Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments How did you choose your child's school?

I live in a city of almost one million people, and we have no school for gifted students. I don't know if I would choose that option for my daughter, but it sure would be nice to have the option!

For those of you that do not homeschool, how did you choose your child's school?

What do you think of:

Montessori?
Non-graded school (i.e. no letter grades)?
All-girls education?
Public School?
Private school with small classes?
French immersion?
Sign language school?
...

What kind of schools did you consider?

Well, we went with our local neighborhood public school. It's a 5 minute walk and having DS there has really connected us to our neighbors and community. That was our first choice and we wanted to give it a fair chance, even though they have minimal gifted programs. If that had failed, we would have probably looked elsewhere, but we were lucky and have never needed to.

We can't afford the private schools around here. Our kids attend the local public school. There is no choice of schools since our district is overcrowded.

We chose French immersion initially. Immersion programs can be excellent choices for gifted kids, especially if they don't speak the language to begin with (it helps if one parent can at least get by in the language).

The French schools are good choices because they follow the national curriculum of France. It's all very organized, and the kids really learn how to read, write, and think in the language. The ability of these schools to achieve this in a short period is just outstanding.

The French part was great for our DS8 for about ~3 years, though there were always problems with the English side. After that, the only subject that was any kind challenge was French grammar. We kept him there for 4 years and he is now able to attend after-school grade-level classes for native speakers (the standards are slightly higher, given that almost everyone speaks French as a native language).

Our DS6 didn't thrive in the French school and given the situation of both kids, we moved to a school that's more suited to gifted kids. It's a very small private school.

The public schools would have been a disaster. I called a few local ones last year when we had decided to pull out of the French one, and they were all very, very down on grade skips or even subject acceleration. We're very fortunate that we can send our kids to a private school, and are very, very aware that the precarious economy might mean it isn't an option next year.

Hope this helps. What are you considering?

Val

You know, one, I'm not sure how helpful this will be to you in the decision-making process. I say that because any given school can work for *some* GT child somewhere, depending upon personality and the specifics of teacher and child. But what works spectacularly for one child is going to be intellectual and social death for another.

Not to mention the fact that school philosophies are not always translated into practice consistently from building to building, so even if we all agreed that X philosophy is ideal, it might not play out that way in the actual school your child would attend.

I suspect you'd have better luck if you take a close look at the schools in your area instead of looking for generalizations here. This forum is great for giving you ideas about questions to ask and things to look for as you go. But since there's no specifically wrong school for GT kids, nor any "best" school for them, any info you get here is more conversation than practical help, I'm afraid.

I don't mean to sound negative, and I always love to hear about what others are doing for their kids. But I don't think it will/should really have much affect on your specific school decisions.

I am doing the school search/application now. Being in NYC, there are gifted options. You do have to do the test thing to qualify, but there are differences in the options. We are not looking at private options, except a Jesuit school because the privates have a DOB cut-off of 9/1 while public is 12/31.

I tour the schools, I ask questions. What I like most of the gifted schools is that your child will be with other kids that stimulate thought. And she will find friends there. This past summer at the beach, I noticed a change in DD when she played with another child, 6 months older and very smart. Before she didn't care for her, just a personality mismatch, but this summer, she sort of overlooked the personality in order to have the interactive play at her level. It was a slow, push/pull process over the summer, but by mid-summer it was noticeable how she wanted to play with the other girl and how she wanted to play. Which made me think about my playmates. My closest buddy throughout my childhood, despite very different personalities, did physics and a doctorate in nuclear engineering. She got offered classified jobs before she was 2 years into her PhD.

In my opinion, having the peer group is important.

Ren

Don't forget speaking skills.

The French intellectuals and business leaders I have met have very impressive extemporaneous speaking and verbal reasoning skills.

The best schools I went to tested me and then put me in with my skill-peers. I suppose you could read some of the horror stories on here and then know what the "No WAY" list will look like.

