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Hey guys! Well I am again considering-seriously considering- homeschool for my DD5. Just to give some background:
I was planning on HSing her this year, but DH and MIL pressured me into enrolling her in public school for the "social" benefits. (The word "social" makes me cringe !! They both use this word so excessively it's like that's all they care about!) While I by no means tend for my child to be a hermit, I do believe that every child is different and not all children benefit from being in large groups (myself and my husband both prefer small groups and "clam up" in large groups so he should be understanding). And, there are other ways to learn social skills. She participates in martial arts for 2 hours a day 5 days a week and wants to start gymnastics as well so in my mind, the "social" part is taken care of. I should also mention that my MIL has stated several times that she wants my child to "show everybody else up" and "show them how much smarter she is than the other kids" (whose parents my MIL knows). So I believe she has an almost selfish "one-track" agenda and is not taking my DD's needs into consideration. And I have tried explaining to her that DD is not going to "show everyone else up" as she puts it b/c she is in a sense being held back and made to work at the pace of the other students. Any thoughts I might be missing? OHgrandma, if you read this, I am interested in any pointers you may have on how to verbalize the unique learning needs of GT kids to my MIL. I know that she is our child and therefore it's our decision, but my MIL calls at least once a day to say things like "she likes school doesn't she?", "she's doing good isn't she", and "I'm so happy she's going to school and making friends; she needs to make friends". It's almost like she's tongue-in-cheek saying "Don't you dare pull her out!"
My DD5 told me today (and many times before) that she didn't want to go to school. "The kids laugh at me and the teacher gets me into trouble even if I didn't do anything wrong. My only favorite teacher was in preschool (she had a GT teacher then at a private school before we moved to this very small town)." She then proceeded to tell me that I needed to go to the store today while she is at school and buy a chalkboard and books for her b/c I "know how to teach her kindergarten". She tried everything to stall from not liking her pants and shoes to being tired to eating breakfast extremely slow. Her grades are beginning to suffer and she is missing test questions that she knows the answer to. I know grades don't really matter at this age, but I am concerned about her emotional needs.
How damaging would it be for her to continue?
I want to pull her out now, but can I?
Can I HS 1st grade at night while she is enrolled in kindergarten at a public school?
Or should I let her finish this year out and then homeschool starting this summer?
How should I handle the resistance and snide remarks from my MIL/her grandma!?
Help!!! Thanks!

I started HSing DS last year when he started 1st grade. He went to PS K, and although he did very well, he just was not being challenged at all. My IL's were very against it, and DH wasn't exactly thrilled with the idea of HSing. After just one month of HSing, everyone could see how DS was blossoming because he could go at his own speed. At that point they were all completely for it. And now MIL is my biggest cheerleader. DH is very supportive, too. And DS couldn't be happier.

I am planning to send DD to K in the fall. She is not as advanced as DS was, but she is already reading and writing. Because of the social aspect, I don't think she will be board, though. We will see how it goes.

My advice to you is to do what you feel is right for your child. Don't let others influence that. Once they see how well it's working for you and her, they will have no choice but to be happy too. LOL!

Yes, you can pull her now! Since she was enrolled with the school district, there will, probably, be some paperwork. Familiarize yourself with your state's homeschool laws - HSLDA.org is a good resource for this. In most states the age of compulsory schooling is six; so depending on where you live, your daughter may not legally be required to go. Also, since (I'm guessing) you are on winter break this is a good time for some deschooling and to start making plans for the upcoming sememster. Remember, it doesn't have to look like school or be school-at-home to be educational. Trust yourself!
MM

A book recommendation for your MIL:

http://www.rachelgathercole.com/

This will take socialization out of the conversation.

good luck!

Hi--I am new to this forum, but not new to gifted education and all that goes with it. We have been through many of the same experiences that you described.

I am a retired teacher and I never expected teachers to be intimidated by our son's intelligence. I've always loved learning and was fascinated when a student would tell me something new (if in doubt, I asked them to find out more...).

When our son took in a model of the solar system that he had painted accurately for show and tell at age 6, his teacher talked to me and commented that he knew more about the planets than she did--not in awe or as a compliment, but more like she felt foolish and a little annoyed. I've never understood that--there is a place for everyone. I am very grateful that my surgeon is gifted, but he couldn't fix my car....This is part of the socialization concept that we share with our son.

We had many times of balking and disliking school in our son's early elementary years. After he was tested, he was accelerated for science for two years, but then it wasn't possible because of the distance of the other building.

