Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Why do our kids deserve a real education?

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"Fair isn't everyone getting the same, it's everyone getting what THEY need"

I don't know who said that.

If you ask, and someone else doesn't, is it really unfair if your child gets accomodated?

I'm not really sure that I get where you are going, MON, but I'll give you my answer:

You are the one who knows her best and loves her best and have seen other gifted kids grow up with bad outcomes that perhaps are due to long years of enforced underachievement. That is who you are. You aren't taking anything away from any other child to insist that the myth that gifted children can take care of themselves is a myth.

I'm hoping that when my hands-on parenting years are over I can go back for the kids who's parents aren't looking out for them, but for now, my family is my first priority. I'm hoping that the school folks who have come to know us will be better advocates in the future. I'm hoping that by sharing what I've tried and learned I can make a difference to your family.

I give out this website to 'questioning parents' quite frequently.

Steven Covey, in 7 Habits of Highly Effective People talks about concentrating on one's 'sphere on influence' and that if we do a good job there, the sphere will grow. I hope that's true.

Smiles,
Grinity

Would it make things 'fair' if you would/could not get as much education possible for your child? Are you denying another child an appropriate education by advocating to get an appropriate education for your child?

Do the best you can for your child. Do what you can for other children. It's not "all good", but you have to make the best of things you can.

I think maybe I know what you're getting at. Are you feeling guilt for having so much already when so many others have so little? And then even more guilt for asking for even more??!! I know I've felt this and I don't think this is just an education issue but an issue for every aspect of our lives.

I've been thinking about this in more global terms myself lately. I feel horrible for those suffering in other parts of the world but don't know what to do about it. I read something recently though that talked about doing what you can for people within your sphere of influence. That has helped me tremendously. I've been trying to do more for local charities and local things that I know need help. I can't fix the world's bigger problems, but I can do what I can do to help people I come in contact with.

As far as the education problem goes, the others are right. It isn't going to help anyone else by your not getting what your child needs. Kind of like cleaning your plate to help those starving in China. That doesn't help anyone in China, it just makes you fat! Maybe try volunteering at your child's school and help those kids who need extra help. You could tutor or just help out a bit during the day. That way you can do what you CAN do and then maybe you won't feel so bad about things you can't fix. I know it helps me to try to give back where I can.

If I'm totally off here, sorry!!!!

I've been reading "From Innocence to Entitlement: A Love and Logic Cure for the Tragedy of Entitlement" and trying to figure out what separates an entitled parent from a parent who is advocating for the needs of their child. It came up again when I read the Davidson Advocacy Guidelines Dottie posted in the Advocacy Tips for Teacher Meeting Thread. One of the recommendations is "avoid feelings of entitlement."

The analogy of cleaning your plate to help starving kids in China is a good one! The sphere of influence idea helps too.
Thanks

Dear master of none,

I know what you mean, too, and I think there have been some good suggestions here already. I have a couple of thoughts to add; feel free to ignore them if they don't speak to your situation.

I don't think there's anything wrong at all in advocating for your daughter; for one thing, you can't see the future--perhaps she will become a woman who is a real force for good in the world--maybe her "real education" will prepare her to do some good work that nobody else can do. Goodness knows the world's problems need some smart people working on them! I really believe that we all have a job to do in life; yours right now is being the best mother for her that you can be, and that's what you're doing.

I also think that part of her education can be having her think about our good fortune relative to the rest of the world, in terms that she can handle according to her age and sensitivity. Obviously you don't want to overwhelm her with misery, but perhaps you could help her find ways herself to make the world better a little bit at a time, even as a child. The boys write to our foster children in Senegal and Zimbabwe, they help me with charity craft projects for organisations like Save the Children and Afghans for Afghans, they help out with volunteer work that I do in our local community--it's important to us that they see that even though they are little, they can be part of a solution, too.

Another bee in my bonnet--possibly in no one else's, but who knows--is thinking about food. I agree with EandC Mom that one can't mail one's leftover Brussels sprouts to China, but I do think that one can teach one's children at least to be mindful of where their food comes from, and of how lucky we are to have enough of it. One way in which we try to encourage that mindfulness is to grow some of our own food; if this idea appeals to you, maybe you and she could grow a little vegetable garden together next year? We are lucky and have a lot of space; we always plant a few extra rows so that some of our effort in the garden goes toward growing food that we can give away.

One last thought, and I will get off my soapbox: we try very hard to make choices about purchases--toys and clothing, for instance, and ethical meat--that take into account the human and environmental costs of their production. We have explained these choices to the kids in terms appropriate to their age and level of understanding; I hope that it won't seem too political to say that we want them (when they are older) to understand that there are some senses in which the abundance we enjoy in the West has come at the expense of others, and to think about ways in which we can stop perpetuating that situation.

