Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Parents of GT kids are isolated, too

For those not on TAGFAM, where this link was posted, I thought you might find it interesting:

"One of the things that we found was that the isolation of the parents almost parallels the isolation of the kids," Professor Gross said. "Many parents said, 'We can't speak about our child because people think you're boasting.'"

http://www.smh.com.au/news/parentin...-isolation/2008/10/18/1223750400724.html

That is so true. I'm glad I have this message board! Otherwise, I would be going crazy not having anyone to talk to.

Oh yes, this is so true. I try not to talk about DS6 abilities too much. My friends know that he is gt. Things like that become quite obvious after a while. What's becoming an issue now is DS4. While it's pretty much accepted that DS6 can do lots of things better than his 6 year old friends, it may be really hard for my friends to accept that DS4 can do a few things better than their 6 year olds.

I have a question about DYS and gt groups. If you are a member of gt community do you talk about your child being YS? Is it something which is OK with parents of MG children? I haven't really got into this situation yet. My IRL friends are either old friends who I haven't known since DS6 was little or in preschool or parents of HG+ children. I am about to venture into more regular gt community and I could use some advice.

That is interesting.
I am definitely selective with whom I discuss things; I know just a couple of people who also have gt kids that I am comfortable bouncing ideas or stories off.

I think I still have my own isolation issues from way back which haven't entirely worn off...

Wow! This idea really resonates with me.

I think this is an especially strong experience among parents who were "smart kids." The social isolation and subtle ridicule of being different from the rest of the group is experienced all over again. Worse yet, this time it's happening to your child and you may not know how to protect him.

The hesitancy to talk about the most important thing in one's life -- one's children and family -- leads to every social relationship being shallow or narrow.

How very sad.

Unless I think the child is a candidate for DYS, I usually keep my mouth shut about the program. It doesn't seem to serve any purpose to discuss it. MG kids are really, really smart, too, so why make it seem like an us-and-them thing?

When we were going to the Summit this past summer, I just told people who asked that DS7 had a summer camp-type thing to attend.

I have suggested that one friend look into DYS for her daughter. She's in 3rd grade and reading at a 12th grade level, so I strongly suspect she'd qualify! Fingers crossed for her!

The family has two girls who are close in age to my two boys and who are interested in many of the same things as my boys. It's a match made in heaven! We had a playdate with no problems, no tattling, no unhappy kids--not for a second. Bliss! I'd really love for the family to get into DYS!

Exactly - when I became a Mom, it gave me something in common with the 'big club' of women who have Mommed. It really helped me deal with the old isolation issues - until DS got to school age - since then there has been a pull back to that narrow place!

Particularly when the school-folks started letting me know that my son's struggles were 'really understandable since I was an older mom, of an only child, and a career-girl too' - I guess I'd call it false sympathy when you get totally blamed in a kind voice.

So Amazing that you are all here with me now!
((shrugs))
Grinity

I agree. Given the choice between being alone and silent and being looked at like I'm nutty or horrible, I pick silent.

(Hard to believe, I know... )

I think I got the message


Hmm. What makes you think we would find it hard to believe? LOL

I think it comes down to a "trump". I mean, I'm in the lucky position of having friends who know me, know DS, and know we're not obnoxious snots who just like to hear ourselves talk... but still you can't just jump into a conversation with something quite that "out there". Not because it isn't "done" but because part of the bragging that parents do among friends is in a spirit of a very minor one-upping -- not in a hurtful way, just in a "oh I know just what you're talking about, you won't believe what __ did last week that was even more of that", and everyone feels like they have something in common and everyone can contribute their own stories. But if you come in with a blow-everyone-else-out-of-the-water kind of thing, it just shuts it all down.

So even when you're "allowed" to brag, you're not. But I don't think it's always anti-intellectualism, just lack of common ground. kwim? And double-uncomfortable because it's more or less "invisible"... People make assumptions about you and your kid based on age (or height... *sigh*) and then you're stuck having to either play along or correct them... neither of which is very pleasant.... but I think it's probably a lot like the conversational dance that homeschoolers go through trying to figure out if the homeschooler they just met is religious or secular, unschooler or textbook, etc. I find the "bristling" feeling at an incorrect guess is very similar, and the isolation when you find out you're "not one of them" and the conversation fizzles.

I should add that I've been experimenting with being upfront about what DS7 can do when:

a) I'm asked directly about why we're homeschooling, since the tapdance around it can lead to misunderstandings (like he's a major troublemaker or he's got learning difficulties),

b) the person doesn't have a child his age, so there's no competition,

c) the situation is such that I can talk about it in a matter-of-fact way that doesn't sound like bragging, but sounds like "here's what we're up against, and it isn't always easy, but this works for us,"

d) I have an already friendly relationship with the person.

e) I can change the subject to the other person's life/kids pretty quickly rather than droning on and on about GTness.

If all those qualifications are met, I stick a toe in the water. I say something like, "Though our school system is a good one, it didn't work for DS7. He is pretty bright, and it just wasn't really possible for the schools to deal with his needs appropriately."

[Usually the question comes back "Whaddya mean 'pretty bright?' What needs?"]

Then I mention what he's working on very matter-of-factly with few/no details--like offering the title of the book he's reading or sying "in math, he's working on adding and subtracting fractions," period--and I get past it as fast as possible. Then I mention the possibility of putting him in a private school down the line so the person knows I'm not anti-school, and then I move on to another topic in a friendly fashion.

I haven't gotten the sense that anyone thinks I'm bragging. I'm not sure people are always 100% comfortable with a smart kid being so close to them (), but we're friendly, outgoing people (for introverts...), so I don't think anyone is coming away with too bad a view of us. I do try to always keep the other person's comfort level well in my sights as I proceed. Certainly I've seen no overt signs of a negative reaction. If I did, I'd shift gears fast!

One woman was visibly impressed with/threatened by what DS was working on, and I tried to nip that in the bud fast! "It's just how he is," I said. "It's just him. He's also the kid who can't keep his shoes tied. They're all different, and this is just his thing." That seemed to help. I also fussed over her adorable, athletic toddler (she was kicking a ball with one foot at 18 mos!), and I think that helped, too.