Yes, that's true. Both my kids have excellent French accents, and it's also true that the curriculum goes much deeper than the US one, in general. They read lots of books (no short passages followed by multiple choice questions in France), write more essays, and give more presentations. In short, the French system does a good job of teaching people how to form ideas and draw conclusions.

My husband has made the same observations (he worked with a lot of French people for a while). France seems to be quite open to grade skips compared to the US, too.

We discovered that the after-school program goes a long way toward providing these skills at a much lower cost. When combined with an ability-grouped school, the choice was easy.

Val

Where we are there are essentially Private (religious) schools and public schools.

We chose the Catholic School because we were members of the church and it appeared that the school was able to produce excellent scores on testing and were warm and friendly.

Plenty had been said about the local public schools that scared us away from even considering them.

We regret that we did not have the insight to know what to ask. Clearly, we "judged the book by it's cover.". What we discovered was that they offered no differentiation, no ability to assess or address gifted or LD children and no desire to do so. Instead, they made it a nightmare for my family.

My dds are in a public school now. It is not fancy or high on the list of wonderful schools, but they are so pleased to have my dds that when we ask, they respond (not always timely, but it is taken seriously and accomadations are made within the mandated structure). At this point, we are most frustrated with the time line.

So, is the situation perfect? no. Better than the Catholic School? hands down.

Homeschool is not an option, but I do supplement at home.

pardon the spelling errors!

Thanks Mamabear for telling this story. I appreciate the message of not trusting the rumor mill to make school decisions for your child. I think in many places there is a tendency among parents to bash the public schools and emphasize the negative; it fills a social need of something common that parents can talk about while waiting at swimming lessons or whatever. I am pretty sure it is not meant to be malicious, just sharing information. It can go the other way as well; you hear how great a school is, but maybe it won't be great for your family.

We heard many stories about how bad our public schools were too, especially middle school. Most of my friends never even attempted to put their kids in the public schools based on the rumors. Both DH and I had gone to "bad" public schools and really liked them, so we were willing to take the risk and it has been really great for us. Our friends are often surprised by how well the schools have done by our DS. One of our friends who swore they would never put their kids in PS are now realizing that the private school they had their kid in is actually a bad fit and are reconsidering public school. Of course Public schools can be a really bad fit as well. My point is to not trust the rumor mill, but see for yourself.

I hope that what all this is doing for the OP and others is showing the various processes that we used to find school fits for our kids. I think the final outcome of where we settled is less important than the processes that we have used.

If I had to do it over, I would have asked more questions!

Now, we are in the midst of a 2e situation for babybear. The wheels are not turning as fast as I want, but they are turning!!

At the Cahtolic school, there were no wheels to turn. It was a situation where they didn't like my children, had no desire to help them and made it impossible for them to stay (in a nut shell).

My older dd had a couple of issues this year. I asked for advice here and then spoke with the teacher and essentially we got what dd needed and that was that.

With my younger dd, her situation is not that simple so we need testing and have to go through channels to get there. BUT that being said, she has a very understanding, cooperative, interested teacher who genuinely enjoys DD.

Personally, I think this particular public school enjoys active, interested parents.

This is in no way a blanket statement about all public or private schools, just our experience.

You know, though we had a bad experience in the schools and we chose to homeschool, I always make it a point not to badmouth our public schools locally. Not only do I think that would unnecessarily alienate me and my kids from people who are using the public schools, but I also think that it might turn people away from what might be a good school for their kids.

Different kids are different. We need different options so that all needs have a shot at being served.

There's much to be said for finding a school that a) wants your kids there, and b) takes you and your concerns seriously, Mamabear. I think that's about half the battle. (With flexibility and recognzing different learning needs making up most of the other half!)

Kriston, I think much of the bad-mouthing we hear about the schools (public/private/charter/homeschool/whatever) around here actually comes from people who have not sent their kids to these schools. The ones who tried a school with an open mind (like you)and switched are much more likely to chalk it up to "bad fit" than to "bad school."

People with closed minds have open mouths, I guess...

What a timely topic given where we're at currently.

And hello after rather a long absence - DH is having issues confronting his lack of real expertise in computer maintenance. And sometimes I need some time in my cave (or were we women supposed to have a well?).

