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    #27452 10/06/08 03:42 PM
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    Somewhere, some time ago, someone asked about the correlation of giftedness and sensory integration problems. I posted that there was no correlation to sensory integration disorders but that there was evidence that gifted kids have more tactile defensiveness. This was from some information I got from a researcher named Rich Carrasco who had done a small study testing gifted kids with the SIPT assessment.

    I just today found this summary of research/literature review:
    http://www.spdfoundation.net/gifted.html
    (scroll down to the "our library" link to access the PDF file - I couldn't get the link to that to copy)

    Interesting to know that someone in OT is looking at this issue. But also interesting that the author basically said what I said - there is much confusion between OEs and SPD!

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    Neat, wow, they have tons of info available. Thanks doodlebug.

    Would you guess that OE's might be easier to self-regulate with practice or therapy than SPD's?

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    I found this site a while ago while researching SPD and giftedness and the whole page pretty much summed up my DS5 exactly to a T. I have run into more parents of SPD kids who have all shared that their child is also very gifted. I am also learning that dyspraxia seems to almost go hand in hand with SPD and gifted children - another trait my son has. It has made life very interesting to say the least and I am concerned about how my little guy is getting along. He has been getting OT for his SPD for almost 3 years now and I have really yet to see a huge impact/improvement.

    Belle #27474 10/07/08 07:18 AM
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    Originally Posted by Belle
    He has been getting OT for his SPD for almost 3 years now and I have really yet to see a huge impact/improvement.

    Belle: This is cause for concern. I would suggest that you either seek another OT or revisit the issue to determine what exactly is going on. I am very concerned that you haven't seen changes big enough to warrant attention. I cannot imagine treating a child for 3 years and not seeing an impact that is both notable and beneficial in terms of improved task performance and life satisfaction. Something is not right.

    Feel free to PM me if you wish to talk off list.

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    Originally Posted by incogneato
    Neat, wow, they have tons of info available. Thanks doodlebug.

    Would you guess that OE's might be easier to self-regulate with practice or therapy than SPD's?

    I think that sensory tools and a sensory based approach helps with processing issues that interfere with your life, whether you see them as OEs or SPD. I've mentioned this reference before but it's worth mentioning again:

    http://www.amazon.com/Living-Sensat...mp;s=books&qid=1223390914&sr=1-1

    This is Living Sensationally: Understanding Your Senses by Winnie Dunn, PhD. Dr. Dunn created the Sensory Profile assessments and believes that sensory processing is a continuum of normal and should only be considered disordered when the processing interferes with daily performance. What is disordered for one person may not be for another, even though they process sensory information in a similar manner. This is a great book for just understanding how sensory processing is a normal process that every human being experiences and to better understand patterns of sensory processing and how they impact on our lives. Easy read, too!

    Belle #27477 10/07/08 08:23 AM
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    My son really liked his OT and he says he wishes he could go back, but our insurance only paid for a total of six sessions--one session every two weeks. Sensory integration therapy is not covered under our insurance plan, but the OT said was she was doing was sensory integration therapy and she showed me what we needed to work on at home.

    At home I had a hard time getting him to do some of the things she suggested. I worried that he wasn't going to make those new neural pathways if he didn't do everything just right and do it every day like the doctor said we needed to do. Because of my extreme anxiety over other issues, I sometimes was not as patient with him as I should have been. He started asking me if I even liked him again.

    The one thing I really wanted help with was getting him to the point where he could learn to swim and the only suggestion I got from the doctor and the OT was to get in the pool with him. His fear of putting his face in the water in the swimming pool was holding him back. He could do this in the bathtub, but not in the pool. So instead of fighting our insurance company, I am spending what I spent on co-pays for OT for a family membership at the YMCA. They don't offer private lessons and I told them about the instructor who called my son a wuss during group swimming lessons a few years ago, but they don't have any suggestions for how I can get him swimming, so I guess we will have to do this on our own. He wants to conquer this fear. He was almost there several months ago but the two week swimming lesson was almost over by the time he got his face in the water.

    If we could have success with just this one thing I thing we could build on it.

    He does like using all the different kinds of weight equipment at the YMCA, so if nothing else he can work on strength and endurance and I think when he does any kind of physical exercise it helps.