Personally, I feel better about at least trying to be honest about GTness in a non-threatening way. It is a big part of our lives because of the HSing, and not even mentioning it feels like lying. I am an upfront person, and I just really prefer to be upfront if I can. Homeschooling gives us a measure of freedom there, really. If people can't deal with it, it's not really a big problem for us, since we have a lot of control over who we will or will not spend our time with.

I wouldn't be so honest if we were still in the schools though. (I wasn't when we were in the schools!) Part of me thinks that in that situation, you're dealing with parents of kids the same age as yours, parents who you and your child will see for a number of years, who may be working with your child in the classroom even, but who aren't necessarily going to get it or feel kindly toward your GT child even if they do get it.

No, I think I'd keep my mouth clamped firmly shut if DS7 were still in public school...

Thanks for reminding me how much I like this forum. I would be absolutely isolated in regards to a LOT of stuff about my kids otherwise. I would probably not have advocated at school for them(or at least not effectively) had it not been for this forum.

I can't imagine what would be going on in our family if I had not advocated.

The abnormal becomes normal and that really does cut the feelings of isolation.

The commraderie, sharing of resources, ideas, experiences, tears and laughs had been invaluable. Especially the laughs!

Because I don't feel isolated that transcends to my children. They may still feel that way at school a little, but they know that home is a place where they can say and feel, just about anything.

Gradeskipping makes it hard to fly under the radar. I'm dealing with that issue now...

I have felt very isolated with my ds.

However he is so obviously quirky, different and high maintainance that I have lost count of how many times I have been told, "I didn't realise bright kids were such hard work." Other mums generally feel very sorry for me! School is such a bad fit right now that all the other kids are coming home every night to report on what he has done that day.

Interestingly the other mum who I can really discuss things with has a child with developmental delay who I am helping research a diagnosis with. She really helps and listens. It is the only time I get to reveal what he is capable of.

This morning he was racing around the playground shouting out numbers that were friends and not friends when out came the headmaster. He said to me that the other day ds had wandered down to his office to complain that he was bored! He then complained that i wouldn't answer some questions, did he know?

One of the questions was:
"How much hot liquid do you need to put in a freezer to defrost its contents and how long would it take?"

Just wondering when the school is going to help make some accommodations for him

This struck me because i'm sure that my advocacy is not being taken seriously because i'm 'a young mother of 2'.

I have 6 people that i talk to about DS and DD (excluding my DP ), 4 of them are grand parents, 1 is a mother of another very GT child, and the last is a mother of another 'average' child - but now her girl is in school I don't talk about specifics any more.
I think one other parent knows about DS because she volunteers in thier class but she's never said anything.

This is definitely the case for me when I take ds & dd to ballet practice - not dance class with all the other moms, but when ds is in a production with the regular company dancers. (A lot of kids do 1 or 2 shows during the year and they are a great experience. )
What I am referring to is bringing dd 2.5 with me - the adult ballerinas and danseurs are just ga-ga over her, and they often ask questions about her development - 'is that normal?' basically is the underlying question - they say 'she seems so smart!!'
They are all very young, no kids, and they wait outside the practice studios and play with her, ask her questions, try to stump her on pronounciation of big words.
I have been getting some pretty specific questions lately - like 'how old are kids normally when they start to learn their letters or numbers?'.
Mostly dd just has a serious gift of gab, she really does sound like a 4 or 5 year old sometimes. But I dont think that is too scary to a lot of people. She also loves trying to imitate the dancers so that really delights them.
One of the younger girls keeps comparing her to her little cousin who is three who sounds nd, in the areas she has mentioned. I always say, thanks, and point out how my dd is really almost 3 also, and speech ability is pretty varied in how old kids are when they master it.

Take Heart Cathy - this year (at a new school) I don't think that anyone knows that DS12 is 12 in 8th grade - not even the teachers! I always make sure to buy birthday card invitations that don't have an age on them - but of course this year I don't think that there will be written invitations at all - blessing of a summer birthday!

Everyone just seems to accept that his two years at the private school gave him an excellent preperation, and that he has his own twisted sense of humor.

Yippee!
Grinity

I feel for you there, we are glad we can talk to the GrandParents, but we are way more open with DP's parents than mine. I couldn't imagine not being about to discuss anything with them. Thank goodness for forums!

Feelings of isolation run very true here also, which is why we searched out this forum. When our DS6 was grade skipped people stopped talking with us and wouldn't allow their kids to play with our DS6. I answer only that DS6 is doing enjoying himself when asked how he is doing.

I hear you. That's why I try to tell the relevant people if I think I can get away with it. (Which I can't a lot of the time.)

It's really a "darned if you do and darned if you don't" situation. But to me, it's kind of like the philosophy I had for dating WAAAAAAAY back in the day: I'd rather be up-front and lose them fast rather than waste my time with someone who will hate me for who I am once they see the real me. It just saves time to be real from the start.

Being outgoing introverts makes it easier. DS7 and I are friendly and social enough that people seem to enjoy us, but ultimately we don't really care all that much about whether they do or not.

I have a handful of true friends with GT kids though, and that makes a big difference. The parents get along, the kids get along, and I feel like I can be myself and talk openly with them about what we're going through. I really feel for anyone who doesn't have that. If I could only talk to the grandparents, I'd feel really isolated.

My heart goes out to those of you in that situation!

We have lost friends over this, but not because we brought up the subject rather the kids ask each other about grades and testing etc, etc. This couple that no longer talks to us has a very different philosophy about education. They see school as a babysitting service with some learning thrown in, where we see it as our child's "job".

We are quite introverted, so we have a hard time making friends anyway. We really have more aquaintances from our activities like Swimming, library club, etc. I often feel the isolation but it's not soley from being a GT child's Mom.

I rarely talk with co-workers about DS5.5 anymore. One or two people I might occasionally talk to but that stopped very early this year. On the other hand, our neighborhood, almost unanimously, has been very supportive. That has been a pleasant surprise. I think that's because we're not viewed as pushy parents and they've seen DS grow over the last 5 years.

The funny thing is that my mother used to tell me years ago that she couldn't talk about DS any more to other grandmothers. They just didn't believe her that DS could do this or that.

