergardener was reading at late high school level, so they decided a single gradeskip was the best thing. Are you suprised that this kid had trouble fitting it with his target class? I'm not! But I was suprised that our well meaning school principle felt like a failure and took it personally. I tried to help her see that the association between gradeskip and social isolation never implied a causation. In this case, the cause of both the grade skip and the social isolation was probably a third factor (his PG brain.) So sad that this common logic trap forms so many of our perceptions!

Do a lot of antisocial people homeschool? I'll bet they do! Do the children grow up antisocial? I'll bet they do! Would they have grown up antisocial if they had attended a school? I'll bet they would.

Do I think Lorel and Kriston are homeschool because they are antisocial? No I don't! I think they are trying to met their children's needs. While I think that most homeschoolers are do have a healthy skeptasism toward athority, (one would almost have to to be strong enough to homeschool) I think that's a good thing, especially for parents of kids with unusual needs. LOL - If we parents of Gifties didn't start out skeptical, watching our children suffer while we get blamed by schools would sure encourge that growth of our inner skeptics!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

So right, Grinity! Right on the mark!

I agree, kcab. I have a mentor who is the same way, and she has greatly influenced my idea of the fluidity of types of education. Homeschooling is a wholly reversible educational choice.

We may very well wind up homeschooling DS7 for all of his elementary school years, then wind up putting him back into school for junior high and high school. And it wouldn't surprise me a bit if we do the inverse for DS4: school for early elementary and homeschool for later. But we're taking it as it comes.