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    Originally Posted by Lori H.
    My son really liked his OT and he says he wishes he could go back, but our insurance only paid for a total of six sessions--one session every two weeks. Sensory integration therapy is not covered under our insurance plan, but the OT said was she was doing was sensory integration therapy and she showed me what we needed to work on at home.

    At home I had a hard time getting him to do some of the things she suggested. I worried that he wasn't going to make those new neural pathways if he didn't do everything just right and do it every day like the doctor said we needed to do. Because of my extreme anxiety over other issues, I sometimes was not as patient with him as I should have been. He started asking me if I even liked him again.

    The one thing I really wanted help with was getting him to the point where he could learn to swim and the only suggestion I got from the doctor and the OT was to get in the pool with him. His fear of putting his face in the water in the swimming pool was holding him back. He could do this in the bathtub, but not in the pool. So instead of fighting our insurance company, I am spending what I spent on co-pays for OT for a family membership at the YMCA. They don't offer private lessons and I told them about the instructor who called my son a wuss during group swimming lessons a few years ago, but they don't have any suggestions for how I can get him swimming, so I guess we will have to do this on our own. He wants to conquer this fear. He was almost there several months ago but the two week swimming lesson was almost over by the time he got his face in the water.

    If we could have success with just this one thing I thing we could build on it.

    He does like using all the different kinds of weight equipment at the YMCA, so if nothing else he can work on strength and endurance and I think when he does any kind of physical exercise it helps.


    Lori:
    The fear of putting his face in the water doesn't strike me as an SPD type of issue, especially if he does it at home in the bathtub. I don't believe that anything done in the OT clinic is going to help him with this issue. Except perhaps if the OT is able to help him develop more self confidence in general and more willingness to approach challenges.

    I would think that just having him in swimming class on a regular basis or even just a regular opportunity to be in the pool (like family trips for swimming every week) with lots of time to enjoy the pool, have fun and develop skills in the water *without* putting his face in might eventually lead to him being intrinsically motivated to try his face in the water. In SI based therapy the key to success is having the child *intrinsically motivated* for mastering the task. That is what changes neural pathways and allows the child to create an adaptive respose (ie: do the right movement or sequence, etc). If the child is not intrinsically motivated then the "magic" of SI based treatment just doesn't occur. In good SI based therapy the child sets the pace, the therapist puts opportunities in place and then structures the opportunities to build success for the child. And, if done right, the child is convinced he did it all by himself! Then, voila! you have a child who is empowered to do more!

    I find the approach works in most everything when working with children. Especially GT kids like mine!

    Sounds like for the swimming thing he just needs more time and opportunities for success. He'll do it someday, I'm sure!

    Last edited by doodlebug; 10/07/08 10:19 AM.
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    I assume that my DS had a frightening experience during a YMCA swimming lesson when he was 3. He has never spoken of it and the teachers never saw what happened. But one day he just refused to go in the water and sat on the side of the pool. His fear prevented him from swimming for several years.

    When DS was about 8, we found a college student who gave private swim lessons in her parent's pool over the summer. She was working on her PE teaching degree with special ed endorsement and she was a Godsend for DS. She was amazingly patient. Her prices were quite reasonable. After 3 summers of lessons DS is now a competent swimmer with little water anxiety.

    From watching DS, I do think there were sensory issues involved. It was the feel of water in his nose that really freaked him out. When he did get his face in the water, he would take about 5 minutes at the side of the pool, meticulously clearing our each nostril. Once he felt better, he would have a minute of lesson and another 5 of clearing out. But each lesson got a bit better until now he is diving of the diving board and swimming under water the length of the pool.

    As my Spanish speaking friends say, "Poco a poco." little by little.

    acs #27494 10/07/08 10:55 AM
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    Originally Posted by acs
    I assume that my DS had a frightening experience during a YMCA swimming lesson when he was 3. He has never spoken of it and the teachers never saw what happened. But one day he just refused to go in the water and sat on the side of the pool. His fear prevented him from swimming for several years.

    When DS was about 8, we found a college student who gave private swim lessons in her parent's pool over the summer. She was working on her PE teaching degree with special ed endorsement and she was a Godsend for DS. She was amazingly patient. Her prices were quite reasonable. After 3 summers of lessons DS is now a competent swimmer with little water anxiety.

