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I'm not sure where to post this...
I need assistance/tricks/techniques on teaching DS7 the times tables. DS will not sit and memorize them. That would be ideal. He refuses, even with incentives (bribes). We tried Timez Attacks which he played for a bit but didn't seem to really be learning too much (I'm sure it worked for others). We have a wall chart taped to our pantry door which lists 1x1 through 12x12 but he has no interest. Also tried the same info on a placemat. Help! BTW - DS does like math just can't be bothered to memorize these tables. When quizzed, would rather take 90 sec to come up with the answer rather than just "know" it cold... Help!

I have a CD from the library called Multiplication Songs by the Learning Beat Series. I play it in the car and the multiplication tables are repeated with delayed answers for practice. My daughter hates drill but this ear-worm approach seems to work.

Hi,

I won't go from memorizing 1 times table and up. I find by learning in this order, my kids can remember better.

1) Know that Any Number x 0 = 0
2) Any number x 1 = the number itself
3) Learn all the doubles. Eg. 1x1, 2x2, 3x3 ..... 10x10 , 11 x11, 12x12
4) Any number x 10 = the number itself with a 0 behind.
5) Start to learn multiplication of numbers between 1-5. Eg: 2x4, 5x3. Practise by using triangular flash cards, or during dinner (or anytime!) for fun.
6) Once well versed of the above, expand to 6-10 or 12.

There are some tricks for some. For the 9 times table, u can use your ten fingers!
For 7x8=56, just remember 5,6,7,8.
For 3x4=12, it is 1,2,3,4.

I find that my kids learn better compared to the rote method of plain memorizing. Of course, we have to "know" the answers (accuracy and speed) eventually but the above really helps! I remembered my dd was always stucked at 7 x 4. I gave her impromptus question daily till she gets it! :lol: DS seems to always get stucked at 6x8. I don't know why??!!

I did plain old flash cards with DS last year. About 5min a day for 2 weeks, and he had them all down. I paid him a penny per card he got right each day, too. He still tries to get me to do flash cards with him because of that. I'll hang on to my money, thanks. LOL!

Have you tried dice games? We roll 4 dice (so that we can get up to 12x12) and multiply the sum of 2 of them times the sum of the other two. The goal is to fill in a blank chart with all the answers before mom does.

You might also look for a game called "1-2-3-Oy!" We got it for $5.95 at a local educational game fair, though I think much of it you could do with regular cards if you wanted to. There are many ways to play, but there's one solitaire game that we're using to work on times tables with our DS7: lay out 4 or 6 (or more) cards and one goal card. There's even a set of wild cards that you decide on a value for ahead of time--DS7 chose 100!--that can make the game more or less challenging. Use multiplication and division to reach the goal card using as many of the cards in your hand as possible. You can add and subtract products as well, but you must use some multiplication or division for it to count. Then clear away the cards you used and your goal card and deal new ones to start again. (You could probably play this with more than one person, too.)

Usborne Books (and other companies, I'm sure!) also have self-checking cards that you wrap with string to select answers to math problems. The pattern the string makes tells you if you're right. I'm not explaining it very well, but the Usborne name for it is "Learning Wrap-Ups." My kids seem to like these. The 4yo is actually learning *his* times tables with it! Some days I think he's going to beat the 7yo in mastering them!

Anyway...

Studying patterns in the chart is also good for visual kids. Give my son a chart of numbers, and he can stare at it all day. Multiplication got a lot easier for him when we looked for patterns. It's like he soaked up the whole chart in one day. His interest level rose, too. He's a lot more interested in it now that he sees there are cool patterns involved.

Finally, a lot of GT kids who get the concept of multiplication aren't interested in doing the memorization work to know the facts cold. It's very common. Until they see a *reason* to put in the time and effort, they just won't learn them. Algebra problems can help. And repeated exposure in fun ways seems to work wonders. Games that require speedy recall work once they know some/most of the facts pretty well. (Don't use these too early, though, or they'll get frustrated that they can never win.)

If you find any good ideas, please share. I'm always looking for new ways to work with my DS7 on fact recall.

BTW, I second the "may not be ready" thing.

Just because they know the concept doesn't mean they're ripe for memorization. At 6, my DS had totally mastered the concept, but CLEARLY wasn't ready to memorize. Nothing stuck, and he wasn't at all interested.