DS6's public school has never full-grade accelerated a student before and the vibes we've had about it have not been particularly positive - the teacher we've asked for next year has assured me that she currently has some "very very" gifted children in her class who go up to the next grade for maths lessons, and I don't think she sees the need for anything more controversial. It's a small school with only 1 1/2 classes in his year, and I don't see any other kids in his year like him. But while I don't think the school quite understands what we're getting at, they have moved him up to Grade 1 three mornings a week and started giving him take-home readers (which seemed to effectively end the anger/unhappiness issues we'd been having). They've agreed to a multi-age 1/2 class for next year, and the receiving teacher has apparently decided to sign up for gifted ed training. That last really impressed me.

But this week I also had a tour of a reasonably nearby public school with GT specialisation, which doesn't feel particularly constrained by the calendar year batch and box system. Even with just a whirlwind tour the difference in the children and what they were learning was striking. They have a waiting list, but would put us at the top. On the other hand, what with the nature of the school and the area it's in, there's apparently a pretty competitive, results-focused culture among many parents. I'd heard this beforehand and one of the teachers said it does tend to be the case. I have no argument against parents who take that approach, but it's not my approach. And then, what with being of the left-greeny persuasion, I can't shake off a feeling of wrongness about the discrepancy between the facilities at the GT richer-area school and our current working class/migrant school. Would enrolling my children there make me a self-serving hypocrite? Or would not doing it be indulging my values at the expense of my children's best interests?

DH thinks I'm crazy. But then he's a "T" and I'm an "F", perhaps that's a critical difference. And I've been so constantly worried about all this for most of the year that I'm pretty sure I'm not functioning at my best re rational evaluation. I flip between anxiety, grief, denial and repetitively singing mournful Patsy Cline songs (relevance to education?). But either choice would see us lose something valuable - either a community school with a lot of heart and an apparent willingness to listen, or expertise and like minds.

My very best advice would be to re-read Hoagies' "Least-Worst Option" article: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/least-worst.htm .

Then just do the best you can to make a good choice, and remember that your choice of school isn't a lifetime commitment. If you don't like what you choose, you can always try something else later. Very few choices are irrevocable.

Best wishes!

Then I guess you have to include me in the closed mind group. I'm not shy about saying that US public schools are failing our children --- by that, I mean ALL children, not just the 2% at the top of the IQ tests.

By any objective standard, our schools aren't doing their jobs. American students do poorly on international exams, are barely numerate, and have mediocre reading skills. Writing skills are mediocre at best. Watered-down multiple choice tests written by states are used to "prove" that schools are improving, yet there are no improvements on national or international tests. I don't have to send my kids to every public school in the country to know this stuff.

If the schools were getting better, most of the kids would do well on the tests with minimal preparation. They prepare like mad and still do poorly.

The California exit exam is written at a 7th-8th grade level overall, yet many students can't pass it on the first attempt in 10th grade ( check here ). Other state exams aren't much better. Many (not all!) teachers haven't mastered the subject matter they're supposed to be teaching. And meanwhile, some of our school boards are pushing creationism in science class. Etc. etc!

Sorry, and I'm not trying to be rude, but the problem isn't about fit. It's about poor schools, watered-down lockstep curricula, and anti-intellectualism. A child can be happy at school while still not learning much.

Like I said, I'm not trying to be rude. I'm blunt because nothing will change until people start accepting these facts and start looking for meaningful solutions.

Val

That's what most people want out of just about everything in their lives.

Although, I agree that the public schools have a number of problems, not everyone would agree with the assumption that because kids aren't learning as well as they should be, that the schools are necessarily the ones who are most at fault.

I think a strong argument explaining the data you share can come back to issues with the larger society than with the schools per se.

Here is one example of someone who believes that in-home parenting may be a bigger influence on educational outcome than the school itself. http://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/parenting-and-educational-achievement.pdf



I have not done much research into this myself and I haven't checked their data. But I can say taht what I observe at DS's public school is that the teachers are excellent and class sizes reasonable. There is an excess of mandated testing and some odd curruculum choices made by the district. But in the end the real problem is that kids who don't have a home to go to at the end of the day, just aren't learning at the same rate as the ones who do. I find it hard to blame the teachers for that.