Meeting the parents of DS's classmates has been a mixed bag. A fair amount of questions about skipping K and what not and a couple of negative "vibes". We probably wouldn't get as many questions from classmates except DS was asked about "K" to which he announced to everyone "I didn't go to K!". Oh well. He didn't mean to be braggin...

Met a lot of good people here though.

JB

Loneliness was daily present. This was difficult for me. Both sets of grandparents couldn't understand that certain behaviors came with the territory of being gifted. With ADHD involved, then OCD, we quickly learned to stop discussing our struggles with our parents. They were from a generation where these things weren't identified, therefore it must be "your parenting laxities." Sigh. Loneliness is compunded when relatives don't understand the reality of living with a gifted child. How I wish I had started a local support group.

Loneliness and isolation are the norm for myself and my children. My children are very intense(active and rapid speaking) and deep. I have just reacently found out my one child is gifted(still in a bit of denial) and suspect my other two are as well. That is what brought me to the wonderful site. So many things have fallen into place that i can now understand. I personally have always had a difficult time building friendships with other people, because I now understand that I am to intense for most people.


About 3 years ago I went away for a girls weekend with a women I was trying build a friendship with. I had a good time and thought she did too. Unfortunatly, one of her kids had bumped her cell phone and it left a message on my phone. In short it was the women and another neighbor disscussing me. The women basically said I was to intense, meaning i talk to deeply, and made her brain hurt. Needless to say I cried alot. Now when I see this women I am very polite and keep the conversation superficial- meaning not deep. However, when she does call me about every two months, she calls me with her problems. I always listen and am very compassionate to her.

In short I keep my mouth shut. On Hoagies I read a great quote:


"Have no friend not equal to yourself"

Now that the light has dawned, I just have to find those friends for myself and my children. Am I being to DEEP! lol

I think that our defensive mechanism of keeping quiet just makes it even more difficult for us to find each other. I'm not sure what to do about that...

I agree. That's one of the reasons I try not to be quiet if I think I can get away with it. How will my peeps find me if they don't know I'm here?

I have a great friend with a PG son who has since graduated high school that is wonderful to talk with. She has all the been there done that experience plus she's just a great person. I have one other friend that I can share with who has a daughter the same age as my DS who is HG and also autistic. There's no competition, just frustration on both of our ends that the school can't meet our kids' needs.

Other than that, I don't discuss it with anyone but my DH and my mom. I'm lucky that I even have two people outside family that get it. One friend saw my calendar with all our school meetings on the wall at home and wondered if DS was in trouble with the principal a lot. I just said "we're working out the kinks of Kindergarten." It's hard to feel like I'm almost lying to her but I know that it would devolve into a competition immediately and that'd be the end of our friendship.

Try moving from Silicon Valley (the center of geek universe, where it seemed everyone had and shared profound thougts) to the middle of the Pacific (where people ask "What [high] school you wen[t to]?"

When we were in California we were surrounded by alpha parents. So even if their child wasn't GT they were interested in enrichment activities for their child and would at least listen politely to learn what their kid could be doing.

Now we're surrounded by people who talk college football and food. Many are of the children should be seen and not heard ilk. There's not even a college town here for refuge.

I stumbled upon a book called The Gifted Adult by Mary-Elaine Jacobsen. It's the only book I've found about how bright adults see the world differently. The author talks about how bright kids are often told to tone down and so they limit themselves and fail to self-actualize. As adults, bright people can come off as too intense and therefore have difficulty finding people to connect with. I found her descriptions to be on the mark, but wasn't so impressed with her suggestions on how to deal with others. Mostly she suggested that you find people like you. Yeah well, if it was that simple we would have already done that.

I know I come across as being too intense. It's a hard thing to control, mostly because of being enthusiastic or really serious about whatever is driving the intensity.

Val

I definitely come across as too intense much of the time, but I'm not sure if in my case it's really a symptom of being gifted as much as being... uh... intense. It probably doesn't help that I talk about a mile a minute (when I'm on a roll...) and change subjects at the drop of a hat.

I don't always find "people like me", but I've found enough who laugh at my jokes that I'm good for now.... I don't really need my friends to keep up with my train of thought all the time, but when people completely miss the point of whatever I'm saying (or especially if they miss the humor and only hear the rant), it gets tiresome having to spell it out in little words. LOL!! and lest I come across as an intellectual snob here, it doesn't seem to be an issue of "gifted" as much as "having a sense of humor" that makes the difference. My brother for instance... brilliant in his area, but gets that deer in headlights look when I'm blithering on and on.

I'm intense, too. And too honest. I say what I mean and mean what I say. That often throws women off. They expect passive aggressive behavior, so if I say what I think, then they multiply that by 10 (as they'd have to do with most other women), and they think I'm even more intense than I am.

I tend to fare better with other non-passive-aggressive women (rare) and men. Men usually think I'm swell, since there's no hidden agenda and no holding a grudge. WYSIWYG.

WOW! I could have written this. I always describe myself as WYSIWYG. I am also direct and fairly blunt though I've learned to cushion what I say. Alas, I also am naive in that I tend to believe what people say and take things at face value not realizing that not everyone else is not direct or open. Yes, I too have a difficult time forming attachments. Throw both DYS kids into the mix and... Needless to say, I stopped talking about either of them when DS7 was 5y and I never talk about DD5.

We should get together socially! We'd either be inseparable or hate one another on sight, probably!

Kriston, I've always wondered why I get along better with men. Maybe you're onto something...

Well, my DH calls me "a man with boobs" and jokes with his engineer co-workers when they gripe about their touchy wives that he wishes I would be more sensitive to his emotional needs...

So, yeah, I think I probably have a pretty decent working theory, at least.

Of course, GT people tend to be more atypical of their genders, so that sort of cross-gender stuff makes some sense, I think.

And I could have written this! Being too honest can get me into trouble.

I also just don't understand why people act against their own interests so often. I've seen this kind of thing happen in specific situations I've been involved in and also in general. Personally, I've been through some very frustrating situations where the demonstrably correct course of action was rejected for reasons that were never really clear.