So we shifted gears and did geometry for a while, since that was perfect for his visual style, hunger for concepts, and lack of interest in computation. It was completely out of the normal math path, but it worked for him. Now, a year later, he's much more interested in computation and is gradually learning his facts. (He still hates flash cards--visual kids don't usually have any great love for those...)

That's the main reason I resist "drill and kill" for my 7yo. If he were 9 and still hadn't learned them, I'd be pushing a lot harder. As it is, I think making it appealing so that I can keep throwing it at him regularly seems to be a better approach. Not that I think life has to be a party, but that he's doing it early, so there's no need to make him miserable along the way, you know? You catch more flies with honey and all that...

You can also try "Multiplication War" or a Schoolhouse Rock video(my personal favorite). The War card game is a set of card with equations on them, each player puts down a card and the player with the higher number keeps the card, there is a war when the cards are of equal value.

Thank you for all the wonderful suggestions!!! DS7's teacher recommended we teach him the times tables since he is flying through math and she wants to keep him challenged. She said the next thing for him would be to learn the times tables so he can continue on his math track. I haven't tried most of the tricks listed above but I will. DS7 is highly visual-spatial and loves to draw so tricks along those lines just might work. Inky - thanks for the songs trick. It would be good to keep it on in the car. Dottie - the drawing idea might work as might a partial chart. I'll also check out the link. S-T, thanks for the order of how to learn the facts. RJH - yes, we did use $ for an incentive. I'll try flashcards that we can keep in the car. Kriston - didn't think of the dice game but that is great! I could even use it at a restaurant with the kids or anywhere we have to wait. It could be modified for DD5 so she can be included. I think the patterns tricks might do it. CFK - it is holding him back. On the one hand, I get complaints that math is getting repetitious for him and on the other, he's not willing to stretch. He just might be ready to learn.
You all are great!!! Thanks for the help and suggestions.

Do consider asking the teacher to consider geometry (or some such thing) over "drill and kill." If he's enjoying the multiplication work, great! But if not, please do consider another direction.

There *are* ways to move forward in math without forcing the times table issue too early. Remember that memory and conceptual grasp are two different things for a kid. Math facts do not have to be a sticking point for conceptually GT kids if the teacher is willing to go a little further afield.

JMHO, having been in these shoes last year. Making math all about memorization is, sadly, a good way to make a mathy kid hate math. He's ahead, so why do that to him?

I think it's fabulous that your son enjoys "playing" with multiplication. I felt I went too quickly from being introduced to the concept to memorizing without enough opportunity to play around with multiplication.

You could help your son with shortcuts to figuring out the answer. For example to figure out 8x7 you could show him it's the same as (8x5) + (8x2). It seems easier to multiply by 5's and 2's and then add rather than adding 7 eight times.

All right, have you gals been at my dinner table recently? DS was complaining about math - the repetition (he is completing 3 column add/sub) and said that he "hates math." Scary words from one that young. DT (dear teacher) recommended the times tables at conference in October (unrelated to the current "hates math" due to the many 3 column worksheets). I will suggest the geometry approach. Our school uses EM (Everyday Math) and it spirals up and down and can seem very repetitious. I don't want to force it. I do think the patterns approach might work... It's worth a try without a hard sell as is the music in the car. DT is stickler this year - any math errors have to be rewritten - the whole problem not just erasing and correcting. Same for vocab/spelling. I will ask her about alternatives to "drill and kill." Perhaps she can give him work from ancillary material rather than the current wkbk. Inky - I like breaking it up into parts - nice trick...Thx!

Just avoid using the term "drill and kill" with her. She's not likely to respond well to that characterization of her teaching.

(even if it's accurate...)

It sounds like I have been at your dinner table. My daughter started saying she hated math and the end of kindergarten last year. I worked with her over the summer and took a different approach from the procedure drills that the school seemed to emphasize (i.e Math Minutes). Instead we worked on critical thinking and problem solving. She went from "I hate Math" to "more Math!"
This year in first grade she has Everyday Math. The approach is fine but the level isn't right for her. They've started math groups with another teacher but the first homework came home and "drill and kill" is a good description. It was 63 problems of 2 digit addition with regrouping. We managed to break it into smaller chunks to get through it but I fear the "I hate math" attitude will come back with a vengeance.

