Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments School update and asking for opinions

Okay, so a recap: Pud (7) started at a private school in August, skipping 2nd grade and going into 3rd. We had a very bad 1st grade year at the public school. This new school is expensive and he only goes M-TH, 9 - 11:30. They do history, science, math, reading, and Language Arts. No recess, PE, art, music. There are 4 kids in his class.

Problem is that he is not challenged. I talked to the principal and he seemed unconcerned. He told me that "all our kids are accelerated" meaning that all of them scored at least 70th percentile on the ITBS. Pud scored 97th percentile straight out of 1st grade. The principal also told me that they have "so much material to get through in so little time" and they couldn't really make accomodations. I wanted to scream, "faster, faster", but I was nice and not confrontational. The principal struck me as totally indifferent. Pud says he's only seen the man 2 times this year.

I'm making an appointment with the school director, who is the one I talked to this summer when trying to decide what to do. I'm not sure what to ask of her. She had recommended that he skip into 4th grade academically; so I'm assuming (you know what that means!) that is what she'll recommend at this point. We think he's too immature to skip to 4th. There are some things in the 3rd curriculum that he hasn't mastered yet, like fractions and decimals (I'm assuming that's 3rd grade). But, at home he is doing simple algebraic equations and converting Farenheit to Celsius. He also just finished reading "The Hobbit".

It seems that with only 4 kids in the class, it would be easy to differentiate. He has 4 teachers - one for each subject (reading and LA together) - and each subject is only 30 minutes. The math teacher told me to stop doing math with him at home after he told her that "0 - 5 = -5" is in the (0,5) math fact family. But I'm told that with only 30 minutes for each subject and no breaks between them, there's not much the teacher can do. Pud told me that history basically means the teacher reading the textbook to them. Gaack!

He says he likes the school but not a lot. His behavior at home has been pretty bad but he seems to be okay other places. The principal told me that the teachers report that he dominates the class and "blurts out answers before the others have a chance to think". The homework is painful for me to watch - it's not that much but it takes him forever to do. He says it's because it is boring.

Bottom Line: I know something needs to change but I don't know what to ask them to do. DH continues to be adamantly opposed to homeschooling. I am going on Thursday to check out another private school that only goes to 5th grade to see if they can pull curriculum to challenge him until he is a 5th grader by age. Maybe then he'll be ready to skip into 7th grade at the public school. But, I'm trying not to think too much about the future, except that I'd like to limit the number of times he has to change schools.

What do I ask them to do? They seem reluctant to do anything. Another girl in his class is bored and not challenged and will be leaving soon. He and she have become friends and we carpool. She'll go back to public school. Putting Pud back in public school presents all kinds of problems, including, but not limited to, the skip to third.

The teachers don't have experience with gifted kids and don't seeem to "get" it. I thought maybe the Reading teacher would when he read "The Hobbit" or maybe the math teacher after the negative number fact. Two of them have no teaching experience whatsoever! And, they moved the library to the high school building!

Sorry this got so long. I am, as always, it seems, frustrated.

Hi squirt - i'm so sorry things aren't going well. Sending e-hugs. From your description, it sounds like this school is not a good fit for Pud. If none of the teachers have any experience with gifted kids, and they are so "busy" with only a handful of students, it doesn't sound like they will be capable of making the necessary adjustments so Pud can learn new things. If the same teachers would be teaching 4th, I can't see how that would help much either. The principal doesn't seem to be in your corner either.

You may have mentioned this is another post, but why is DH so opposed to homeschooling? It seems that with Pud's school being only part-time, you are really homeschooling him already anyway. Since this school is so expensive and not working out, think of what wonderful things you could do at home with even a portion of the money you're spending there. I think there was a thread awhile back to help convince someone else's DH about the benefits of homeschool. I'll try to find it.

I know that this doesn't really help you - just wanted to lend my e-support and give a few thoughts based on your post.

Oh, Squirt! I totally agree with everything SPG says. Hugs, school not working, homeschooling already, etc. I know you've talked about your DH and his objections to HSing before, but I don't recall details.

Is your DH the only obstacle to HSing? If he were on board, would you be HSing right now?

I really, REALLY think that if you want to HS and you think it is the best option for your son, then you need to express that to your DH and actively campaign to change his mind. He needs to face the fact that your son has special needs, and you are going to have to do *something* special for him. If you've tried private schools and public schools, and they aren't going to work for your particular child, then what's left? I think you owe it to your DS to explore homeschooling.

What are your DH's concerns about HSing? Has he enumerated them clearly for you? If not, require that of him. Some vague refusal isn't okay. You might even ask him to put it in writing for you so he has time to make his best case. You need to take this up a notch. It's time to get serious.

What type of evidence might your DH respond best to? Facts and figures, success stories, seeing for himself that HSers don't have to be wackos? Frame your case in the way that he'll best respond to, but MAKE THE CASE and MAKE IT STRONGLY.

