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These all sound like fantastic ideas; I enjoyed reading this thread.
Here is my current out-of-left-field idea for injecting some enthusiasm for writing into my ds' life: I have signed him up for a once-a-week cartooning class; supposedly they will be working on character development, which I hope means some writing of words... if not, it should still be fun for him, he is really really excited about it. It starts in a week or so and goes for a couple of months.

I've found that having them organize their thoughts so they can build on them is to use index cards. First, they think of the main point they want to make. Then they can identify points (statements) to support the main idea. Each point is written on each card. Then their examples, perhaps real life experiences, to elaborate with can be written down. Then, all cards can be laid out on a table and arranged in a logical order in a way that builds. Working with these visuals can help make it all more concrete for them. Some things for writers to ask themselves: How can I begin with a strong sentence that incites curiosity in the reader? What adjectives can be stronger than my first choices? Verbs, etc. What creative similes can I use that entertain the reader and bring the point home? (I was as happy as a cat in a fishery.) What words can I eliminate to tighten it up? How can I wrap it up at the end in a creative, uncommon way? It helps for them to look at good examples of writing to learn from them. It helps, when reading a nonfiction storybook with them, to point out the creative sentences and the ways the writer builds.

Idea mapping is another good way to get organized. It sometimes works better for visual-spatial people. Here they call it a "mind map," but it's the same thing. It's a bit more free-association and more visual than a lot of organizational methods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_map

I'll add that I think *no* writer should be required to use any particular method to get organized. The only thing that matters is what works. Some people need extensive organizational tools or crutches and some need a couple of hastily jotted notes and they're good to go. I was required to use index cards on a paper when I was in high school, and it very nearly made me nuts. It's a GREAT method, but it wasn't a good method at all for ME--I wrote all the cards after I wrote the paper.

Drafting is pretty much the only process that *everyone* should use, and even there, some people draft virtually finished work the first time out. That respect of a person's own needs has to be okay.

Offer possibilities to a student, but let the child play with them as s/he likes and see what works. Some things will and some things won't. The child will usually tend to gravitate toward what helps him/her. Follow that!

Sorry to keep chiming in. Everyone is posting such good stuff that I can't seem to help myself. Plus I am enjoying getting to use my writing/teaching stuff again!

This is a big relief Melmichigan! First gifted denial makes us think that our kids are 'average' - then gifted denial makes us think that there is something terribly wrong when our kids actually perform at an average level. ((shrug)) All part of our learning process!

I think that age 9 is a terrific age to start teaching 'keyboard skills' or 'touch typing' if you haven't already. Just pick up an instuctional program and figure out a way for her to spend 15 minutes a day, just like a musical instrument. I know that you are asking about 'Writing' and it might not look to some what being able to type comfortably has to do with creating an essay, or telling a story in words, but I wouldn't try to teach tennis to a kid who didn't know how to run, would any of you? Even if you could find a crawler who understood the rules or tennis, and could manage to hit a ball with a racket, what fun would it be without being able to run from one spot to another.

So - if I ever get to homeschool 'Language Arts' this is how I would approach the subject:

1) Break LA down into all the component skills and practice them seperatly and, at times, together.

spelling - pre tests and post tests, and teaching the child the knack of sitting down and rote memorizing on their own, if only for 90 seconds.

grammer - units and practice from a book.

Art of writing appreciation - use the 6+1 traits to analyse how wonderful storytelling makes us feel. How did the author do what she did?

Reading - what are the catagories of written material? Where are they found in a library? How might one sample a work and see if it's interesting? Which Genres does one like? How do two books compare and contrast?

Typing - learning the mechanical skill of keyboarding without looking at one's fingers.

Powerpoint presentations - teaches skills that used to be used in outlines

Using a video camera to record the child telling stories, or acting them out with dolls, etc.

Daily Journal writing.

Graphic Organizer practice: http://www.brightminds.us/getProduc...ction_to_display=product_sample_page.jsp

Some pre-research paper writing skills - Having a poster with 'fill in the blank' spaces about onself or a famous person, and filling in the blanks. Check out 'Big 6' as a cookbook approach to research.

There must be more, but I'm going through all this to show that there is a lot more to learning to write for a 9 year old than 'brainstorm-outline-rough draft-polish.'

I totally agree that writing daily is key. I'm not so sure that 'correcting' the daily writing is so important.

Here's the big exciting finish: I think that some students benifit from being taught to 'brainstorm-outline-rough draft-polish' and all children should at least be exposed to that method, BUT for some gifted children, like my DS12, it isn't what he needs or finds helpful.