Maybe this goes back to the emotional-v.-rational reactions that we've talked about?

V.

Kriston-
You are very honest and open and genuine, and I like that in a friend! I can't imagine who wouldn't enjoy your company.

Hey, great detail reading Dottie! and congrats momx2!

re: being emotionally sensistive...
...I have described 'discussions' I have with dh to my sister and she just laughs: 'You argue just like a man!!' she says. And really, all I can say is, well DH is such a girl! He's super verbal and to make sure I understand what he's saying he'll reiterate like 5000 times in various slightly different forms. Meanwhile I am like, ok, please, please PLEAAAASE get to the Point. (just in my head, of course!)
Actually I think we switch back and forth sometimes, but mostly he is very precise and detailed in describing an issue, and I am oriented towards the bottom line and let's move on! Without his details though, I would be lost.
I know I must come off as not caring because I try to rush to the 'end'.

Yes, I guess its my official announcement
Yes, Kriston - we'd either be best pals or hate one another - no middle ground there! Thanks Dottie, Val and Chris1234. And yes, I've always preferred the guys v. dolls. Much easier to deal with. Too bad none of us are near one another... PA, CA, VA, etc...
Life can get lonely which is why this Board is so wonderful. Although I am not a frequent poster, I am an avid reader... You are all fabulous

Congratulations, momx2! Oh and you would like Kriston. Trust me

I am right there with Kriston and others. I say what I think and I wish more people did the same thing. I am not too much into playing games. WYSIWYG. I thought it was part of the INTJ deal or may INTJs are more likely to do so.

I'm sure I'd like all of you... I think I was ENTJ...so there is something to that MBTI stuff... Thanks KCAB for the congrats!

LOL - I thought that folks with the Introvert Preference were all 'what you see is less than 5% of what's going on in here' - not exactly WYSIWYG.

Maybe only the INTJs are posting... Does seem like a disconnect...

congrats momx2! wonderful news.

I'm here to say that there's at least one ENTP who is a little too blunt in life, and gets along better with the guys. One woman friend thought I was mean when she first met me, then she found that I was just honest and perhaps a bit too sarcastic... And I shop like a guy - in and out as quickly as possible.

And I am very grateful for this site, so I can feel like a normal person discussing concerns about my child (which i have to stifle most of the time IRL, although I do luckily have quite a few friends/relatives as support as well).

LOL! I can't speak for all introverts, of course, but remember that we INTJ-ers are Spock. The fact is, there's not a whole lot going on in here that isn't also going on out there.

When there is something that we absolutely have to hold in, we still cock one eyebrow quite noticeably and say, "Fascinating." We can't help ourselves.



And no worries, kcab. I think you and I would get along famously. We just agree way too often to be anything but good buddies. But I totally get your "fur rubbed the wrong way" analogy. You're right. I see it happen. I've just accepted that I am *not* an acquired taste: you either get me or you don't, and it's okay either way.

And Lorel:



Gosh! You're just nice. You made my whole week. Thanks!

(But really, trust me, there are plenty of people with fur rubbed all kinds of wrong by me!!!)

I have learned to keep my mouth shut the hard way.

I talk about it with some family members, most of the people in my and my husbands family are either GT or special ed....or both....lol

So they all sort of get it, although, if my sister in law say to me one more time"I am glad I'm not in you shoes" I might hit her in the head with a shoe! Her kids are both gifted, she is rowing in a river in Eygpt- "de-nile!" I have mentioned this to her a few times and she just says,"No he's just in to stuff." The older boy is 10 and last year built his own computer from extra parts they had laying around the house... yeah, into stuff.

But we found a friend on-line that lives in our area and it has turned out great! our DS7 and there DS7 are like frick and frack! I just wish they went to the same school. So we are now friendly with them.

Otherwise I smile and wave like the penguines from "Madagasgar"

Congrats momx2!

At least our immediate family doesn't freak about how smart and talented the kids are. Education is highly valued in our families, so anything that supports education is *GOOD*.

We've found a really supportive school environment. Don't know what we'll do after grade 8 though...

But socially, man-oh-man. People acknowledge how bright DD is and what a good artist she is. So I smile politely and say "thanks." Then there's that awkward silence. I try to compliment them on their child. It always feels forced.

Wow, how true that is. I have always felt this way and have talked about it with DH and my parents. Even at a young age I couldn't say anything about my child to most of my friends and others around us because of their reactions. I was truly not bragging, and at first I didn't know things were out of the norm so I thought I was just commenting on normal stuff. I just wanted to talk about my child like they could. Then people stopped talking to me about their children and when I would praise them for their children's accomplishments they would act as if I was condescending. They would respond with "well he's not reading yet like your DS" It was really hurtful.

I used to be afraid that my DS would talk in front of his peers and their parents would feel bad...I still feel like this at times, but not so much because everyone knows he is different. But when he writes notes to other 4 yo's in church and they don't write back he doesn't understand why sometimes. When he was 1-2yo and we would go to stores he would read signs, and I would always pray that no one would ask his age (he always looked older so people at least thought he was 3 when he was not quite 2 yet). It's one thing to have a child that is bright, that is generally acceptable (although I guess some people wouldn't like that either). But having a child that is highly/exceptionally gifted doesn't seem very acceptable to me. So now I don't say too much, which makes me sad. My DS tells the funniest stories and says hilarious stuff...but I write it down and maybe some day I will share it in a book. I am grateful for forums like this because it has been the only way to really share stuff about my DS and get support without feeling uncomfortable or like I am bragging.

If you meant WYSIWYG ... What You See Is What You Get..
If you did mean WYSIWIG then i have no idea.

No, that's not my real hair?

It's a term of computer geek origin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WYSIWYG It's pronounced "wizzy-wig".

Now you know way more than you wanted to on the topic

I must be old (and not techy) because I am quite familiar with Flip Wilson's Geraldine's use to the phrase, but never had any idea that WYSIWYG was computer term.

Ah... so maybe it didn't originate with the computer geeks. They just adopted it

And certainly not "spam"

Okay, now I'm thinking Monty Python again...

(Spam spam spam spam, spam spam spam spam...)

All I can say is that I am truly thankful for this board. Without it I'd be going even more crazy and have more bald spots from pulling out my hair.