Yes, I agree. I have MAJOR problems with the education system, but badmouthing my local school isn't going to fix those problems. There's a difference there.

I do think that fit can be a problem. Sometimes the school that gets the bad rap in the rumor mill does a great job with HG+ kids. Sometimes the school that's supposed to have such high standards and is so well mentioned in the rumor mill is rigid and takes the "all our kids are GT" stance, so that an HG+ child is not remotely accomodated.

None of that changes the fact that the education system in general is not working as it should. But some schools manage to serve their students anyway. Others--even some private schools, even some GT schools!--don't serve kids well at all.

I, too, am not quiet about the education system needing a MAJOR overhaul. But that's not the closed-mindedness that I was referring to. I think that's a valid analysis based on the available data.

No, I meant what Dottie mentioned earlier: people who talk badly (and often!) about a particular school without really knowing anything about it.

Does that clarify, Val?

Yep. Thanks.

I want to write more but I have to finish writing a paper. Perhaps ce soir.

Val

Oh, sorry! Didn't mean to slight you there, acs!

They say the memory is the first thing to go...or is that the knees? I forget...

I'm not shy about saying that US public schools are failing our children --- by that, I mean ALL children, not just the 2% at the top of the IQ tests.(/quote]

I agree that there are issues in public schools, what I take issue with is the idea that private schools are the Mecca of education.

I realize that I should be a proponent for all childrden GT or not in US schools but my reality is that I am full and totally commited to my children. If my children can get what they need educationally and their scores reflect their ability then they are in a good place. It has very little to do with how the school is doing as a whole, but how the parent, child and school work together for the benefit of the child.
JMHO

Not to speak for her, but I don't think Val thinks private schools are a Mecca. I KNOW I don't!

I generally agree with your post, Mamabear. But I also think that the education system could be doing more for our kids. Small victories will tend to remain pretty small, pretty local, if we don't start thinking bigger.

Ever notice how we all seem to be fighting the same fights over and over all around the country? Well, wouldn't it be nice if systemic reforms solved some/many of those common problems in one fell swoop? Why do we all have to fight the same skirmishes? Maybe what we need is a big war to make a real change.

IMHO, I think we parents of GT kids tend to think too small. Obviously my kids are my first priority, as it must be. But I think we have to start thinking systemically instead of merely individually if we want to make any sort of lasting improvements in the education that GT kids in the U.S. receive.

As I told a couple of friends here in a PM, put a fancy bow on nothing and you've still got nothing. I think most of our schools offer--at best!--fancy bows. I think we tend to get very wrapped up in worrying about the bows and acquiring the bows and arranging the bows. But underneath? Nada.

I want more from our education system.

Where's the beef?!

(My new battle cry!)

Here is an interesting site to look at if you want to compare our education system to that of other coutries. I spent way to long looking at it tonight. The truth is we seem to be lousy at some things and really good at others. http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/edu-education&all=1
My favorite measure was: student attitudes>report class disorder. Check out Italy!


I have not traveled extensively in this world, but I have had a chance to see school systems in a few other countries. While there is plenty to be fixed here, there are many things I am grateful for. I have taken a lot for granted, like running water, schools that meet a basic building codes, and simple availability, that much of world does not have. I recently visited a school in a 3rd world country that has no running water, an outhouse, and 40 kids crammed into a small room. Half the kids in the village don't even get to attend because they cannot afford the required pencils and notebooks. Education ends in 6th grade.

I know someone is going to say, but we are a first-world country, of course we are doing better than that. And that person would be absolutely right. We can do better and we should do better. There is a lot to be done and we are the people who can help make those changes. Still, I guess I'm a glass half-full kind of person and I am really glad that my noise-sensitive child isn't going to school in Italy! LOL!