    From watching DS, I do think there were sensory issues involved. It was the feel of water in his nose that really freaked him out. When he did get his face in the water, he would take about 5 minutes at the side of the pool, meticulously clearing our each nostril. Once he felt better, he would have a minute of lesson and another 5 of clearing out. But each lesson got a bit better until now he is diving of the diving board and swimming under water the length of the pool.

    As my Spanish speaking friends say, "Poco a poco." little by little.

    This is a great story and I love how your patience and that of the instructor paid off!

    But I have to disagree that this is a "sensory issue." I would bet that he had an experience where he inhaled water through his nose or somehow experienced that feeling of water in his nose that perhaps freaked him out and created the fear or anxiety response. This is actually a very logical conclusion for a 3 year old to make. The level of fear response might not have been logical, but the initial experience and perception certainly make sense - if that's what happended.

    This is NOT an example of a sensory processing disorder, though. This is an example of a situational sensory experience that created an inappropriate response. He definitely had a need to keep his nose clear of water, but I don't think it was related to a sensory processing disorder. Did he also react this way when he had a runny nose? Did he also have problems blowing his nose? Was he overly sensitive to a bloody nose? See what I'm getting at? He may very well have a SPD but this example, standing alone, does not warrant a label of SPD. Now, if he couldn't tolerate the feeling of water in his nose and also had other examples of

    I think it is a problem when we start to attribute any atypical responses related to sensory experiences to a "disorder" or "sensory issue". The reality is that we all have "sensory issues." If someone doesn't like the sensation of water in their nose when swimming they can use a nose plug. It doesn't necessarily constitute a disorder. Just a difference.

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    Hi Debbie,

    I totally defer to your expertise on this and certainly on the use of terminology. You are right; I would never call it a "disorder" because besides being really annoying, it didn't limit his activity. I was thinking that by using the word "issue" I was taking it out of the realm of "disorder" but allowing there to be a small senory componant in a non-diagnosing non-technical way. Does "issue" have a technical meaning in this area?

    When I watched the kids in the lessons before and after him quickly blow the water out of their nose and get back to swimming while DS spent over half his lesson clearing his nose (while I kept thinking what a waste to be paying the teacher to watch DS blow his nose and leave these little pools of nose water one the pool edge!), I did see that there was "something different" about him, whatever you want to call it.

    I would probably say that DS is very sensitive to any fluids in his nose and over reacts to nosebleeds and colds. But I still wouldn't call it a disorder. He is definitely OE and it is probably that combined with whatever bad experience he had.

    Last edited by acs; 10/07/08 11:17 AM.
    acs #27498 10/07/08 11:48 AM
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    Overexcitabilities and SPD still confuse me and I feel like I should have this all figured out by now.

    I know that in swimming lessons the other kids don't mind jumping in the pool and having water splashed in their faces and they don't get tired as fast and they don't complain that the water is too cold and have to slowly work their way in. It just seems like he has to work through a lot more issues than other kids and now he is at an age where he finds it embarrassing to take lessons with 6 year olds. He says he thinks that he could teach himself if given the time to adjust to the water and play around but when I take him to the pool, he spends all of his time watching much younger kids do what he can't, and he is embarrassed to try to do anything around other kids.

    I would love to find a college student to work with him but I don't know any and I don't think just anybody would be able to teach him. How do I find the right person?




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    Oh, crud. Obviously I misinterpreted your meaning, acs. Or perhaps over reacted to what you were saying, me being up on my soapbox and all. sorry. I took "issue" to mean disorder - which is just how I interpret or use that word.

    I agree with you about the OEs. My son is the same way as yours, often focusing on some sensory aspect of an activity or task and then not being able to participate fully or complete the thing. But I just see as part of who he is and something to be accepted and accommodated.

    Lori, have you tried a local college job board? The wording of your ad and the interview process should help identify the "right" person - you'll know when you find him or her. Do you have a local YMCA? Maybe private time with an instructor to build confidence and abilities? I don't think there's an easy answer to this situation. But if he is motivated to learn I'm sure you can problem solve a solution.