In third grade, I contacted a nearby college whose Honors College students then began mentoring gifted children. His mentors were wonderful--chemistry, geology, mechanical engineering, astronomy, computer science and on and on. He loved it and the only requirement was that they did something "cool" in that subject and the college student would share their knowledge (which I did not have). I am way out of physics, but I have learned a lot! I watched one day to make sure he was paying attention to his mentor. He was 8 years old and she was doing a lecture with diagrams on DNA and RNA (biochemistry major). He was sitting as still and engrossed as possible. I was thrilled and amazed. Later, she told me that he finally asked a question and she was elated. She said that every question she asked him, he understood and knew. She said "Finally! Something he didn't get". This didn't happen in the regular third grade class....

Mentors worked very well until he finished fourth grade. Fifth grade teachers in that school district and nearby ones refused to allow mentors...I knew he would never make it without mentors--just doing repetitive worksheets and hearing about topics he already understood (and that teacher would get upset about if he knew more than they did--like knowing the moons of Mars...happened).

This was time to home school and it was time for me to retire. We are members of a wonderful group of parents that are homeschooling their gifted children (parents are engineers, doctor, teachers, lawyers, a pilot, business owners and on and on). We have great field trips. He loves seeing these kids. His first comment to me on the first trip was "These kids understand what I'm talking about".

We have been doing this for almost 5 years and our son loves it. Each year, I ask if he wants to go back to "school-school" and he always replies 'NO!'

We use the internet for endless resources including AP books that are online for free from colleges. We've found some amazing sites as well as a list of topics to guide us when needed. He is also at the age where he self instructs--especially in computer science. He's taught me about Irfanview this year and I enjoy it! Most of what he's doing --level design, using 3DS Max, creating portals, tessellations, Audacity and other 'stuff', I don't understand. But I don't need to. He does....I guide the day with chores and academics (literature, algebra and geometry, geography, history--had a great time with the election)before
he can do independent computer science. He even has contact with kids from other states and countries (cautious, of course) that play games together, answer questions about each other's weather, terrain etc, exchange webcam photos--like the snow in our yard to a friend in Florida, exchange other info about the area (no address or full names, of course), and have talked online with a microphone (that's geography history, civics and socializing, too).

While we don't have mentors now (he's 14 and the college has told us that he is 'too advanced' for a Honors College mentor), we do go to the college for events. Last fall we went to the college to the Grad Students' Open House for Computer Science and Engineering (which he loves). They were kind enough to allow us. In small groups, we visited Embodied Intelligence Lab, Biometric Research, and Media Technology Lab. Each place had an explanation and demonstrations. He really loved this. I had no clue, but enjoyed his chance to interact with others that shared his love of learning.

Next, we are going to the same college to meet with a professor in cellular biology (we are doing AP Biology--book, great websites and book online from a college). The professor does research in bacteria, fungi and mold and will also show us around the bioenergy research lab.

Soooooo-----as far as homeschooling goes, saying that socialization is missing in home school is plain, old lame. The truth in my opinion is that kids in the U.S. are grouped together by age for the ease of the school system and our archaic methods of memorizing trivia for a test as opposed to understanding a concept, of not using technology as much as we should and the way we don't do more to help them investigate a career or occupation.

My last year of teaching was in fourth grade. My students ranged from reading at a first grade level to reading at a high school level. If the difference is that great in intellectual ability, how can it be the same in maturity for socializing? If same age doesn't matter, than socializing with all ages is what counts.

A very talented young teacher heard that I was retiring and going to home school our son. He asked if I wasn't concerned about socialization...I replied that if we could only work with people our own age than he and I never could have worked together--I'm old enough to be his mother... He nodded, grinned and said he had never thought of it that way.

In this world, socialization really means knowing how to appreciate, be kind to others, to get to know others and work with people of all ages. When you take your child to a family reunion, that is socializing. Shopping is too Going to the library is... Having a friend over is...So is every trip to a wonderful college or museum or whatever your child loves (planetarium, rocketry, Bug House, the list is endless...). That's socializing--not sitting in your seat doing papers with no talking.

OK, I'm off my soapbox and sorry if I am too long, but I wanted to share that I have taught and I am still teaching so I have experienced both sides. I am also learning--- he's is so far above me that I'm "along to the ride" and I guide--writing with "stick and clay tablet" instead of typing is a challenge for him.

Do what is best for your child and then look up the many famous scientists, statesman/woman, poets, authors, inventors and more that were homeschooled. It will help you know.

Good luck and yes, you can pull your child out from school and put them back if needed. In our state, we didn't even have to fill out any papers.

Karen

Sing it, sister! I couldn't agree more.

And I hope you'll stick around the forum. I am currently homeschooling my 7yo boy*, and I could use your experience and expertise as we go through the process. I'm especially interested in the mentoring you've used. We haven't gotten there yet, but I think we'll need to find someone for him sooner rather than later.

*We also have a 4yo boy--an extrovert--whom we're going to try at school and see how it goes. He loves pre-K, so we're hoping that maybe he'll love elementary school, too. Fingers crossed!