Well, my kid is going to school in my dining room because the system was unwilling to give him what he needed, and I keep hearing the same sorts of problems and conversations from other people here and IRL. I'm afraid I'm pretty "glass half-empty" on this one.

Could it be worse? Of course! But should it be better? That's the real question.

I think we're aiming too low. JMHO...

Oh acs, I totally get what you are saying. A girl I work with visits Haiti every year with her family and her father runs a charitable organization that helps the kids there. They provide one meal a day at school, consisting of rice and maybe beans(?) and this is usually the only meal these kids get ALL DAY LONG! I was reading an article about how they are eating "dirt cookies" because they have no food. I also read how in Cambodia the supplier of rice to the schools (also the kids only meal in many cases) has decided to start selling the rice elsewhere as they can get more money for it. It just makes me so sad and just feel so blessed that we live in a country where I don't have to worry about where my children's next meal is coming from. Yes, we still have problems, don't get me wrong, but we have it so much better than others have it many other places in the world. I think things like this can really help put our challenges into perspective.

Count me in the "glass half full" camp too!!!!!

Are we fortunate to live in the U.S.? Of course! But "glass half-full" thinking doesn't get changes made to a system that has PLENTY of room for improvement, especially in terms of GT education. If I lived in Haiti, I'd be trying to fix the Haitian system. But I live here, and I'm concerned with trying to improve *our* not-perfect system!

I absolutely encourage those with concerns about such foreign educational tragedies (because that's what those are!) to get involved and fix them. I'll cheer you on. But this is completely irrelevant to the issue of OUR kids in OUR schools!

Sorry, but we're hitting on one of my soapbox issues. I'm trying not to soapbox, but I REALLY think low expectations are bad for GT kids! I think we need to demand more from our schools.

I keep thinking about the actions taken by the parents of kids of developmentally disabled kids in the 70s and 80s, and I thnk "Why don't WE do that!?! Why don't we get organized and push for required service in schools?"

The only answer I see is because we all feel somehow ungrateful or as if we don't have the right to want more for our kids. But if we keep focusing on what we have (and what others elsewhere don't have), we miss out on what we *could* have for our kids. This is NOT a helpful or useful approach, IMHO.

Do we disagree that the U.S.'s education system in general should/could be doing more for GT kids? Am I off base here?

No I don't think you're off base in saying that the education system could be doing more. I agree. I was merely agreeing with acs that thinking about others less fortunate could put things more into perspective. I know it does for me.

But is that a helpful perspective? I mean, if we dwell upon what's better for us than for others, we don't get motivated to push for more.

And I really do believe that GT kids should get more from the public education system. I am a fan of the concept, even a fan of the practice in some places. It's not all bad, even in the worst places, I don't think.

But overall, as a system, I think the public education system needs to do more for GT kids.

It is for me, it may not be for you. And that is ok, we're all different in how we view things.

I mean is it helpful overall, for GT education in general? I don't think the complacency that "glass half-full" thinking breeds is good for GT education.

I think I'm becoming motivated to take some national action. I'm tired of seeing the same 5 or 6 problems and school responses popping up here. I'm tired of all of us fighting the same fights over and over. I want change!

I missed the logical connection that somehow seeing the glass half full (or 3/4 full)somehow leads to complacency. I think many of the people who made meaningful changes were optimistic people. I can be grateful for what I have while working for change. It's more fun to work while happy than angry.

I agree. And I'm not angry. Maybe frustrated. But not angry.

I just think that saying "Well, we have it better than they do in impoverished countries" isn't exactly a clarion call to action...

I, too, am grateful for what I have. I am glad that we have a working public school system. I think it's important, and I value it.

What's more, I think I am an optimistic person--I am hoping that changing the system is possible, after all! But I'm also a realist, and I think our system could generally work a whole lot better than it does for GT kids.

Honestly, I think one of the biggest reasons that GT kids don't get more/better service from public schools in general (with notable local exceptions!) is because we feel like we shouldn't ask for more. We're afraid to make waves. We don't feel like our kids have a right to it.

Until OUR attitude (as a group) changes so that we feel all GT kids everywhere have a right to a good education, I don't know why the system would change.