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    Originally Posted by doodlebug
    Oh, crud. Obviously I misinterpreted your meaning, acs. Or perhaps over reacted to what you were saying, me being up on my soapbox and all. sorry. I took "issue" to mean disorder - which is just how I interpret or use that word.
    No worries! I value your expertise and like many people on this board have benefitted incredibly by it. The real problem is that the terminology in the gray areas is really hard. Issue? Problem? Disorder? Oddity? Quirk? What do you call something when it is noticable, but not a disorder?

    When DS and I were at a homestay in Central America and he wouldn't eat any of their food except ice cream. I knew it was because of his OE's but my Spanish wasn't going to let me explain that concept clearly. All the women in the family were panicking because they wanted to find something for him to eat because they wanted to be good hosts and I wanted them to calm down and let him either go hungry, which wouldn't kill him, or even just let him eat just ice cream. And they wanted him to like their food. I told him he had a "problema" and told them that eating ice cream was OK. Then they wanted to know if he was getting treatment for his "problema." Gad zooks! It wasn't a disorder or a "problema", but it was a lot of excitement!

    acs #27520 10/07/08 03:25 PM
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    I'm glad that I only have to explain some of DS4's quirks in English (like when he strips off his clothes in public because he gets drops of water on them). My DS has very strange peculiarites about when he'll get wet - bath/shower OK. Clothes getting wet, even just a drip - NOT OK. Swimming in Aruba, no problems, once we coaxed him in the pool and warm ocean. Swim at the cold northern MN lake - OK if it's 90 degrees out and he can go naked. Swimming at the YMCA - so far, he has refused to go back because they make the beginner swimmers wear float belts, which are itchy. I got a recommendation of one of the teachers who is willing to do private lessons in special circumstances (the person who recommended this instructor had a brother with Down's Syndrome, who got private lessons and this instructor was great and super patient.) The instructor called to tell me of a TLC class she teachers, maximum 4 students, and we're signed up for november. We'll have to see! Lori - maybe you could check at the Y to see if anyone has worked with special needs kids for swimming lessons? It's taken us 2 years to find this person - i have discovered that not all members of our Y have regular access to their emails, so going in and phone calls worked best. Good luck. (I'll keep you posted on how our swimming lessons go.)

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    ACS, your story made me smile even though I'm sure it was quite a difficulty at the time. I don't know, maybe it was your wording, but I imagined your whole family sitting together over a holiday dinner laughing at the story while you related it too your grandkids some day..... smile


    Yes, I hear the Y is supposed to be really good with these situations........if you can find the right person and the right y. smile

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    'Neato,you're right, it was funny, even at the time. There was a moment on the third day or so when he was about to take a bite of rice that had green bits (spices) in it, which would have been very brave of him. He was hesitating, but was really about to do it. Then one of the ladies saw his hesitation and said helpfully, "Puede comer helado." He looked up from his rice and said, "Si, helado, por favor." That was hilarious.

    Well, at least he learned some Spanish.

    The hard part is that I never learned to be comfortable with the judgment DS and I seem to get from other parents. So when they question me, I take it as criticism. Well, my son eats meat, why doesn't yours? If you just cut it up small enough... Why do you let him get away with .... I am just too thin-skinned.

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    Wow, MON, it's too bad you aren't available for Lori's son!

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    If I could find someone like you to teach him, I think he could do it.


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    Only skimmed a few of these, but had to say that these goggles changed everything for DS when he was learning to swim (they also come in adult sizes and tinted/non-tinted). http://www.aquasphereswim.com/us/products/seal_kid_clr_transblu.html

    They fit on the face, not in the eye sockets, so they're more comfortable, and even more importantly, they have quick release tabs for on/off so they don't pull hair, aren't too tight, etc. Once he had these, underwater was no problem. He now will swim without goggles, but this was a big first step in swim lessons.

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    Cool! thanks, questions. So far my DS4 doesn't mind the other goggles, but he definitely won't swim without goggles. I'll keep these in mind in case we have any troubles.