Here is what I don't understand........ If you have a "regular" child who does well in school, it's ok to talk about.

If you attach the gifted label, it's like they have the plague or something. I've made the decision to be honest about my DS and if people never talk to me again, so be it. I will not boast but if asked a question, i'll answer it.

I can't believe that people are so threatened by these kids! They should be celebrated! Instead the general population worships people who can throw a ball or hit a home run. It's no wonder the U.S. is losing out to other countries.

By putting your head in the sand aren't you somehow telling your DS or DD that there is something wrong with them?

That's my take, too, Shari.

I'd rather be honest and lose people immediately than to pretend our family is something it isn't, think we have friends, and find out down the road that it simply isn't real friendship.

My DS5 is (brutally) honest when people ask him questions.

He keeps getting the, "So how is 2nd grade going?" question. Is it curiosity? Fishing for dirt? I don't know, but I had to stifle a laugh when he said it was going ok and the lady said, "So, they're keeping you busy then." He replied, "Actually, it's kind of easy." She looked surprised and then said that it would get harder in January. DS said, "January!?" in an exasperated voice.

I have no idea if I did that quote box right....but I gave it a shot. Anyow, people are selfish. And for some reason if we say anything about our child that is positive, they think that is a reflection on their child. It is literally crazy. It's all about insecurity and competition. It's so sad. When someone tells me their child is good at something, I am proud of them...that's great! I don't think to myself "are they suggesting that my child isn't as good as their child in that area?" How absurd. I have found that people that are secure about themself, and/or people that don't have children or have children that are grown are much more interested to hear about my son and respond so much more positively. I too have vowed not to hide who he is (plus I don't think I could even if I tried, LOL). But there are certain people that I feel more comfortable talking with and those that I only answer minimal questions. Because I don't like getting comments from people like "you know he is just a kid and you should really play with him" Are they serious? All we do is play all the time, it's not like I do flashcards with the kid. Half the time he runs around playing, and half the time he is reading something or learning something. He is a very playful, silly little kid. That's just what he does, and who he is.

Shari, I totally agree with you.

I think people feel more comparison when it comes to school because we all go to school. With athletic/movie/rock stars, they are people who do fantastic/fantasy things, and comparing a normally developing kid to them is perhaps less threatening. KWIM?

When I was pg with DD we were told she had a strong chance of being a Downs child - like 1 in 28. We didn't care. We were going to brag about how smart and beautiful she was even if she were an alligator. I always tell other parents how gorgeous and smart and talented their children are. I believe it, too.

My BIL is a surgeon in an agricultural town. He said he's embarrassed to tell other parents what he does because many of them didn't go to college. His father (my FIL) was also a doctor but he told everyone he knew. He loved meeting people and learning their stories. Not only were people not threatened by his smarts, they adored him for being so accessible. He never apologized for being smart and I think people liked having a doctor be their friend.

I don't know what it's like to have a child skip many grades, but no parent or child should be apologetic for who they are, whether it's an achievement or a setback. It's too bad so many people are rude and small minded.

I guess I don't really blame people who feel threatened by smart kids. My feeling is that most parents feel a little insecure. Parenting is hard and we often make decisions that we aren't quite sure are right. Then we either second-guess ourselves or become entrenched in our beliefs to protect ourselves from doubt. Basically, it's hard to parent any kid without worrying that we have goofed up.

So along comes a kid who is doing way better than yours. You start to worry even more: maybe if I had done something different my kid could have been that smart. It's frightening. People who are worried and frightened often respond badly. If you had been worrying that you hadn't been teaching your child right and that's why they are late learning to read (and the marketers are always looking to make you feel that way!), then a kid who is reading above level is going to hit a nerve.

Good points. Putting ourselves in the shoes of others makes it much easier to understand their behavior.

Not easier to live with, mind you. But certainly easier to understand.

Now, if only they would put themselves in our shoes, too...

What's this "shoes of others" thing? I was talking about myself. Not the learning to read part, but I certainly got pretty freaky when I found out other kids were eating vegetable or could sit down long enough to play a whole game of Candyland without needing to run around the house twenty times. I kept thinking there must be something wrong with my parenting that DS was so high maitenence. LOL! I have just come to assume that everyone else is as fragile and insecure as I am!

LOL!

But to clarify, you are *not* threatened by smart kids. (This I know!) So you *would* have to put yourself in their shoes to understand why they would be threatened.

I think that's always good advice.

Sorry if this is not copied correctly. I am new to this. I have read many of the boards over the past few days and can identify with so much of it. But I have to admit that I am one of the ones who has put her head in the sand, so as to not "rock the boat". Even by choosing to keep a low profile, a lot of parents still have a competitive attitude with me and with my child. In the last six months I knew I had to change, as I could see the damage being done within my own family. The "do not talk about her", "pretend it did not happen", "make excuses", "don't make a big deal out of it" had become a way of life. It was also evident that my DD14 was really beginning to wonder why we did not celebrate her accomplishments. I guess we learned early on in a small community and with family that you did not share anything about her or you would be looked upon as a bragger, others would be competitive with her, etc. There have been many along the way who have tried to tear her down or prove she is not smart. I guess you just learn to survive and keep it within your own core family, but even that was hard, as she has a younger sister who we have always thought as a normal, outgoing child, but now I wonder if she is GT, but we never identified her because her sister is very GT. Sorry, so many feelings coming out, as I am now trying to celebrate my DD14 for who she is and trying to support her.

This follows people into adulthood. Being very successful at what you do should not need any apologies, but it does. My DW is the same down to earth person she has always been, but she is not forthcoming with her role any more, due to peceptions about what senior execs do. When she was a secretary, then she was one of the girls and no one felt threatened, but not any more.

Intelligence has a qualitative aspect to it that impacts most of one's life. Being bright, being scary smart, is MUCH more of an impact on one's life than being able to throw a ball well. If someone can throw a ball, that usually does not translate into one's job performance or professional occupation. But having an IQ of 135, does - it enables things in many more aras of human endeavors.