The attitude is the basic problem, I think. I think we need to feel that our kids are *entitled* to more.

(That's really the antithesis of gratitude, which is why I'm sounding like the anti-Oprah here. )

Hi Kriston, my original glass half full comment, which got us into this discussion, was in response to this:


I guess that sounded pretty harsh to me. My DS gets a lot more than "nada" from the public school, as did I, and millions and millions of others.

I was glad to see you say this:



We all have moments of frustration. I do understand that. But to disparage "most schools" in the US (in a pretty public place, which this is) as just bows on a box of nothing was entirely too much for my sense of justice. I just wanted to pull you back from the edge before it was too late

Oh, this was all a misunderstanding then! I wondered what was going on here. Thanks for clarifying!

Here is my main point:


I think that what we are often given by the schools (or think we are allowed to ask for from the schools) to serve the special needs of GT kids tends to be more window dressing than substance. I think that until we get organized into a serious grassroots community willing to stand up and be counted--like that fight that the parents of developmentally disabled kids fought years ago--we're all going to keep fighting the same fights.

I don't mean that our education system literally does nothing. (And I have noted that some pockets do quite well, thank you very much!) I was attempting to be metaphorical, to make a "the emperor has no clothes" kind of statement...

But I should know better than to wax poetic about policy. Bad form on my part.

Kriston: I am also struck by the fact that we all seem to be fighting the same small battle over and over again throughout the country. Think of all the time and effort that we, as parents, spend trying to 'educate' our schools. If there were some form of national gifted movement that would establish a national policy on acceleration, or a national policy on a gifted program that had more meat on it and less bows, then think of all the time we could have on our hands to address other injustices both here in our corner of the world and abroad.

It just seems silly for us to all be working on so small and so local a scale. I know that if local efforts work for our child then life is good for us as individuals. <this is being said from a person whose child has enjoyed the benefits of grade acceleration!> But substantive change in any area (women's voting rights, civil rights, or educational rights of disabled kids) has only come about when individuals stand up to be counted together. Otherwise, a single voice screaming alone is never heard, or at best, is heard by the very few.

The only danger I can see about a national policy on something like grade acceleration is that the educational wind could shift in a few years and the powers that be could nationally prohibit grade acceleration. Or, as in the case of Ohio's new laws on gifted education, some school districts with very pro-gifted policies may have to cut back in order to align with a national policy.

Okay, I've been away from this thread and will comment on some things going back to Friday.

1. As Kriston hypothesized, I don't see private schools as an educational Mecca. I'm actually not wild about having to fork over thousands of dollars every year for tuition when my property tax already pays for schools. But I'm not just unhappy on behalf of my kids. I'm grumpy about the appalling educations foisted on millions of kids in this country. Remember, I live in California, the home of whole language reading.

In California, private schools offer two very important advantages:

A. A longer school day. Private schools offer ~6 hours per week in extra time in California. They start at the same time and end at 3:30. Public schools in this state let out at 2:15-ish except on Wednesdays, when they close at 1:15 for "in service days." This is EVERY Wednesday and it's ridiculous. The extra time gives the private schools time for music, art, science, etc.

B. Private schools are often more open to acceleration.

A minor advantage in private schools is many don't force the AR stuff, which strikes me as a bit silly. If my kid wants to read his science encyclopedia instead of a book that has a calculated AR factor of 4.7, he should be encouraged to read the encylopedia! The whole point should be to encourage them to enjoy reading, not to force them into lockstep with some synthetic reading level.

2. I agree that systemwide reform is essential. While our own kids have to be a priority, that doesn't mean that we can't make noise about changing the system as a whole. We're all forced to waste and incredible amount of energy by dealing with the same 6 issues.

One major thing that needs to come back is ability grouping. There are still plenty of people in this country who are old enough to remember the A, B, and C groups in math, spelling, and reading. Many don't know that these groups have all but disappeared.