Also note that if it doesn't work out, it doesn't have to be permanent. HSing is a highly reversible choice.

In the meantime, start integrating HSing into your lives. Subscribe to "Secular Homeschooling" magazine: http://www.secular-homeschooling.com/index.html . Join a HSing group and start attending events and getting together with members on playdates. Etc. It's a lot easier to accept something that's outside the norm if you make it part of your norm.

Seriously, if you think this is the right thing for your child, then your DH needs to get off the tracks and on the train!

Oh - and one more thing about homeschooling. I was one of those people who thought that homeschoolers were all just people on the way outside fringes of mainstream. Then I started learning about homeschooling related to HG kids, and I saw the light. What really clinched it for DH and me was meeting with the HG gifted psychologist, who basically told us that we would be homeschooling for at least part of DS's education, because there would be times when the educational system wouldn't work for how he learns. She also said that lots of HG kids can weave their way back into the system by high school, where there are AP and other advanced class choices. She also mentioned thinking about a sabbatical abroad for one or more of the middle school years, for additional learning opportunities. (DH really took to this idea!)

We are going to try the whole school thing first, starting next year, but it's just a relief to know that we can homeschool if we need to. And another positive, since we're in MN, we can do partial homeschooling if we want. Then DS could go to school with agemates for fun stuff and anything that works for him academically, but learn at home or with a tutor for advanced work.

I could not find the thread where someone was trying to convince DH to homeschool. sorry.

Squirt,
I sympathize. I would say we are in a similar sitation with DD and DS. They are at a private school, larger than yours, but the school doesn't differentiate until 6th grade. So DD is in advanced classes, but it's still not enough.

DH and I have decided to take matters into our own hands in a way. DD is taking EPGY math again this year, and is currently almost 2 years ahead of her advanced math class. So, paradoxically, she's now more bored than before (in fact, the math teacher asked whether she wanted to teach the class after he saw what she can do).

There are many positives about the school. The fine arts program is unparalleled, and that's been an invaluable asset. We are doing the best we can, and waiting until late middle school/early high school, when it looks like students can do AP classes as early as freshman or soph year.

It sounds like this school is really a poor match for DS. I am with Kriston with so little time in school he is home so much that you can as well go for official homeschooling.

We did the other way around and do academics at home and he goes to a private school (mixed ages) for 2 afternoons to have fun - lunch, recess, music, crafts, ... No academics involved. That way he gets to play with other kids on regular basis, we get break from each other and I don't have to worry about academic mismatch.

Thanks, all. I wish we could do partial homeschooling but it's not allowed in Texas. I also wish, LMom, that I could find something like you've got for the fun stuff.

I'm not sure why DH is so opposed to HSing. Part of it is that Pud's behavior has been bad and it stresses me out so much. He's tired of coming home and finding one of us screaming at the other (I know, I shouldn't scream). I'll have to talk to him about it again. If I could find a good school fit, I'd prefer that to HS, to be honest, because I need my time. I think, though, that it's probably the only way to go for a while. I just haven't figured out how to make it work.

I don't know what would convince him. It might just take me doing it and seeing how it works. I need to have my ducks in a row, though, before I just yank Pud out of school.

I'm rambling and it's late so I'll end. I just wanted to thank you for responding and caring. I've got a lot of thinking to do and then I just need to make a decision.

Hope you get a good night's rest! That does help! I've been investigating homeschooling for about a year and feel ready to do it. Honestly, I could have done it about 3 months in.

Both girls are adamant about wanting to attend school and did last year as well. It is comforting to know that I could yank them at the drop of a dime if need be.

I guess I'm saying that you don't have to decide to HS tomorrow in order to start looking into it and preparing, just in case.

Well, nobody said this was going to be easy! I agree wholeheartedly with CFK that it would be a very difficult decision to send your child into high school at 10 or 11.

I didn't make myself clear as to what the psychologist told us. She told us a variety of school choices, including homeschooling and tutors, would likely be necessary. She recommended that we could try to weave our child back in to high school when he was close to high school age - the years up to then could be filled with the other options - the best of which would be finding a school willing and able to accommodate. She recommended some sort of study abroad/sabbatical for the family during DS's middle school years for the very reason that he would be too young for high school (and since by middle school he'd be done with the curriculum). She was shooting for college at just a year early for us, if possible. She also said we'd probably have to move if we wanted DS to have decent school choices.

So, what we end up doing remains to be seen. This is just particular advice to us based on family personalities and the tester's experience with HG kids and what has worked for some. The point, I guess, is that if you have an HG kid, you're in for a challenge, emotionally and financially.

Well, many people recommend "deschooling" when a child is removed from a bad school situation for homeschooling. The idea is to let them get over it for a while without pressure to learn. That might be your best bet in this case if you do decide to homeschool. It would give him time to recover and it would give you time to prepare. Your DH might hate it, but I think it might be the right move. Just be sure to limit TV and videogames. You want Pud to get bored with doing nothing and become eager to learn again.