Thinking and perceiving are something that everyone does and its tied up with the notion of self in everyone. Ball throwing is not tied up in most people's self. Someone who can outthink and out perceive you means that they can outperform you on something that is intrinsic to your identity. Its easy to see why that is threatening.

Another identity people have is their kids. We all know this.

The isolation parents feel comes from not being able to share and discuss, but also from that threat to others identity such a child represents. Superior intelligence is disruptive in many, many ways and not being able to understand why a child is so much further ahead - and knowing that child has more to offer than your child just adds another threat to that identity.

A smart adult is a threat, but a smart kid with a supportive parent is a much deeper one.

I also think that due to human history where one group from the outside has always displace another - there is a deep seated fear of others that is intrinsic to human identity. Smartness may tap into this as well.

When I put myself in some shoes, I just need a bath afterwards!!

The way around this is for others and you to realize that a smart kid has more to offer the world as well.

A surgeon does things for the community that no one else can do that makes us all better off. Ditto the business owner or scientist or writer.

At its root, this is a social isolation problem that many, many people have - from the elderly, the police officer, etc due to the nature of who or what they do.

Here is the type of responses I have gotten from most people. I will just generalize into 5 types of response I get from people (I understand there are more than this...but here are the basic responses I have to my most likely exceptionally gifted 4yo, and the responses were even more extreme when he was 2 and 3).

Shock and Awe - This type of person is completely shocked about the things my DS does and says. They ask lots of questions about how we created a child like this, and what he is eating, etc. How we taught him to read, what we do to "teach" him.

Shock and Disgust - This type of person finds my DS very odd and acts as if he is a freak because of his abilities. They talk about how he won't be normal socially and act as if he has a disability and wonder what I am going to "do with him" They often make condescending and sarcastic comments about his abilities. When he was 2 they would say things like "well her kid could help you fix your computer if you need it."

Shock and concern - This type of person is amazed by abilities, and is concerned about my DS's future and what troubles he may have. They ask lots of questions and give lots of advice about future placements and schools, etc. The often recommend home-schooling to me.

Shock and insecurity - This type of person turns away when anyone else talks about my son. When they say anything about their on child they act as if it isn't really that good because my son did that forever ago. Or at times if they have older children they say that their children did all the same stuff at his age.

Understanding - This type of person understands the obstacles we have ahead, but wants to get to know me and my child better. They don't just lump him into a category because of his intelligence. The treat him with respect and are proud and eager to hear of his accomplishments...and ask to hear more.

So my favorite is the last one. thankfully I have found a lot of friends and support, but have encountered many of the others along the way. I have yet to encounter a real life person with a child anything like my own...but I have read about them, LOL. I can't wait to meet one some day.

Nicely put - I will add that you've mentioned the punchline to my
'how do you tell if you are a competitive parent or a responsive parent?' joke.

Punchline: If you see that there IS a child in your kid's class that is 'like yours' do you become anxious or joyful?

Smiles,
Grinity

lol, I like that joke. It's just so true. maybe someday : )

Great thread!

My story of isolation due to the awareness gap is woven throughout this article on raising/educating the gifted.
http://editor.viewfromwithin.net/wpmu/2008/10/25/life-is-like-a-box-of-chocolatesforrest-gump-1994/

Sorry for the ridiculous url, the article is called 'Life is like a box of Chocolates'. It is written as a look back across 18 years of raising a profoundly gifted child. It begins with the myth of what I once, fleetingly imagined it would be like to be be the parent of a prodigy to point out that this myth actually makes it more difficult to identify gifted children.

My son, now 18 and a software developer is also contributing articles at http://viewfromwithin.net/geek.htm and accepting comments at his blog.

regards
Rosie

Wow, great article! Thanks so much for sharing. It sounds like you had your share of heartaches, but so glad that you were such a great advocate for your son and that he is successful and happy. That is wonderful!

That's a great article. Everytime I hear another set of stories, I just cringe inside. Your son was fortunate to have a mom who loved him deeply.

Edit:

I think the identification and tracking of gifted kids needs to start with the medical profession because they are the first to be able to see a child's advanced skills - which show up long before school starts.

Right now, in the US, there is a standard for identifying at-risk kids during checkups. By at risk, I mean developmentally delayed.

But, pediatricians and their staff are also in position to screen for precocity and then to inform and counsel parents on giftedness. The medical interest lies in the fact that not providing the proper environment for GT kids leaves them open to mental health issues.

In our own case, our Pediatrician came right out and told us our DS was "a little advanced" and then "he is very advanced" at his checkups. But, that was all she said.

It would be very easy to insert a few classes into Pediatric Nurse and Pedatrician inservice seminars on this along with suggested handouts. Such handouts should cover the relevant issues along with parental loneliness/difficulties.

Hi Austin,
Thanks for the feedback. I've figured out the comments on my blog now and will open them up when I've finished here.

I agree with you about the early intervention. My son had a lot of developmental checks through his family day care and had contact with the pediatrician who oversaw his treatment for asthma. We were at the GP every other week for a couple of years yet none of these people either noticed or explained my son's giftedness. Either it was hidden by his motor and language delays (not to mention astigmatism and inability to concentrate on anything) or they must have not wanted me to know.

The before-school test of eye-sight picked up both the giftedness and the vision problems but the consequences of the giftedness were not explained. No one seemed to link behavioural issues with giftedness, or imagine that a child could have adhd AND be gifted. DS's strengths meant that people refused to entertain that he also needed intervention- for dyspraxia and ADHD. Looking back, my son's giftedness ended up having far greater impact on his life than his problems but only because I was able to address those problems.

When my son was finally diagnosed at age 5 with both adhd and high giftedness and sent for an assessment with a speech therapist, the therapist said that he didn't want to identify my son as gifted because gifted children get too much pressure on them. This was not personal as the guy didn't know me from Adam, it is just a stereotype many people hold.

Ironically, when I took the diagnosis back to the GP who had probably seen more of my child than most of the professionals he told me that he had always known that he had ADHD but had thought that it would not do him good to be diagnosed and labelled! That he had known what I was going through the whole first five years and chose never to validate it was amazing.