In my school at least, there was no status or stigma attached to being in a particular group. It was just where you were, and that was that. From what I could see, no one cared, and besides, some kids in the B math group were outstanding at things like music or art or sports that kids in the A math group couldn't do to save their lives. I still remember a girl tutoring me in how to draw; she was in super-accelerated honors art. I just couldn't do it, and yet it was so easy for her. Yeah, ability grouping was a good way to teach us that different people have different talents.

Val

My kids school is an accelerated magnet (public) and it still has ability grouping. They also do pre-tests for various subjects and the kids who pass get enrichment activities rather than the regular work. They even let kids go to diffrent grades for various subjects too. The kids have amazing opportunities in art, music and dance too.

It sounds as if things are very different around the country!!!!

Well said!

The only problem I see with this, and Kriston, correct me if I am wrong, is that you are talking about more for HG kids, right??? Haven't you said before you feel the MG population is being served well enough? (not perfect, but well enough) Percentage wise, how many HG kids are there out there? To me it isn't the same as the women's voting rights, civil rights, etc. because with those you are talking about enormous portions of the population who could come together for the greater good for a great number. If you are talking about things for that 1 kid out of an entire district, I just can't see that many people being too worried about it. I'm not saying it is right, I'm just being realistic. Or am I missing something in what you are saying?

I also think that if you are talking about a system revision, you have to look at the flip side of the coin too. I realize that this is a forum for GT kids, but we should not forget children who are average or lower. It is not as easy to get services for "lower than average" kids either.

I spent my career working with these kids and to get them the services they need is just as difficult. Most often they get what is considered a "minimum to get by". I had to sit in meetings and state for the record that some of these kids could do well without my particular service, simply because the service was just not available at the particular school. Had I not done that, the child would be hard pressed to get any services at all.

The entire educational system needs revision, based on the reality that ALL kids are individuals and they can not be put in boxes as they are now. Even among HG kids, no two are alike in their learning style, their interest and their capacity to learn in any one given clssroom.

I think that is why we continue to have the same arguments over and over with those who educate our children. There are too many variables that can not be addressed in the current system and I am wondering if there is a model that would work globally for all children?

Perhaps that is what the advocates (here and everywhere) need to develop? Should every child get the testing that we pay loads of money to get privately? Then, each child has a written score for placement...but what about the kids who are not good test takers?

Many variables to wrap your head around. Especially when you come from a situation like I did, where there was one school, one ciriculum, you sank or you swam. I am glad that there are options for my children and perhaps the questioning will bring a better tomorrow for the next generation.

As a taxpayer and US citizen I am entitled and feel responsible to understand and critically evaluate the effectiveness of our local and national public schools. It�s a commonplace preemptive argument against possible criticism to imply that you must have a child in the system in order to comprehend the issues.

Honestly, I have met a greater number of parents whose children are in our public schools who are completely oblivious to educational measures, issues and debates than non-participating, but informed citizens who try to effect change at the local level here. In many cases, as long as their child receives mostly As, the parents lap up whatever the school district proposes and accuses those who question the agenda of �not supporting the kids�.

I know there are many excellent public school districts throughout the country, but we don�t happen to live in one. What makes this particularly irritating is that there are several districts (with nearly identical demographics) both near and far that offer more academic challenge and perform far better on NATIONAL testing while collecting less than half per $100,000 in property taxes. Our school district mantra is the more money the district collects, the better the education for the kids. Period. They ignore the fact that our children are at a disadvantage for even moderately competitive schools because the high school doesn�t offer any AP classes at all and, of course, no IB diplomas.

Conversely, I�ve been researching schools in the N. VA area as we may be moving there next summer. I am certain we could be quite satisfied with one of several public schools in that area as their educational philosophies seems more aligned to our (higher) expectations. As an added bonus, our property taxes would be ~ 40% of what we currently pay for the same home value.

If you attack a perception problem head on, you will lose and waste your energy.

You have to come at it from a different direction entirely.

Austin,
I am learning to appreciate your insights from a different angle. But,being really new to getting my dds what they need, I feel like I'm trying not to burn bridges with teachers, get a good education for my kids, and educate "the system". I feel like I have no idea what the proper angle is so it all feels like a crap shoot and I dislike it for all parties involved.

