Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional What else should I do (or not do)

Wow, Can I say I've really found a group of people who I can talk to and finally share my thoughts, instead of apologizing first.

Now I truly should give Tae Kwon Do another try. I paid for his Kung Fu lessons when he just turned four and he got kicked out after two lessons, as he was off doing his own moves. Later in the summer, I signed him up for Tae Kwon Do. Still being warned on and off about listening, he did last through the whole 10 sessions. But I was afraid to do it again, also because he started doing moves at school. Maybe I can give this another try, just to remind him not to play with the moves, especially at school.

His maturity is all over the place as well. Couple weeks ago, he told us how he saw some of the teenagers not respecting the elders, and they would regret that when they get old. He would sought to read all those scientific type books from the school library on one subject of his interest at the time, but refused to read a fourth grade fiction book given by the teacher, who tried to match the book to his capability. Then again, he would express his disappointment out loud of not being able to listen to more when the teacher finished reading stories to the class. I gave up those drill sheets at home when he was a little over 4. But at school, he just would not finish those sheets during the class and claimed that he knew those already, and it was too much writing for him in order to do those perfectly. He would mostly then proceed walking around the classroom to see how others were doing, then of course got himself in trouble. (He has one of those to be generously retested this week. I had to type up the whole sheet over the weekend so that he could practice at home. His practice run went just fine at home while even talking to me at the same time. We will see how it goes at school.) He would tell us all those fancy stories like happening in a movie and sometimes even acted it, but when it is school-time to write a story, be it fictional or not, all he could do were two sentences and messily printed letters.

He started doing double digit multiplication "in his head" shortly after entering 2nd Grade, all figured out on his own. I stopped teaching him any math "officially" right after the multiplication table, as the school is moving so slow on the subject and his social problem really making me afraid to move him even further. I feel really guilty not teaching him more when I am typing this. He now sometimes comes out the blue to tell us that he has figured out how some machines work and the astronomy evolution stuff, so I know he is feeding himself. I've just noticed that it has been emphasized that our GT program will help to challenge their minds, but is not designed to accelerate the curriculum. So maybe I should still explore some subject acceleration. So far he is pretty happy at the GT sessions. It sounded like they are even doing some simple algebra, maybe not the in the strict algebra sense/term. He would tell me "we were talking about 3x+6=12" and was excited that next week that they are going to do negative numbers.

Thanks for the info on 504, I went through the documentation of the school district, and looks like at least I can try to start an IEP for some accommodation other than sitting in the front
row, which he already does. I was heartbroken reading the two-page summary from his PE teacher submitted for PTC. It basically says he is a disruption for the class and she is worrying about his self-esteem (a positive spin, but may very well be true). So maybe 504 can help out some PE class accommodation as well.

Now that you have mentioned allergy, he's got multiple food allergies, asthma, eczema. Moreover, those are only the ones that I've found out the hard way and asked the doctors to test for. I maybe need to take him to an allergy specialist to get him really checked out.

Fish oil sounds like a good idea. Do you have the recommended dosage on those, or is it based on what's contained in the fish oil?

Can I say arguing with us parents has less consequences than doing that with the teacher ? The list for "debating" is going to be great for us to get started at home.

Thanks to all your replies, I feel that I've really got something that I may ask the doc at the visit, and hopefully he also takes a holistic approach . Same for what I can connect with the school on. I will certainly report back.

One tip on the tkd classes; we started ds at one where they did a bit of group exercise then lined the kids up in one long line to 'wait their turn' to kick a bag or something similar. He would be seriously off-course by the time it was his turn so in the end we didn't go with that school. We found another, further away (of course!) which had more instructors per child, and would pretty much keep them moving the entire time - that was a big difference for our ds.

Since I last posted, we did a lot of stuff.

We went to see a doctor at this clinic specialized in child development issues, and the doctor is specialized in GT kids based the online intro. After couple tests (computer and paper)/interviews, the assessment is that he has ADHD but gifted. But the doctor does not have a measurement of giftness other than the assessment results that we have provided. His classroom teacher, his GT teacher and his music teacher all filled out the assessment forms along with us parents. When I was at the result review session with the doctor, he suggested (1)try to ask for an IEP as he does truly qualify for special ed (2)send him to couple private schools which are best in terms of catering to more gifted kids, other than being really expensive (36K a year!) (3)talk to his pediatrician for medication.