Yes, I don't think I will win friends and influence people using the term "drill & kill." LOL!

Inky - I dislike EM (Everyday Math) - there was a thread on this Board about it at one point and most folks dislike it. EPGY was favored as were several others. Alas, I don't HS. FWIW: Supposedly, EM is the "best" of the worst with the general consensus that there aren't many good math programs in this country.

I do like your idea of other ways to challenge DS with math (along with the suggestions of several others). I do fear EM isn't meeting his needs. Kids today are bright enough to catch the repetitious spiralling, even if some of it is from previous years! Ugh! Good luck to you as well.

I don't think DS had a 63 problem worksheet (I am not sure where that figure came from but if I used it, it was inaccurate) but he did bring home 5 pages from his workbook of triple digit add/sub. I think it was a few too many sheets at once for him. Dottie, what grades did your kids go through EM? I think we start to veer away from it around 4th gr with lots of supplemental items as determined by the teacher (some are great at this). We were also told that this year, several kids, including DS will begin pre-algebra etc. I am so reassured to hear that your kids have gone through this program with success! Did you have to supplement it with any other items? At this point, we don't do anything extra with DS. He finds subjects he enjoys and "researches" them... That is why trying to teach him multiplication is so challenging. We don't really "work" with him at all. Thanks for your insight and to all who have posted.

Thanks Dottie! DS has been in it since KG (they start on 1st gr EM in KG) so he is probably in 3rd gr EM now (I guess; he is in 2nd gr). DD also started KG this year so she has EM for 1st. Our school is K-8 so I guess some of the kids start to outgrow EM by 4th with some outgrowing it even earlier. I don't know what else we use after that. Again, thanks for sharing your experience. One last question: did DD, DD and DS have to memorize their multiplication at some point to progress through EM?

Whoa; what's not to love about that?

(I know that is not the EM norm, per Dottie, but it did almost make me shoot coffee out my nose!)

This is a great thread! Great tips
I am looking online now for the music!

Found some tricks here... http://math.about.com/bltricks.htm

DS8 loves the 11 times rule. I think he learnt it in one of the Murderous Math books.

One CD which my friend used was "Learning to Tell Time & Multiplication". She said it was useful for her kid. I am not sure about it as I have never heard/used it.

Edited to add CD info.

http://hunkinsexperiments.com/pages/multiplication.htm

Check this link for a multiplication trick. I don't think it'll make your ds fast at fact recall, but it's pretty neat.

DS7 loves the 2-digit 11s trick, too.

He's good with his 9s, too, though the trick I taught him took longer to sink in than the 11s. Here's what I use:

For any number times 9, look at the non-9. Subtract 1 and you have the 10s place (so for 9x3 => use 3-1=2). Then use that 2 to figure that 2+?=9. That's 7, so 7 goes in the 1s place for an answer of 27.

Simple and quick, and no fingers!

Wow! DS7 will love this, and it's totally new to me! Thanks!

Sorry for the confusion. The 63 problems were not from EM. All the 1st graders are doing EM at the same pace and level with their regular teachers. They are also doing math classes grouped by ability with different teachers. The 63 problem homework was from the teacher for the ability group.

It's very frustrating. I've been advocating for an appropriate challenge since August and when we finally get work that's closer to the right level for DD, it's presented in the drill and kill way that she (and I) hate. I'd considered just having DD do the most difficult 20 of the 63 to show she's capable. I didn't because it was easier to just have DD do it than start another round of advocating with a new teacher.


Thanks, I needed that. Next time I plan to talk to the new teacher about how these kinds of assignments lead to "I hate math!"(without using the term drill and kill of course).

This is cool! I will show DS8 when he's back from school. Hope he doesn't say "I already knew that!".

I gave ds a trick for 6's, maybe it's mentioned already in the thread; 6x7 is the same as 5x7 + 7, fives are so easy and then the adding is no biggy. (6 * x = 5*x +x )
I was pleased to see he realized on his own he could apply this to the 9's using the 10's: 9x7 is the same as 10*7 -7...

