Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Assessment

can any one give me advice that may help me in an upcoming discussion with out Super Intendent, it has gotten that far, regarding them using a Cogat screener and a general school psych, to assess my LD highly gifted 9 year old?

we have had her assessed by linda Silverman herself and she has been diagnosed as highly gifted with multiple Ld in visual processing and vestibular deficiencies. She gets sick taking mosts group tests and has a 154 IQ but they want us to submit her to their Cogat and their abreviated WISc, given by a general psych. It has gotten personal and I need to have her placed in the gifted program ... I have a 504 but hey want her out.

Any ideas?

It sounds like it may have gotten to the point that you may want to consider bringing an education advocate to the meeting.

Good luck.

Neato

You might want to check www.wrightslaw.com for some info on how to approach the issue of the school doing their own testing which basically duplicates what's already been done. I know that IDEA addresses this issue and at the very least encourages schools to use already available testing versus putting students through repeated testing (which can essentially stall the process and skew the results for a different outcome).

I agree that an advocate would be helpful. Do you have any resources for contacting someone?

I could use another one. we used one in the past but would like a recommendation. can you refere me to where in writs law/ I found where it says we are intitled to alternative testing and tge school can allow it but I didi not see where it mentions existing testing. can you imagine they think their in school testing is going to be more accurate than Linda Silverman's practice or that she may be doing my kid a favor or not being honest or what ever they think?

I would appreciate an advocate name... i am in Chicago area and the link or where I can find the mention of the part in writs law about existing testing.
Thank you.

Contact LS, and let her know what they are trying to do. See if she has any ideas.

BTW - what test is the 154IQ on?

thinks to ponder - how many hours a day or week is this gifted program? Does it teach the regular subjects or just 'enrichment?'

Is it worth your while to fight for?

Does your state mandate services for gifted?

Is subject acceleration a possibility? How are things going is school: is she having fun, does she have friends? Is she learning anything? How is her 'work ethic' developing?Does she like going to school?

Are the school's tests given in a group or individually?

Best Wishes,
Grinity

It is 15 hours a week this year and 20 next. she fine in school, has friends, is self conscious about the accomadations she needs and the fact one of her teachers is not very empathatic regarding her situation. The testing that gave us numbers was a full WISC and Stanford Binet and Linda's home grown assessment tools. No they do not subjetc accelerate and I would not want that given the Ld issues she has.

She is in their gifted program now but they seem to want her out for middle school since she was advocated in by the K-4 director who was fabulous and bent rules based on the needs of my kid. Now she is not calling the shots and it seems they want to make a statement. LS has been contacted and I hope she has the time to weigh in. Although if god himslef proclaimed her gifted, they may not care. It is Illinois, they do not have to.

It is worth the fight based on the teachers she would have who have expertise with the 2E kids and other student that think like she does and may have their own special quirks that may be more understanding thanthe "honors" program kind of student. She has some unique needs but does have the right to be appropriately challenged and feel comfortable where she spends herday. They have the program, they just need to agree, their process to ID the non LD gifted may not be the process that is going to Id all kids especially nes that have documented LDs.

Thanks for your advice and well wishes.

15 hours a week is great, but I would still try to eyeball exactly what goes on there. Just because a program is gifted and a kid is gifted doesn't mean that the program will be a nurturing place for a kid. What % of the kids in middle school take 'honors' classes? At our high school it is about 20%, but not the same 20% in each subject. Only honors Math in Middle school.

In my opinion, the LM IQ number is good for your personal information, but asking school administrators to 'relate' to such an old test is perhaps not worth the aggrivation. Seems like if she does make the cut on the WISC or perhaps the WISC's gifted index then you are standing on firmer ground.

The school may be making a lesson of your daughter, or they may be truly concerned about her self-esteem if she lags behind in the Gifted Classes. Honestly, I would put my kid in the position of being the 'dumbest one in the gifted class' if I could, but it does have to be hard on that kid. Kids aren't famous for taking the wider view.

If you can fight - fight! We'll be cheering you on! But if you find that it isn't getting you what you want, it's ok to put your child's immediate needs first.

((Hugs))
Grinity

You are right about Illinois, but here are a few things to consider. I'd guess it's much easier to deny a student entrance to gifted programming then to "kick" them out. Your daughter is and has been in the gifted program, so, that is in your favor.

Illinois does not require gifted programming, but your district currently provides it, that is in your favor.

There are many reasons to argue why a high IQ child would perform poorly on any test on any given day. Some argue that a child can score artificially high, which is why some districts like to do there own testing. I personally, don't think that argurment is very defensible.

Linda Silverman is an established professional in this specialty, also in your favor.

From what I've heard, you can sue successfully for accomodations in certain circumstances in Illinois. I'd guess it might cost upwards of $20,000, and I wouldn't hold out to get any of that back for damages.

I agree with Grinity, you should contact LS yourself and figure out what to do next.