Does that make sense?

You are correct. The citizens I refer to know better than to attack the schools, although the school officials have been quite tenacious with their attacks against anyone who inquires regarding their lack of transparency. Even those who know better, repeat the hype about the fantastic schools in order to maintain home values in this area. For selfish reasons (such as avoiding financial ruin), we hope the misperceptions hold at least until we sell our house!

Well, I will correct you: no, I am talking about more for ALL GT kids, perhaps even more for those kids above average but below GT, since often I think they often get the shaft worse than even the HG+ kids and could be quite well-served by many of the same sorts of helps that HG+ kids could use.

I think MG kids are generally better served right now than HG+ kids (or not-quite GT kids, for that matter), but even that service is hit or miss. Is an hour a week of fluffy fun in a GT pullout enough for an MG kid? I'd say no. And that sort of thing is all too common in schools today.

So yes, I think we have virtually the EXACT same situation that developmentally disabled families--or even the civil rights movement--were facing back in the day. I'm looking at a minority population whose needs are not being met, but it's a sizeable minority. If we put our voices together, we'd make a LOT of noise.

Well, I don't want to get into a "who has it worse" competition, but my son's 1st grade class was located right next to the special ed classroom. I saw TWO adults working 1-on-1 with kids. (That's more than one! Each time I was in the school, regardless of the time of day. It seemed to be the norm.)

Now, I do not begrudge the children that help. But meanwhile, my HG+ child was sitting in a regular classroom getting NO services whatsoever. No pullout, no differentiation, no nothing. (There's my "nothing with a bow on it," BTW...) He learned literally nothing in the 6 weeks he was in 1st grade except that he was a bad kid who got in trouble all the time, that he was the smartest kid he knew (ugh), and that school was frustrating and pointless.

If the school had given him even a little bit of 1-on-1 attention--let alone 2-on-1!--and we'd still have him in the public schools!

And don't get me started on the conversations I've had with a new friend who can't get over the fact that there's NO money or special public school setting for my son, when her developmentally disabled son the same age is getting a free, specialized education at a school just for him. "That makes no sense," she keeps saying. "If they can serve my son, why can't they serve yours?"

So while things aren't ideal for developmentally disabled kids, they're a whole lot better than what I see for GT kids. After all, if I'm aspiring to the services granted to developmentally disabled kids, then that says something about how bad it is, right?

I agree. We got a letter from the school last week saying that if we believe one of our kids has a disability, the school system will have to test him and provide services if the tests are positive. There is SO much for kids with disabilities, and next to nothing for bright ones. That's wrong. Just because kids are bright doesn't mean that they don't need help too. Yet instead, they get the opposite in many cases.

Val

Many districts in our state stuggle with meeting the needs of children with physical and developmental disabilites. Many are not able to provide the level of services that are recommended/needed for those children. This is especially the case for children in rural districts where therapists may have to travel several hours to get to the school for one child.

Yes, that's true. But at least there's an infrastructure for them. They have certain rights in the system that GT and other kids don't have. This is what I don't like.

Spending on special education is also way out of proportion, too (check here) . Look at table 3. Spending on special ed. is out of proportion to student numbers. Spending on gifted ed. isn't even mentioned in the paper but is very, very low in comparison.

Val

Agreed, Dottie. I don't like that sort of positioning either.

My whole point was that I think services are needed for the developmentally disabled, and I admire and wish to emulate the grassroots movement that those parents spearheaded that made inroads toward getting those services. I was NEVER comparing needs. I think services for BOTH tails of the Bell curve are needed.

I'd like to take a page from their book, since, as Val notes, there are at least some protections afforded to developmentally disabled kids. Our kids have no such rights.

And the middle too, I hope

I don't want anyone to think I was making comparisons in this way. I was only pointing out spending disparities. I've also said before that I think the system as a whole needs to be addressed.

I agree with others who've said that if a lot of personal attention can be given to kids with disabilities, it can be given to other kids as well.

Val