YEAH wonderful post Karen!!!!!

Hi AMS! Welcome!

You've got a tough row to hoe here! Looks like DH is under that common mistaken assumption that if he had been raised differently that he would have a different temperment. My own DS12 has been telling me lately that he wishes I had put him in a crib as a baby so that he would be more solid sleeper now, so I know that even very intelligent people can make this mistake.

I believe that each parent has a moral obligation to their child to do as best they can for their child, even if this is different from what the spouse thinks, if the situation is extreame enough. But what a difficult path this is. If you want to keep your marriage, then it is imperitive that you spend lots of time and energy negotiating and listening to your DH, and try and see if the two of you can come to a middle road.

You will need this 'united front' with DH in order to prevent your DD5 from learning to play one off the other anyway.

Once you have decided on your 'united front' they it's time to share with MIL how bad she is making to feel and what you think that she is trying to imply. First I would try and listen to her and see where she got her ideas. My hunch is that if you listen with love and respect, and remember that these ideas had to make sense at some point in her past,then eventually she will loosen up. Something pretty major must have happened to her to feel that survival and 'showing up' are so linked. If you can't actually muster listening with love and respect and an open mind, then you can at least listen as best you can and figure out where the 'holes in her logic' are, so you can calmly reply with 'I hear that you feel X, but DH and I feel Y, and I don't want to discuss it anymore today.' Then quickly change the subject. As much as she loves her Grandaughter, she must have some other interests.

So, you have an unhappy daughter. She wants a blackboard and your teaching attention. Of course you can 'Afterschool' her and teach her whatever you both enjoy and is in her 'readiness level.' That may be first grade, 2nd grade or something else entirely. Once you get an idea of what she is actually thrilled to learn, (this might take a little as 3 weeks) put together a portfolio and bring it to the teacher and then the gifted coordinator or school principle, asking that your dd's special educational needs be met.

Although you have pulling her out mid-year as an option, of course it builds up the idea that if something in life is uncomfortable, then it can be walked away from. This isn't the worst lesson you can teach, but given that your DH is not yet firmly on your side, then perhaps a better alternative is to 'fight' the system and see if you can get a full gradeskip or subject accelerations. I expect that the social aspects would improve, although she might find the kids big and scary, it might be just the opposite, as she sees that they behave closer to her own self-expectations. As you go through your own assesment and demonstrate to your DH what her special educational needs are, and bring him along the 'grade-skip' advocacy road, my hunch is that he will start to see the situation as you do, and become an ally for the 'homeschool alternative.'

It's hard to tell from your post if she is really at the 'pull her at any cost' stage, or if you have the rest of the year to model going after difficult things (a grade skip) and then keep her home next year. There doesn't happen to be a wonderful 1st grade teacher at your school does there?

If switching to a private school sounds more appealing that a grade skip in the regular school (smaller classes, more unit studies approach) then perhaps that's a better 'paper tiger' to persue. The key is to have some kind of negotiation with DH. (the book 'Getting to Yes' is wonderful)

I haven't mentioned the alternative kind of assesment, which is to hire a professional and get their advice. IF you can find one that is a resource for 'well, what do we do next' and perhaps for helping parents learn to 'be on the same team' that would be even better. If you can say what your 'traveling range' is, we can try to suggest an expert. Perhaps you already have had a professional assesment, and can use that person as a resource.

((Handshake))
You are now recieving your 'Mom Scout Sash' and I look forward to you earning 'badge' after 'badge' in all the challenging aspects of love and parenting, Congratulations!

Grinity

Does your DH really see your daughter's situation clearly? Has he spent time with her after school, say, listening to her talk about how she feels? Has he visited the school to observe? Or is he just ignoring her reality (and yours!) and wishing that things will get better? Does he understand that there are homeschooling groups and classes so that HSed kids get social time with groups? It's NOT locking the kid in the basement and throwing books down the stairs to her!

I agree with Grinity that parents MUST put on a united front, but my DH and I also think that the parent who is not home with the kids gets less of a vote about how they're raised. I don't go to his office and tell him how to do his job--though he consults with me and asks my advice when it helps him--and he doesn't come to my job at home with the kids and tell me how to do it as if he knows better--though I talk through what to do with him and ask his advice on a daily basis. We play to our strengths.

If he had a strong objection to something I'm doing, that would be a big concern for me and we'd certainly talk a lot about it. But he respects my take on the kids and he understands that since I'm the primary caregiver and I'm with the kids much more than he is, my take is probably more accurate than his. He doesn't second-guess me. He supports me.

We jointly made the decision to homeschool, but much of the "evidence" we used to come to that decision was based on my observations of our son and the school. Therefore, what I said and how I felt greatly influenced his position.