He definitely enjoys learning more of the tricks and patterns - rote memorization is like complete torture for the whole family!

(oh, and since christmas is fast approaching... we like to sing '6 times 3, oh 6 times 3, you always equal 18...this is to the tune of O'Christmas Tree. )

This is very tricky. I love the idea of doing as Kriston did and going broad for Math, but I will be very amazed and do a little happy dance if you can get your school teacher to 'get' this. I would suggest instead a huge parental investment in getting both kids over the 'Memorization' hurdle. It was a problem at our house,and for me as a kid as well, and in the end, what worked was that DH used the morning school drives to verbally 'drill and kill.'

I think that the idea of skip counting at obscenely early ages is the only way around this one. I would do all the tricks noted with DS, and spend a lot of time skip counting with DD. Maybe set a goal for yourself that for a week, you work skip counting into every activity with DD:
"Let's see how long it take to walk to the mail box, skip counting by 5's." (10s or 3s are also good)
"Let's see how long it takes to put your shoes on, skip-counting by 2's"
"Let's mix the cookie batter skip counting by 3's."

Let DS overhear. Act suprised that skip counting is related to Multiplication if you think you can get away with it - LOL!

Afterall, we are talking about a memorization skill here, not a math skill. It may help to explain to DS that this isn't about Math, it's about Memorization, another important skill, and occasionally show him cool Math stuff.

I never got around to ordering this game - but it looked so cool!
http://www.mythmaticalbattles.com/

I will admit that I had forgotten my 6x6 up to th 8's. I relearned when DS was relearning, with a cool game called Sequence. DS just watched me play. Did it help him? I doubt it. Sadly, I've re-forgotten those tough ones, but I'm hoping the Russian Finger game will help, and am going to try again.

I did explain to DS that some topics are such that you learn them, use them or forget them, but that when you go to relearn them, the 'grooves are already there' so it's faster and easier to relearn, and then you forget again, unless you use it, and then you learn again, even faster.

((shrug))

Also - some people can do mental math on a little blackboard in their heads. Some can't. Some do better on paper, some verbal/hearing. Figure out which is easiest for DS as you spend time hothousing him. This is one of those areas where hothousing is the way to go. ((Doesn't mean you can give him a calculator and more interesting Math seperatly, just that the price of waiting on this one may be too high.))

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I agree that you will probably have a hard time persuading the teacher to go a different route, but I really do think that's the gold standard here.

Grin, it may be "only" memorization, but that is a skill like any other, and not all GT kids have an easier time memorizing random facts than other kids their age. Especially Visual-Spatial kids. At 6/7, memorization is not something they do easily! I'm amazed at how much easier it is for my son this year than it was last year, just 6 months later! Nothing else changed; he's just more ready for it.

I guess I just hate to have math-y kids hate math to suit someone else's schedule. You know? It seems backwards!

I realize I'm suggesting a lot though, and the teacher may well not go for it, but I do think it's worth a try. It sounds like she wants to help the child, and that's usually the best time to ask for something off the beaten path. If the teacher had been resisting, then I wouldn't have suggested it.

P.S. I got the Mythmagical Battles game, but it's one of those that's best for review rather than learning, IMHO. DS7 was pretty frustrated with it.

I came across this today and thought it was neat. It's called a multiplication clock.

http://robinsunne.com/robinsunnes_multiplication_clock

We ran across these laminated place mats a couple of years ago - started off with dinosaurs and the solar system, we now have:

multiplication tables up to 12 x 12
the periodic table
Flags of all the nations
The Night Sky and the constellations and
Cursive handwriting.

The boys fight over who gets the periodic table (!) but it has certainly sparked an interest in learning multiplication - down to having "contests" with friends who come over and do anything on our kitchen table.

http://www.painlesslearning.com/

they're actually quite fun! (and I think DS9 has the periodic table memorized)

Just a quick fun item I found at the bookstore: http://www.thinkfun.com/PRODUCT.ASP...amp;Category=5EDFOCUS&ProductId=1510

It includes 12 sided die so we are going to try the fun route... I'll let you know how it goes... I'm going to try it over the holidays...

DD6 had fun playing Timez Attack with DH. She got real excited about shouting out the answers. Good way to practice multiplication drills.

http://multiplication.com/interactive_games.htm