And it was often a challenge to deal with some of the pediatricians (we moved around a lot) who thought my son was missing out on being socialised by being homeschooled. Not so much that they would not help us but just as something to nag me with each visit. The last one we saw just before my son turned eighteen told him to go back to university. He didn't seem to get that my son had already been to university and had been working as a full time software developer for a year or more.

I know these people mean well but it would be nice if the professionals we are dealing with were educated about high intelligence. So I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say.

regards
Rosie

Hi Shelly,

Thanks for the feedback, it means a lot. I know my son appreciates what has been done in his name and I am thankful for that. It would be nice however, if society at large had some way of understanding it.

regards
Rosie

Now that I have had a chance to think about things and recollect more, my mom suffered as much from her GTness and as from dealing with mine. I know I caused her challenges on a daily basis and it wore her down. Some of the things that she did that caused me pain were the result of dealing with me.

Keeping parents sane and fired up is as important as taking care of the kids.

This is another area of research that is sadly totally lacking.

Good thing we all have a place to meet up.

Sing it, sister!

Sometimes I think I am barely holding on to my sanity here. I am part of the sandwich generation and sometimes my sandwich is a little too much for me to chew. The top slice of bread is my mother who was probably gifted (the jeopardy contestant kind of gifted) whose IQ plummeted in one day during routine surgery, probably due to mini-strokes that also left her with extreme memory loss and dementia. The bottom slice is my son whom I am trying to homeschool because he is twice exceptional and our state does not require an appropriate education for twice exceptional kids. There is not one day that I don't think about my mother. I can't help but imagine what it would be like to be able to think and learn easily in the morning and later that evening be unable to remember what happened 30 seconds before so that reading or even following what is happening on television is impossible and there is nothing that can be done about it--for the rest of her life. My son and I visit her every day but she doesn't remember us. We know that these visits are really for my dad. We understand the stress of isolation and the effect it has on mental health.

The isolation I feel is hard to deal with and I think my son wonders if it is his fault since our community is not very "geek" friendly. He calls himself a geek, has no problem with other people thinking he is a geek, and I have heard some of his friends refer to themselves as geeks. They don't fit in with our sports obsessed community with no library, but a very nice football field, because instead of sports, they like to read, play musical instruments and do musical theater and play video games, and they seem much more knowledgable about computers than most of the adults where we live. My son's friends' parents are all teachers and engineers and he likes talking to them too. My son has more friends than I ever did.

But there is only one person in my community other than my husband that I feel I can really talk to and she is the mom of two of my son's gifted friends. She also happens to be a special ed teacher, so she understands both my son's giftedness and his disabilities and it is really weird that she seems more like me than my own sisters.

My son wonders if we are shunned by members of our community because of him--especially the homeschool group we belonged to for a short time. Yesterday, he referred to himself as my "NSDS" and when I asked what that was he said "not so dear son." He had been teasing me, as he often does, but he has been doing this a little too much lately. Everyone is telling me it is common for kids to tease each other and since he isn't in school he doesn't have anyone to tease except me or his sister who lives in another state who can just hang up on him.

Hi Lori,

When we discuss the issues of giftedness it is usually in the context of our children. There is some awareness and resources for adults but on the whole we tend to put our resources into thinking about our children rather than the generational dynamics and experiences. It is only now my son is grown and we are not so worried about money that I have begun to think about my own childhood in this context. And I've promised myself that one day I'll get around to really examining the topic. I'm planning on doing it through my writing, hence my recent foray into journalism so that I could improve my writing skills.

I think though that in generations to come, such as when the younger generation is grown that we might begin to see a more generational approach to the issues as having been raised with so much more awareness and information, they might be more proactive about dealing with giftedness from an adult perspective.

I know that I've definitely had some adjustments. Not just as someone who is the mother of a gifted child, but as a former gifted child myself. I say former because a lot of that identity gets stripped away as you grow up. I think the absolute weirdest adjustment for me was that I was always the "youngest" to do things and figure out information. But, I grew up. At some point, being the youngest, which was completely as much a part of my identity as many other things, was no longer part of who I was. That, I think, was one of the hardest shifts.

But, how do you talk to people about that? Even trying to think of how to open my mouth and say it, I can't fathom that someone wouldn't take it as partially bragging. So, there is a sense of isolation because some of the things I experience as not things that regular people have gone through.

Hi Rosie,

I think you mentioned in one of your posts that your gifted son also had dyspraxia so I think you might understand some of the things we are going through. I want my sensitive, gifted ten year old son with motor dyspraxia and hypotonia to grow up happy and healthy. I know that isolation can sometimes lead to depression and I want to protect my son from this if at all possible. Anxiety issues run in my family so I really worry about this. We still have the teen years ahead of us.

Since my son is unable to do sports in a sports obsessed community we don't have that connection with lots of other families with kids his age. He is in cub scouts but he feels very different from the other kids, except for one gifted kid his age, and the leaders are now asking me if I want him to go ahead and cross over to Boy Scouts after the first of the year along with his gifted friend. He has several older friends already in Boy Scouts but I worry about the physical challenges.

At holiday dinners with our extended family the discussion is often about the cousins who get a lot of attention for their sports ability. One of the cousins has received a lot of attention for his ability as a quarterback on our local high school team and has been interviewed several times on a local television station, but he is also very smart and one of the relatives recently told us that this cousin also aced the ACT. Relatives wonder why my son needs to be homeschooled if his cousin did just fine at the school.

My son doesn't feel like he fits in with his cousins. He is quiet around them. He knows they don't want to hear anything about what he is doing. It isn't socially acceptable to talk about musical theater or spelling bees in a sports community or even in your own family.

It is isolating for an only child at home to be homeschooled in a town where the school is the center of the community and in a neighborhood with no other kids. All of his gifted friends are in public school and busy with after school activities so he doesn't see them very much during the school year.

We really had no choice but to homeschool. I was told by several people at the school, including the principal (a relative of mine) and a teacher who believed my son was probably highly gifted that it was my duty as a parent to homeschool my son because it was just a small town school and they hadn't seen anyone like him before and didn't know what to do with him. When I asked if he could at least play on the playground during school hours with the kids he knew from Kindergarten, they said no because of liability reasons. I was supposed to keep paying taxes to support the school that refused to even try to come up with a plan for an appropriate education. I found out that there was no law in our state requiring an appropriate education for twice exceptional kids and I was just supposed to accept it and this was hard for me.