These are merely my opinions, I'm not a lawyer, but I wish I was! I'd love to be able to help you!!

I wish you much success in helping your daughter.

I should add, that I'm currently choosing not to fight with our district over anything, so I agree with Grinity on the above post.

Perhaps you can let your daughter take the school tests and go from there?

She will be my third that will be in this program so I am very familiar. It is not perfect but the vibe and the teachers that are there are great. She get b's in her current gifted class and understands she will unlikely gets A's due to her eyes and she is learningthat what she knows she has learned is more valuable than a grade.

The teachers are experts with these kids it is the admin.

the test was not the SB Lm it was the SBV and the WISC IV, the SB was slightly lower than the WISc but Linda Silverman clearly included in her written evaluation she is highly gifted and Ld but can be successful with the recommendaed accomadations. When they follow the 504 we are Ok, it is the CoGAT that they want her to take and the WISc they want her to retake using thier internal psych that is the problem. Why have these to retake if they are after what is best for her>

i cannot find the mentioned writs law sectionon using existing testing... can you direct me? I am still looking.

You are so helpful thanks!

I would but once they test her and have their bad numbers and she once again throws up again, what do I do to get them to not use the numbers they have? I even spoke to the author of the CoGAT, he said it is a srceener, use the WISC!

And if I let them WISC her with an inexperienced psych, what have I learned about any progress we may have made with her therapies? I cannot re WISC her fo another year!

Thanks!!!! Youare great!

You have helped, as I have come to the conclusions you did, so we must be headed in the right direction. I am waiting LS reply. If god himself came down in the middle of the meeting and said she is gifted and needs to stay in... they would not agree so I will be discussing and hopefully not sueing.

It is shameful that a school would go this far but they are.
Thank you.

Any direction to the section in Wrights Law would be helpful. I am looking but cannot find what you mentioned.
Thanks

Here's a section about Independent Educational Evaluations that may be helpful.

http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/test.iee.steedman.htm

I found this link to a summary of the changes in IDEA that went into effect in 2005:

http://www.wrightslaw.com/idea/law.htm (link to the IDEA 2004 wording about evaluations and IEPs)


Under this heading: IDEA 2004 Statute - Changes in Key Statutes
Click on the link for:
IDEA 2004: Section 1414- Evaluations, Reevaluations and IEPs
Scroll down to page 6. There is information there about using the tests and other information provided by the parent. It's a section called Review of Existing Evaluation Data.
(sorry but I couldn't get the link to copy and paste!)

I think you can use this to advocate for the fact that the existing data you have clearly demonstrates the need and that putting her through further testing is not appropriate due to her responses to testing and the time it would take to complete the testing delaying services. I don't think there is anything in the law that says they *can't* request their own testing but you can certainly advocate that it is just not necessary. And they can't do the testing without your consent.

I would try the local Center For Independent Living that serves your area for an educational advocate:
http://www.incil.org/locations.asp
enter in your county of residence and find the CIL that serves you. Their services are free. If they don't have a youth advocate on staff they should be able to provide you with a resource of advocates. If the agency serving your county can't help then call the next closest one.

Hope this helps in your advocacy!

thank you. I will be reaing this asap and hope the volume of information will get them to want to do the right thing. Illinois lets the schools do almost whatever they want. Them forcing her to have to take tests inorder to be considered for services that have made her sick and given in accurate data is a form of discrimination based on what the Office of Civil rights has told me. I do not at all want to go this route but I am not sure if anything I can say or show them will matter at this point. sad.

Is there an ARC office or something of that sort in your area? My daughter 2E and they will send an advocate to any meeting you are to have with the school for free. You have the right to have anyone you want to attend meetings regarding your daughter under IDEA. They will often meet with you ahead of time to discuss what you are trying to accomplish and it is their job to understand and relay the law. Often the school districts aren't aware of what is and isn't required. You also have the right to delay any meetings so that an advocate can attend. That is the way it has been explained to me.

Yes!

I was just on the phone with my daughters advocate and wow. I have been reading and reading to try and educate myself but they are really up on what your rights are and what the law says. They will attend any meeting that you have, even offered to help write a letter if we decide to fight the school district in my daughters case.

I also found out that I have the right to request an IEE, or an outside independant evaluation be done if I don't agree with the schools testing, at their cost. The advocate said that once you mention that you plan to do so they are often more willing to work with you to help keep down costs. (:

Hope it helps!

I will get on this. The last advocate I used was somewhat helpful. what can I ask the appointed ones to do or say for us/ Do school usually get uglier when an appointed advocate shows up.

They already really hate us so I have nothing to loose I guess. What is ACR? I know what the OCR office is but not aware of the other.
thnaks. JoAnn

Thank you. Any chance you live near Chicago?

can you send me a PM so I can see what you have your advocate do?
JoAnn

Do you have a source to get a qualified advocate to meet with us and our school? Do I contact the State Board of ed of the Office of Civil Rights since my daughter has documented LD?
Thanks JoAnn