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But is that a helpful perspective? I mean, if we dwell upon what's better for us than for others, we don't get motivated to push for more.

And I really do believe that GT kids should get more from the public education system. I am a fan of the concept, even a fan of the practice in some places. It's not all bad, even in the worst places, I don't think.

But overall, as a system, I think the public education system needs to do more for GT kids.

It is for me, it may not be for you. And that is ok, we're all different in how we view things.

I mean is it helpful overall, for GT education in general? I don't think the complacency that "glass half-full" thinking breeds is good for GT education.

I think I'm becoming motivated to take some national action. I'm tired of seeing the same 5 or 6 problems and school responses popping up here. I'm tired of all of us fighting the same fights over and over. I want change!

I missed the logical connection that somehow seeing the glass half full (or 3/4 full)somehow leads to complacency. I think many of the people who made meaningful changes were optimistic people. I can be grateful for what I have while working for change. It's more fun to work while happy than angry.

I agree. And I'm not angry. Maybe frustrated. But not angry.

I just think that saying "Well, we have it better than they do in impoverished countries" isn't exactly a clarion call to action...

I, too, am grateful for what I have. I am glad that we have a working public school system. I think it's important, and I value it.

What's more, I think I am an optimistic person--I am hoping that changing the system is possible, after all! But I'm also a realist, and I think our system could generally work a whole lot better than it does for GT kids.

Honestly, I think one of the biggest reasons that GT kids don't get more/better service from public schools in general (with notable local exceptions!) is because we feel like we shouldn't ask for more. We're afraid to make waves. We don't feel like our kids have a right to it.

Until OUR attitude (as a group) changes so that we feel all GT kids everywhere have a right to a good education, I don't know why the system would change.

The attitude is the basic problem, I think. I think we need to feel that our kids are *entitled* to more.

(That's really the antithesis of gratitude, which is why I'm sounding like the anti-Oprah here. )

Hi Kriston, my original glass half full comment, which got us into this discussion, was in response to this:


I guess that sounded pretty harsh to me. My DS gets a lot more than "nada" from the public school, as did I, and millions and millions of others.

I was glad to see you say this:



We all have moments of frustration. I do understand that. But to disparage "most schools" in the US (in a pretty public place, which this is) as just bows on a box of nothing was entirely too much for my sense of justice. I just wanted to pull you back from the edge before it was too late

Oh, this was all a misunderstanding then! I wondered what was going on here. Thanks for clarifying!

Here is my main point:


I think that what we are often given by the schools (or think we are allowed to ask for from the schools) to serve the special needs of GT kids tends to be more window dressing than substance. I think that until we get organized into a serious grassroots community willing to stand up and be counted--like that fight that the parents of developmentally disabled kids fought years ago--we're all going to keep fighting the same fights.

I don't mean that our education system literally does nothing. (And I have noted that some pockets do quite well, thank you very much!) I was attempting to be metaphorical, to make a "the emperor has no clothes" kind of statement...

But I should know better than to wax poetic about policy. Bad form on my part.

Kriston: I am also struck by the fact that we all seem to be fighting the same small battle over and over again throughout the country. Think of all the time and effort that we, as parents, spend trying to 'educate' our schools. If there were some form of national gifted movement that would establish a national policy on acceleration, or a national policy on a gifted program that had more meat on it and less bows, then think of all the time we could have on our hands to address other injustices both here in our corner of the world and abroad.

It just seems silly for us to all be working on so small and so local a scale. I know that if local efforts work for our child then life is good for us as individuals. <this is being said from a person whose child has enjoyed the benefits of grade acceleration!> But substantive change in any area (women's voting rights, civil rights, or educational rights of disabled kids) has only come about when individuals stand up to be counted together. Otherwise, a single voice screaming alone is never heard, or at best, is heard by the very few.

The only danger I can see about a national policy on something like grade acceleration is that the educational wind could shift in a few years and the powers that be could nationally prohibit grade acceleration. Or, as in the case of Ohio's new laws on gifted education, some school districts with very pro-gifted policies may have to cut back in order to align with a national policy.

Okay, I've been away from this thread and will comment on some things going back to Friday.

1. As Kriston hypothesized, I don't see private schools as an educational Mecca. I'm actually not wild about having to fork over thousands of dollars every year for tuition when my property tax already pays for schools. But I'm not just unhappy on behalf of my kids. I'm grumpy about the appalling educations foisted on millions of kids in this country. Remember, I live in California, the home of whole language reading.

In California, private schools offer two very important advantages:

A. A longer school day. Private schools offer ~6 hours per week in extra time in California. They start at the same time and end at 3:30. Public schools in this state let out at 2:15-ish except on Wednesdays, when they close at 1:15 for "in service days." This is EVERY Wednesday and it's ridiculous. The extra time gives the private schools time for music, art, science, etc.

B. Private schools are often more open to acceleration.

A minor advantage in private schools is many don't force the AR stuff, which strikes me as a bit silly. If my kid wants to read his science encyclopedia instead of a book that has a calculated AR factor of 4.7, he should be encouraged to read the encylopedia! The whole point should be to encourage them to enjoy reading, not to force them into lockstep with some synthetic reading level.

2. I agree that systemwide reform is essential. While our own kids have to be a priority, that doesn't mean that we can't make noise about changing the system as a whole. We're all forced to waste and incredible amount of energy by dealing with the same 6 issues.

One major thing that needs to come back is ability grouping. There are still plenty of people in this country who are old enough to remember the A, B, and C groups in math, spelling, and reading. Many don't know that these groups have all but disappeared.

In my school at least, there was no status or stigma attached to being in a particular group. It was just where you were, and that was that. From what I could see, no one cared, and besides, some kids in the B math group were outstanding at things like music or art or sports that kids in the A math group couldn't do to save their lives. I still remember a girl tutoring me in how to draw; she was in super-accelerated honors art. I just couldn't do it, and yet it was so easy for her. Yeah, ability grouping was a good way to teach us that different people have different talents.

Val

My kids school is an accelerated magnet (public) and it still has ability grouping. They also do pre-tests for various subjects and the kids who pass get enrichment activities rather than the regular work. They even let kids go to diffrent grades for various subjects too. The kids have amazing opportunities in art, music and dance too.

It sounds as if things are very different around the country!!!!