Now, in your case, it seems to me that your primary problem is that your husband doesn't really respect your take on the kids. Either he needs firsthand evidence that your DD is not where she belongs (because your view cannot be trusted) or you need to change the nature of your relationship and introduce more respect.

Personally, I'd address that basic problem in the relationship first, before dealing with the issue of what to do about your DD's education. I think it's time for a long talk with your DH after the kids are in bed. You can't do your job if he doesn't respect you.

As for your MIL, silently remind yourself that it's not her child, and while she can certainly have an opinion and express it, it doesn't mean you have to do anything about it! You and your DH are the only votes that truly matter. Do listen to what she has to say. Do ask questions and really dig into why she thinks as she does, because a) she might have some good points that you haven't heard, and b) she will feel better and less required to push you if she knows she has been really listened to. But listening does NOT mean that you and your DH have to do what she wants. Your child, your decision.

If you do decide to homeschool, you will have to have a series of hard talks with your MIL. I figured my mom would be the judger when we were considering homeschooling, and my approach was to talk with her before the decision was made to ask what her concerns were. Then I researched her concerns and shared what I had learned with her. Finally, after many talks, I informed her that we had decided to homeschool, and while I knew she was nervous about that decision, I hoped that we would have her support. Because I had listened to her throughout--even soliciting her opinion!--and I had taken her concerns seriously, she became surprisingly supportive. I don't think she's completely on board. She still wishes DS were in a traditional school. But she isn't undermining me, and she even taught him a science lesson once when they were visiting. So I consider the process a success!

Finally--and importantly--I have to address the "pulling a child out mid-year teaches her it's okay to quit when things are hard." I find that point of view very troubling.

If you pull a child out of an activity everytime she whines a little, then yes, it's a problem. I don't think that helicopter parenting is at all good for kids.

But taking a deeply miserable child out of a lousy educational fit once in her young life teaches a child that you see her experiences as they really are, you love her, and that she can trust you even when things are at their worst. Is it better to leave the child in the bad situation? What does that teach her? That school is awful and her parents don't care if she is unhappy and depressed. Not better!

Half a school year is a LOOOOOOONG time for a 5yo. Given what you've described, I think you are right that something needs to change. I definitely think that emotional damage can be done in a bad educational situation. All kinds of bad habits are taught in a bad school fit: underachievement, "I'm stupid," poor work ethic, etc.

I would ask this: overall, is school making her a better person or a worse one? If it's not making her better, then what's the point?

If your mom gut is telling you that homeschooling is the answer, I think you have to take that seriously. There are many ways to fix a bad situation, and considering many ways to solve the problem before you make a decision is smart. More choices are better than fewer, and maybe you've overlooked something. Maybe the school is willing and able to adapt for your DD. But there IS a problem here, and it is time to find a solution.

If you've explored your options and your gut says to pull her out, then I think you need to work to make that happen.

We pulled DS out of 1st grade because he had gone from a happy, friendly, rule-abiding boy to a cranky, angry, sad kid who lost recess time nearly every day and hit his brother when he got home. He was receiving no adaptations whatsoever, and he was suffering. We didn't see any way our very rigid "We're a very good school" school system was going to make things better for him. After about 6 weeks of 1st grade, we pulled him out for homeschooling, and his behavior returned to normal IMMEDIATELY! We're now in our 2nd year of homeschooling, and it has been so good for him.

It's not the solution for everyone, but it is a valid solution. And he functions very well in groups!

Nice Post Kriston. I love hearing how your developed your relationship with your DS's grandmother.

I don't exactly know what I meant by saying that a mid-year pull 'builds up the idea' - it think I was trying to say that there are potential downsides and that each situation has to be weighed individually. My thought for AMS was that if she was already good at fighting difficult battles, then she would have told DH to get with her and MIL to 'can it' a long time ago.

Actually the lesson that some situations can and must be walked away from (like in your son's situation) is a wonderful lesson. I just know how hard it's been with my own son and afterschool activities to walk that line between 'not wanting to raise a quitter' and 'not wanting to keep my son in a situation that feels wrong to him.' In our situation it is at the point where he is too big to 'force' anymore in anything less than dire situations. This is one of the things that I resent about how most current school systems treats gifted kids.

Fact is that many of our little gifties are very bossy and so logical that is it so easy to grant them more adult discretion that weI should. It's been a major challenge for me to honor my son's individuality without letting him run the show. I don't get the sense that you have had that challenge so far. Personally, I'm the most 'ballsy' female I know locally, and I'm still a 'pushover!' So frustrating.

Anyway, AMS, we'd love to hear more about how things have been for your daughter in the classroom and what you try and how it works out. We are all feeling our way here, with lots of tender spots as we go.

Love and More Love,
Grinity