The really helpful question I asked myself when we removed DS7 from school last year for "emergency homeschooling" was this: am I doing worse than the school was doing? As long as the answer was no, then I figured it was working okay. Setting the bar low like that gave me room to make the inevitable mistakes and not feel like a failure for my child. He was still better off than he had been in that lousy school situation, and we could adapt easily when something wasn't working. I feel a lot more confident this year than I did last year. It gets easier as you gain experience.

Just know that you don't have to have all the answers right away. You don't have to provide the perfect education for your child from Day 1. It will be a learning experience for you, too, and you will adapt. The real question is "Can I do better than the school is doing with him?" If the answer is yes, then you're moving in the right direction.

And BTW, DS7 and I get along MUCH better than we did when he was in a bad-fit classroom. He's happier, and that makes him a lot easier to get along with.

That's not to say that I never yell at him, of course. But he's not unhappy anymore, so he's a lot easier to work with. He thinks of us as a team now--as do I--and we necessarily get along better as a result. Many homeschoolers find this to be true.

And finally, as for needing your time, I SOOOOO identify! I'm an introvert who gets really unpleasant without time alone. Getting a sitter to help out so you can get some time away is really helpful, especially that first year of HSing. You do need time to yourself, and you could spend some of that money you're saving on the expensive school for babysitting, and still come out ahead financially. It was what got me through it last year. This year, I'm doing fine without a sitter because the kids are older and more used to the system, so they give me a little more space than they used to.

College students or older homeschoolers are a good choice for sitters. They're free during the day, have flexible schedules, and don't charge too much.

It sounds like you and Pud are both stressed out. Something needs to change. If you can find a better school fit, then great! A good school fit is a wonderful thing. But if you think HSing is the answer for now, then you can make it work. And you do NOT have to lose your mind in the process. Honest!

CFK -I didn't take it personally - my kid isn't even in school yet! Except i just realized my post omitted the very important concern you pointed out and thus the clarification of what was recommended to us.

That reminds me - Miraca Gross's book does specifically look at the education of several HG kids and might be a useful read for anyone looking at the variety of options, and which worked/didn't work for these kids. The latest edition is worth it for the updates on where these kids are now. Hopefully you can get it from a library - little pricey on amazon! nice resource.

http://www.amazon.com/Exceptionally-Gifted-Children-Miraca-Gross/dp/0415314917

Hi Squirt! You've brought me back to posting. You know I've been hiding in my lurking shell but I couldn't let your post go without chiming in.

I've told you this before but I must say it again: I am so very sorry about how the school is handling Pud. I hear your disappointment and frustration. Hugs are coming your way from me.

You've mentioned in the past some of your reservations about the University Model Schools in your area, and I have those same concerns too. But would that be an option for some of the more elective-type classes (art, music, etc.) and then you could do more substantive work at home? For instance, my main concern about our local UMS school is the way they teach science (strict creationism) but I may be willing to let DD go for a few other classes. Maybe just sending Pud for art or music or PE would give the two of you enough space during the week and provide him with some of the things your DH wants him to have. Those classes probably wouldn't start as early in the morning so you'd no longer have those battles at the crack of dawn. I know that you have probably thought about this, but it may have been back before your experience with the school this year. As you know, I'm one step closer to homeschooling every day, and it's funny how that changes my perspective about "options" that I may have dismissed last spring.

Kriston's comments about behavior improving sound right on, and I think you've seen that a bit too (fall break). Don't discount the improvements as mere coincidence; I'll bet it's related to school.

I feel your pain, sister-friend, and Pud's too. I hope the other school that you are visiting today can offer Pud something, or perhaps at least help you make up your mind that for right now, there's not a school situation that's going to give him what he needs.

Argh! I'm so sorry.

Any "teacher" who tells you to hold your child back is displaying an incredible level of ignorance and callousness, not to mention that she seems to want to stunt his academic growth to make her life easier. Sorry, but with 4 kids in the class, they should all be getting individual attention (NOT differentiation).

You may want to write a letter to whoever's in charge (the director?) asking if holding children back from their potential is official policy, and if so, why? If your DS is "blurting out the answers" perhaps it's because he isn't challenged and is trying to keep occupied by seeing how quickly he can come up with the answer. You could always ask the director for ideas on fixing the problem.

If the school is so small, why do they seem to be going out of their way to drive students out?

Last year when my DS got a big homework sheet full of 5+7 type problems, I just did it for him. We agreed that he would do maths with me and I would take care of his maths homework. I decided that doing busy work was pointless and I didn't want him to waste his time. He was getting zero benefit from it anyway (unlike, say, when he has to clean his room or do the dishes).

Val

I forgot to mention something earlier, Squirt. I know that you don't want to go back to public school, but if you ever decide to go back, I found something that might be helpful.

Texas law states that options for gifted students "must include . . . opportunities to accelerate in areas of strength." This is in 19 Texas Administrative Code sec. 89.3. We're using it to ask for some changes for DD6. We'll see where it gets us.