I do think there are things you can do to change the world without having to feel guilty about where you're sending her to school. In our family, at least, helping the kids find those things certainly constitutes part of their education.

That's all from out here in hippieville for now--hope that helps a little bit--

peace
minnie

Well, I believe in cleaning up my own messes and leaving a place better than I found it. If I had the means and opportunity to make schools better than they are--schools in my neighborhood or in the poorest slum in Asia--I'd do it. But if I don't take care of my own backyard, who will?

It has to start here. My kids are my first priority because no one else has any responsibility to them but me. They're my "backyard" to take care of.

If I may be bold here...I think guilt is nearly always a wasted emotion, especially guilt over the circumstances of one's birth. It's no better than feeling superior about the circumstances of one's birth. You had nothing to do with it, so let it go.

If you feel guilty over your *actions*, then fix what you're doing wrong. There, guilt is the impetus for positive change. But if you're feeling guilty over something you can't change, like how fortunate you are, then I say (kindly, but firmly ) either get over it or use that feeling to spur you to do something to improve life for others.

But I feel very strongly that guilt without action is a waste of time and emotional energy. It's selfish, really. You're not helping anyone. You're just paralyzing yourself as you contemplate your own navel.

(BTW, that's you in the generic sense, not "you" as an attack, MON. )

And really, what's the use in that?

I think you don't want to go into negotiations with the school carrying a chip on your shoulder. I think that's good advice. But I also think that you *have* to feel that your child is entitled to a real education. Otherwise, what's the point?

You're a nice person, MON. I'm glad to know you. I'm glad you're so caring and kind.

Now get over it. <tongue planted firmly in cheek>

This forum is helping sooooooo many kids in so many ways.
Everyone writing anything that reaches out and makes a mom or dad or a child feel even a tiny bit better about options, the future, the next five minutes, is really important.

We (humankind) need your kids and my kids to be their very very best. To reach their potential as artists, scientists, mathematicians, teachers, engineers, astronauts, moms and dads.

LOVE the ideas here! Great idea about being mindful of where your food comes from and maybe growing your own, and Dottie is completely right about the budget issues. We do all have to work hard to find cost effective solutions for all of our educational issues. I love the idea of keeping "lean"! LOL!!!!!

How about buying local food when possible, and eating less 'out of season' fruits and vegtables?

I think there's a world of difference between working to improve things (even if it's just a tiny local improvement) and feeling entitled.

The first is almost always a net "good", even if only for very few people... but of course should be approached with an eye toward not taking away from anyone else in the process, and with possibly expanding the list of beneficiaries. But as others have said, it wouldn't do anyone else any good to forego that benefit, even for that one child.

Feeling entitled, or taking whatever you can grab, is another matter altogether. Even though we're homeschooling, DS's education isn't absolutely a perfect fit all the time. Not because I don't care, but because there are always tradeoffs... and I don't think he needs to expect that everyone accomodates him, or even that his mom always accomodates him. Sometimes (especially in a group situation), the lesson needs to take other factors into account and he needs to suck it up. Sometimes the lesson is, "You're on a team and you need to work with everyone, even if you really find them difficult." And sometimes we let a little efficiency go in our own lessons because we can share them with others. None of that is really affecting the overall quality of his education -- he might not enjoy every single minute of every single day, but he's not miserable, or stagnating, or losing his spark.

I think a lot of it can come down to distinguishing needs from wants... A kid needs to be educated (not miserable, not stagnating) but doesn't need to have every little thing suited to him alone just because he wants it. And I suspect that a kid whose needs are being met can gain the perspective that wants can be sacrificed for the greater good... but that a kid who is constantly asked to sacrifice his needs is going to be resentful and miss that lesson... and not have the emotional energy to deal with rare occasions of needing more than he gets.

Bringing it back to the food analogy, every child needs to be fed (and starving your own doesn't help anyone else), but if what we have is a pb&j and you really wanted chicken nuggets, well that's just too bad. A child needs to be fed healthy meals, but he doesn't need to love every single one of them.

Perhaps volunteering at the school, as has been suggested here, would help w/ any guilt one may be feeling over asking for accommodations for DC. Freeing up the teacher's time can be a big help. Also, the year I taught science in DS's 2nd grade class on a semi-regular basis, I was kept privy to the goings on by the teacher - like when the testing would occur etc when none of the other parents were notified. But this year, w/ DD22mths, I'm not able to do that so I really feel disconnected. Also, the school really discourages siblings on campus at all (teacher has made an exception for the Christmas party as she stated all family members are invited) so for those w/ younger siblings, it can be difficult to volunteer at the school. HOwever, the year I was on bedrest and couldn't be at the school, I volunteered to help the Art teacher. She would send home projects for me to do, and I would send it back with him. For ex: I made the invitations for the Art night (I put them together ie gluing and cutting).