For (1), I went to talk to his school and we actually set him up to meet the school social worker 30min/wk, but just to talk about him working on blurting, perseverance (so that he does not give up on harder problems if he is challenged by his classroom teacher), and working on social maturity.

For (2), that is what I was really disappointed. I did the research before the meeting and knowing there are several local public schools offering classrooms (or being a GT magnet school) for GT kids, and they had just started this five-year-research project on 2e kids. The doctor sure was not aware of those schools nor the research project. But his lack of awareness of those schools was what really makes me think ...

For (3), I talked to the pediatrician about meds even before DS had those visits with this doc. But we are still on the fence on this, and I really need some hard facts to persuade DH on this, yet the reality is that there are situations going both directions reacting to the meds.

Then for (2), I applied to two out of those four schools; this was based on distance to home around 20 miles. Each school had different assessments and parent/teacher recommendations. I stated his 2e condition to the program even before we officially applied. He was accepted by both. He went to one school for a one-day-stay (for which I did not stay) and went to the other one for a morning visit (for which I was there). He told me he liked the overall school experience at the one-day-stay school. Given the other school is even further out, we decided to transfer him to the GT program at the school which he visited for a day.

Both DS and I have been excited and getting ready for the new school year. I was even holding off possibly making a visit to Dr. Ruf, thinking all things will coming on track, given the GT program and the research project taking place at the same time. So last night I sent an email to the new teacher. One of the things I mentioned was the 2e topic. I received an email back today! Yes, the teacher is aware of the 2e issue. Then he went on to describe that during that one-day-visit, DS had been blurting/interrupting and being very disruptive to the classroom environment and they are concerned about his behavior "as I did not see him being successful and I saw him disrupting the learning of the students around him, which is not acceptable" in the GT program or the school. On the other hand, he would like to discuss the behavioral plans that we had before and if I am open to an IEP; and they would closely monitor him right away and they do know he can be successful. Then he asked if I have considered medication and that research shows meds combined with behavioral plan work the best. I really don't know what to think of this. I now have doubts on my decision of transferring him. I just feel they only want smart and normal (or made to normal) kid. How about they put him in a behavioral-plan-no-med control group for the research. I don't want DS to feel "miserable" and stuck in the situation. Maybe I am being too sensitive to the wording in that reply email?

MNTCMOM-

I feel your fear here! OUCH! Sounds like the tester didn't help much. One of the problems with having 'way gifted' children is that this means that you are likely to also me 'way gifted' and being disappointed with advice aimed for ND folks comes with the turf. Try to pretend you didn't get that email, and take deep breaths. He was accepted at the school and that is a good first step.

Take a look at these books, have you tried them yet?

If this sort of thing sounds like a match, it might be faster to just join the website, for 20$ a month you get digital access to the workbook and lots of podcasts, and in a month or two you'll know if this is going to work for your family.

We have seen tremendous change, but one has to be 'ready' to do this level of shifting. I'm don't know if your son does or doesn't need medication, (Glasser is very 'anti') but even with medication it's nice to know that parents might be able to make a difference.

Keep us posted - we care!
Grinity

Grinity,
Just checked the book out at Amazon. Should I say I am feeling much at ease now? If it can be a success for other kids, maybe it will work for us as well. DS had "homegrown" charts before and did have some plateau effect , but the third grader teacher thought he was too old to use it. Actually DS last year had been begging for a chart. Although I don't think it might be too difficult to have his new school teacher to embrace a chart, the challenge will be if they will truly embrace the chart and him if this has been already stated to me that without meds a behavioral plan can only take it to so far. Earlier today, DS said he really wanted to have a "better education" at the new school (if albeit any "obstacles"). So I am going to take it easy and have an open mind, and really engage the new teacher(s). Thanks for all the support. I will sure report back, positive and/or negative.

LOL to too old for charts in 3rd grade. Mine used one very well in 6th grade, and then when email was available in 7th grade I did a weekly Friday report via email to all the teachers, including study hall! They did help us!