He does much better 'automatic writing' then copy /paste/delete for the organizational step, then copy edit. To tell the truth, 90% of his copy edit goes on during his 'automatic writing' - which I know is against the rules, but the kid has a monster working memory and it doesn't slow him down.


Will my DS someday write a 100 page paper and need to make an outline and note cards? I would guess so, but until then, I'm not going to force him into it, just check that he knows how for when the time comes, KWIM?

I just miss the time that I wasted going, "If only he would use a graphic organizer! Notecard! Whatever!"

((shrugs))
Grinity

opps! got so carried away with my post that I missed Kriston's!

That's what I mean...

Thank you, thank you...I really appreciate the input from everyone. I was warned not to make to many decisions or buy to much my first year homeschooling and I'm so glad I listened. Everyone has such wonderful ideas for me to write down and organize.

Part of my initial problem was that when all the testing was done the results given to me compared my daughter to expectations for grades a year and two ahead of her age, where she was placed for school. Now I can understand how she tests against someone her own age. Thanks Dottie! Yes, it was a very big relief, instead of a grade or two behind, she's "normal" when it comes to writing.

The hard part for me with writing is that I'm like Grinity's son. If I'm writing a report I read the information I'm going to use, put it around in my brain, and write it-end draft. I may go back and check spelling and flow since I just write, but for the most part what I write is a finished product. It's always been that way. Frustrating as it was for my teachers and parents you couldn't change it. I wrote the outline after the paper was done.

I found a writers notebook at the Lakeshore learning online store that I ordered, real inexpensive that goes through the process of writing with a section for each point in the process. It allows you to brainstorm, then fill in a draft, etc. right in the notebook. I also like the idea of picking a topic and having her write for a given time.

I looked through a teachers guide for the Voyagers in English and that may help a lot. It divides the writing process into days with a specific goal for the day, covering different types of writting. I feel a little better now! You guys are great!

Happy to be part of the solution, Melmich!

I want to point out the damage that ND teachers and systems set up for ND kids do to young gifties.
A) they don't teach you
B) they almost force the child to internalize the idea that they are flawed in some way
C) We carry this idea that we are flawed into our interactions with our own children.

Melmich?
How old were you when you started writing this way?
Did you already know how to touchtype?
How did you feel about yourself as a writer in 5th grade? 7th grade? 11th grade? Beyond?

You're daughter may be one of those kids who can make use of the ND way of teaching writing: brainstorm/organize/draft/copy edit, or she may not. It wasn't that you didn't know those steps, it was that you felt wrong because you could never see the point of those steps, yes? It was that you had deep mixed feelings about the ND 'teach you to write' path, yes?

I think that this experience points out one of the key importances of this board. You had an old 'hot button' from your own school experiences. The school told you that your daughter was 'bad' at writing. You accepted what they said at face value. When you posted here, we had other perspectives on the whole issue, because our 'hot buttons' are in other areas. You quickly 'woke up' and adopted perspectives that were better suited to moving things forward. Wow! What a marvelous transformation! What a lucky chance that you are here and had the courage to post! Yippee!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I'll reiterate that I do think even GT people use that brainstorm/organize/draft/copy edit process, Grin. Really, they do! It's just that they do those steps in their heads, or they do them so fast that people on the outside don't recognize them, or they have such an innate sense of mechanics (or organization or whatever) that they don't appear to have to do much/anything in that step.

But I have NEVER seen a person whose writing doesn't go through the brainstorm/organize/draft/copy edit process in SOME fashion and come out better on the other side with the writer feeling better about the process.

By the time I sit down to write a paper, I have done the brainstorming and organizing in my head, but I've done it, so I don't have to revise much/at all. And I have a good sense of mechanics, so I rarely need to edit much. I used to write my 5-page argument papers for my philosophy classes in the 30-60 minutes before class and get A+s on them. And that was on an old electric typewriter, not a computer! So no editing that didn't involve white-out!

But as complexity increases--and it increased for me in graduate school--the process and time to use the process becomes more important.

I recommend against viewing a person's going through the process in an abbreviated way or in a less than typical manner as meaning that the brainstorm/organize/draft/copy edit process is "an ND way of teaching writing." I disagree with that characterization. I believe strongly that this series of steps is the way the writing process works. Period. You must start with ideas (or start with a specific example and use that to develop the ideas, but it amounts to the same thing) and move to the mechanics to be effective.