My friend spent time helping the teacher by working individually w/ kids (3rd grade) on poems they were writing for about 2hrs. The teacher was so appreciative, telling her there was no way she'd be able to get it all done, that she hugged my friend as she was leaving!

My take on this is a bit different:

As a gifted child myself, I found that I was less prepared for University than most children around me. Why? Because I didn't have to work at anything, never learned study skills, and still succeeded. Most other children my age knew how to do the vital self-learning things that help you succeed in hard environments.

In this manner, I did not learn some of the most fundamental skills that the schools are supposed to teach.

I see my gifted child and I want him to learn the important fundamentals that school teaches other children. In order for him to learn that, he has to be in a place where he struggles just enough that he can make it if he works at it. In doing so, he gets an equal opportunity to learn some important life skills that many kids in his grade have already begun to learn.

I've also put him into an environmental charter school to ensure he learns about the planet around him and how to help save it.:) I guess that allays my guilt at pushing for his education.

Lya

I could quote this whole post because I think it's all right on the mark. But I really like the "needs vs. wants" take here. I think that's so key! Thanks for posting that, Erica.

MON-
We have nearly identical school choices here and we have opted for B. The private school Ds attends is designed perfectly for MG kids... too bad he's above their typical range. They expect him to slow a bit to wait for others. I hope that teacher by teacher, we can make changes. Considering the huge expense of the school, they do an amazing job of teaching social justice and the world around us. Their school has an adopted school in Rwanda and they each have penpals. Last year the parents paid for the school principal in Rwanda to come here for 3 weeks and for 10 of our high school kids to go there and teach and tutor. It is a beautiful and enriching experience that doesn't come too many other places.

As to your original question- I truly believe that every time I advocate for my son, I am advocating for EVERY child. Each child deserves a teacher who sees them for who they are and believes in their inner potential, whatever that potential is. I'm not asking for the best for my son at the risk of denying others. I'm asking for the best for everyone, a higher expectation of quality education that meets each child's individual needs. I just happen to know the proper words and terms to get a meeting.

As for volunteering, I spend a lot of time at our local food bank tutoring high school girls who have children. I give them a bit of hope and a lot of english language every week. They're not my son but they deserve the opportunity to try to make it too.

I came back from volunteering in my DD's 1st grade class and have mixed feelings as usual. There are children struggling with reading and I want to bring them home for intensive tutoring. CA estimates the number of prisons that need to be built based on children who can't read. So I feel responsible to do something more for the children who are struggling.

At the same time I see children getting the opportunity to stretch and grow at school that gifted children don't seem to get. Luckily I'm able to provide opportunities for my DD to stretch and grow outside of school but what about the children of gifted parents who don't have the extra time or money? I feel responsible to do more for the children who are under challenged.

The two responsibilities are intertwined but so often it's presented as a choice between one group or the other. Hopefully we'll find creative solutions that allow us to meet both responsibilities instead of having to choose. It's encouraging to know so many bright minds are thinking about this.

CAMom What are the proper words and terms to get a meeting?

Inky-
In my case it helped to drop ADHD into the conversation a lot without putting any other clarifications. "I believe we should get together to discuss his ADHD like behavior. I understand that having a child with ADHD can be difficult in your class." Notice I didn't say MY child had ADHD :-) I've had good luck getting meetings with things like "help make sure that you have the support you need to do your job- teaching in this day and age is very complex!" Now... let's be fair- I've had a lot of meetings with very little results. But at least I got some meetings!

In public school you can also throw around things like "free and appropriate education" because although the FAPE standard doesn't apply to gifted education in general, those setting the calendar usually don't know that! I also scored a meeting with the head of our public district by saying "I know that your test scores are very important to you and I believe our goals are the same in that aspect." Bing- the magic word of raising your test scores!

There are many ways to look at this. One way is that whether this is about equal opportunity or equal outcome. If we strive for equal outcome (which I think will be very bad for the society), it will be a different story. But if we believe in equal opportunities, then every kid needs to be challenged to fully develop their potentials. In this sense you are not asking for the moon for your DD, you are asking for academic challenge, which many kids do get in our public school system. It doesn't mean that your DD is the only one you care, but you are likely to be the one who she can rely on the most.