One of the pediatricians he saw at a military base wrote "seems to be high IQ" in my son's medical records but none of the pediatricians he saw at the military base recommended OT or PT for the hypotonia until we demanded to be referred to a developmental pediatrician and an OT. He didn't get any OT until he was almost 10 and I didn't think one OT session every two weeks for three months was enough to really help my son, but that was all our insurance would pay for. The OT did give me suggestions and told us what to work on at home but I find it hard to make him do some of these things, especially since he also gets migraine headaches. Spinning on a tire swing is not something you want to do when you have a migraine.

My son and I both felt even more isolated when we didn't fit in with our local homeschool group.

So when my son and I see my dad also dealing with isolation as he takes care of my mother without ever taking breaks, even when he is sick, it does add to our sadness and feeling of not fitting in with our community and even our extended family. My son has learned a very hard lesson about people. Most people tend to avoid people who are not like them in some way, even family and church members, even so called homeschool "support" groups and it makes me sad.

The sadness and anxiety that I feel sometimes take away from the energy I need to help my son overcome issues that are a result of his dyspraxia and sensory issues. Luckily he learns very well on his own thanks to the internet and educational shows on the History, Science and National Geographic channels and lots of curiosity that I was once told that he needed to learn to stifle.

I think my son needs to know that there were other people in our family and elsewhere who were gifted and lived through difficulties and went on to become successful adults, but I think his dyspraxia has made it harder for him because nobody else in our family has it.

We would like to hear more success stories about twice exceptional people with dyspraxia who were able to work around the issues that my son deals with to become successful adults.

Hi parents, I'm new here. Glad I found it and found this thread. The very reason that I went online and searched for a gifted forum is exactly what this thread is talking about: I just can't talk about my kids with other parents. If they talk about their kids achievement at parties it's alright, if I mention my kids I can actually feel the uneasiness among other parents. And I don't brag! I just reported facts like what activities they were doing. So I just don't talk about my kids anymore. And on our local parenting forum (our town actually has very good schools and a well-educated population), any mention of "giftedness" by anyone would attract negative comments instantly. But how many people actually want to brag about their kids' giftedness? For me, I often only feel desperate and helpless when I look at my son's school situation, which was simply miserable last year and only a bit better this year. But of course I can't even talk about my frustration and my son's frustrations with anyone because that could also be taken as bragging. Then on the other hand anyone can talk about how good his/her kids are at basketball or tennis without getting looks.

Hi Lori,

Yeah, the dyspraxia is difficult- at least during childhood. We ended up working around it in homeschooling but people can be so cruel. I remember a swimming carnival for the Scouts. My son and I only went because I was a Leader (Joeys). My son could not swim and it was a 50m pool. My son dog-paddled the entire length and considering the asthma he suffered from, severe dyspraxia etc was a huge effort and I was touched by his dogged determination to do his best.

I was standing by some parents and heard them say how 'unfair' it was to the other team members to have someone like that in the team. As a mother it broke my heart to hear that kind of discrimination.

We could not afford to belong to sporting groups and very few people understand dyspraxia. No one seems to want these kids involved in their team anyway and I didn't want him exposed to abuse because of his disability. Unlike your son (or myself for that matter) my son was very extroverted and very much knew his own mind. This made him darn near impossible when he was little but later on was an asset.

As for problems as an adult, I can't speak for other occupations of course, but in the programming industry handwriting can be pretty much non-existant.

We were very isolated as a family and it is only since my son has got his last job that he's really been 'included' socially in anything. I know this is one of the things he loves about his job.

As for me, I'm still waiting for inclusion! I look back over 18 years to when I was near my son's age and what we have lived through and wonder what it will take for this society to value my input. It is not a pleasant place to be and I would not wish it on anyone. So yes, I understand your isolation.

For a few years I was really frustrated with not being able to adequately express the position I was in to people who had not been through it themselves. But in validating myself as an individual (as I decided to do recently) I am finding the words now pouring out of me and I'm able to express myself much more clearly. I am yet to see whether this will actually lead to any lessening of my social and economic isolation although this thread is certainly a good thing!

Hi Playandlearn,

It is the kind of hostility you are experiencing that sees parents of gifted kids come together for support. Every parent has a right to the occasional brag, it is normal for mothers! There would be something wrong with us if we didn't feel proud of our kids. It is a pity these other parents don't have the insight to understand that. They probably think it is like bragging about how much money you have in the bank. It isn't, it is just the same maternal bragging they do but about what our children are doing. It is just that what our children are doing is different. It doesn't mean their children's exploits are any less wonderful. Praise is free after all, and only limited by our generosity of spirit.

Welcome! You have come to the right place. You will find much more understanding here I am sure. However, I would also encourage you to find some people in real life you can share things with as well. I don't have many, but a few that I know I can say things to that they aren't going to give me any uncomfortable looks. I do at times resent the fact that I can't talk about my kids like others can, but I've become more proactive in finding people I can share things with either on-line or in day to day interactions. I do want to share the heartaches of not knowing what to do, and school struggles...but I also do want to share how amazing he is at times because I am proud of him and who he is (whether I want to say I am proud he shared with his sister, or I am proud of him for his ability to do math problems...either way I am proud and want to share). I held back long enough.

Hi, thanks. I really hope to get useful info. and get a sense of community here. I do want to have someone locally that I can talk to, but so far not much luck yet.

Our situation is tricky because we are in a very good school district, there are lots of smart kids, and kids at the public school that my DS8 goes to are, on average, way above grade level. In fact the curriculum and pace at his school is pretty much the same as the private, gifted school in town. Therefore, the school district doesn't offer a separate, gifted program based on the rationale that too many kids would qualify for the program. But my DS8 still stands out, he is still bored at school, especially in math. Last year was horrible for him, this year the 3rd grade teacher is more understanding and willing to give him extra challenge so for the first time since K he now thinks that maybe math is worthwhile. Now my goal is to try to make this situaion last, I'm still looking for options, and I'm sure this forum will be a big help!