By 6th grade the charts do look different:
1) Arrived at class on time
2) Arrived at class with pencil, paper, all needed books and homework
3) Did things the 'teachers way'

That about covered it! In the 7th grade email, I wanted to know if there were any missed work.

Anyway, glad that you are feeling at ease now!
Website for the jumpstart is http://www.energyparenting.com/ and there is an online forum, ebook of the workbook, which is a great place to start, podcasts, article. (Say Grinity sent you if you buy the membership)

Get started, because this is so much more than a chart system. OK - there is something you can do today. 20 times today, when he is doing something neutral or positive, describe calmly what you see him doing, as in:

You are building with legos. You are using red and green bricks. Your are building something tall.

CounterIntuitive, eh? I'm serious though, and keep track and see if you get to 20 times, ok?

AS for the teacher, time to start building that relationship with him/her. Say that you are grateful that he took the time to write, and that you are glad to know that he knows your son can be successful. Short and sweet.

Sounds like lining up an appointment for a Ruf consultion is worth doing. Especially if you and DH are going to be battling it out over medications. Hopefully by the time your appointment date comes up, you will be totally at ease!

Smiles,
Grinity

Grinity,
Thanks yet again for all the details and encouragement. I've got another email reply back from the teacher today, which I also appreciate the quick positive feedback on my chart thoughts. So I am going to keep the communications going with the school and also to work on more of these helpful approaches. Thanks again!

Hi MNTCMom - Glad to hear there is a better sounding school in your ds future.
Sometimes the teacher communications can be very helpful, sometimes puzzling, especially via email. When in doubt I usually give a call or pop my head into the class after school, when possible.
It seems to me a period without medicine in the new environment would be a better way to 'get a baseline' on your ds' behavior with more challenge. I think Grinity used that term/idea from her pediatrician in another thread.
It's just a logical process of elimination, you have questions as to whether more challenge/less boredom will help with focus for your ds, so it makes sense to give it a try. If you change too many factors at once, say environment + meds, you might not be able to tell which really makes the difference.
Re: charting, my ds is entering 4th next year and we are using a behavior jar, he gets a large marshmallow in it when I catch him doing something good, small treats at certain intervals and is working towards an overall larger treat at the end of a few weeks. He behaves pretty well at home, and does very well at school but needs work on social skills and interacting so when he makes an effort we want to recognize it, and he doesn't feel too old for it, at all! Ps, we had him officially assessed earlier this year, no adhd, but the social and a couple other issues to work on. The doctor was pretty surprised by his 'energy' levels...

Oh, and we did stop tae kwon do for a while, due to how far away it was, but have now found a closer place, really close to the school. Ds is excited a few friends from school go there. In the interim when he wasn't taking it, there were some definite issues with WAY too much energy.

Best of luck going forward to you and your ds!

Chris,
Thanks for pointing out the idea of baselining, just like introducing baby the food one kind at a time.
And I just love all these different ways of doing charting, a lot of things I just cannot think of by myself.

Emailed back and forth with the teacher couple times. There is a standard initial conference during second week of school. So we have agreed to work out / agree on a plan/chart by then.
Ok, first week of four days at school. During the last two days, he has gotten three warning tickets from various teachers, (also with sitting in a corner chair in front of the entire class), so he will need to spend time in a time-out kind of room next week. The school conduct policy I've just got this week stated different levels of elevated consequences starting with that one stay.
I was told that there was only one student during the entire last year reached the ("punishment severity") level as he has now in the first week. Now that the school and teachers are really strict on the penalty system rather than credit system, although they are welcoming any chart I am going to provide, I am seriously concerned at this point. The teacher also expressed concern that if the chart only method can work given his underlying issue.
To me this is a big eye-opener or something I did not make myself aware of (or merrily thinking some 2E procedures might have been thought of given the background of the whole thing that led me to this path) when I was investigating school last school year.
He is sad about the consequence, but is begging me to let him stay because he hates learning one thing only for the whole year at the regular pace. But I just suspect the strict rules that they have now will not be an effective behavioral change tool for him, to say the least.
Nonetheless, I am going to create a credit chart and send it to the teacher, and go from there.