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    The problem we have found is that not many OT's are Sensory Based OT's. We worked with a private OT for about 2 years and then finally said enough - the last handful of sessions the OT had resorted to physically holding down my then 4 year old in a chair and forced him to complete worksheets to work on fine motor skills with crayons. Yes, he did a handful of sensory things with him but none of the sessions seemed to be catered to his specific needs - it was like a one therapy fits all thing - after we got more educated and more information started to come out about SPD, we quickly left that OT. We have been getting school based OT since he was 3 - so that is going on 3 years for that - but they honestly don't do much of anything in his 30 minute session and are not allowed to focus on his SPD just his handwriting....we have been searching non-stop to find a Sensory based OT or even one who is aware of SPD and there are none in our community - the closest is an hour away and they are not on our insurance plan..so we can't afford the drive over or to be able to pay full price fees...so we are kind of stuck trying to make due the best we can. So it is sad to say that after 3 years we haven't seen much progress. We started when he was 3 and he will be 6 in Jan. I know that if we could find the correct OT we would be golden!

    Belle #27737 10/09/08 01:13 PM
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    Oh, Belle, I am so sorry to hear that. We've had huge luck with both our private OT and the OT in the public school last year (DS loved the "kid-crusher!"). Wish I could help.

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    I have some questions regarding SDP and OEs and phobias.

    My oldest son has never been Rxed SPD, but has a lot of the traits. I thought that they were just OEs, like sensitivity to sound (ever since he was a baby), sensitivity to some things--some slimey things, but he will help me bake bread now. ... so I don't know. I wish I could think of more SPD examples, but they're failing me now.

    He is Mr. OEs... everything is very dramatic with him. But he has this phobia of dummies, mannequins. He begs us to never take him to disneyland, and if he even just sees a picture of the mannequins at the pool, for instance, you know, the cpr mannequins? He looks terrified and begins to cry.

    I feel so badly for him.... and don't know what to do. It is really limiting and the anxiety is too much for both of us now.

    Does anyone know if any of this stuff is related? Has anyone helped their child with phobias?

    Help!


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    My 10 year old son has all of the overexcitabilities and has some sensory issues and phobias that he did not want to talk to a doctor about and he asked me not to mention it to the doctor because he was embarrassed about them, and having anxiety and a few phobias myself that I was embarrassed to tell anyone about, I kept his secret. But not getting help for my phobias and anxiety in addition to a lack of sleep caused me to have health problems, so it is time to deal with it. I will try to get an appointment as soon as possible for my son and we will talk about it together with the doctor and see what he says about it.

    My son, like me, could hide the phobias in public but I am finding that hiding it and not getting help is not healthy.

    Our insurance paid for six sessions of occupational therapy which the OT said was really sensory integration therapy but she had to call it something else so our insurance would pay for it. She said she had worked with other "sensory kids who were very bright and she nicknamed my son Mr. Drama. He wants to go back for OT. He recently told me that he felt it helped him and he wanted to know if we could just pay for the therapy ourselves if the insurance wouldnt. There was no way we could afford it last year.





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    Hi Starman.
    My son doesn't have SPD but does have extreme sensitivities and OEs. I'm also an SI trained OT, so I've checked him out every which way back when I was sure there was something "wrong" with him.

    Sensory processing, IMO and those of some current theorists in the field, should be looked at as a continuum. EVERYONE processes sensory information and EVERYONE has problem areas in terms of sensory processing. It's more a question of degree and whether the level or sensitivities or poor registration, etc are interferring with other stuff.

    My son has a very vivid visual imagination. He is easily frightened, often fearful of new stuff or strange images, has anxiety issues and is generally very sensitive. I think it is all tied in to the giftedness. When a psychologist spoke to us about his anxiety and keeping an eye on it I asked "isn't it all just part of being gifted?" She responded that it may be but that wasn't the point. No matter what causes the anxiety it needs to be addressed if it is causing disruptions in development or daily activities.

    So, my suggestion is to focus on the phobias or anxiety or sensory experiences that are most disruptive for him and just find an approach that works to help decrease those issues. For our son, it helped to work with the school social worker about some imagery - he liked using the visual imagery of a blackboard and him erasing the pictures that "haunted" him. He also does well with distraction and sort of replacing the "bad thoughts" as he calls them with happy ones. We also have found that lots of advanced preparation help. Although over time we have discovered what is the "just right" amount of advanced preparation - because too much info too far ahead of the situation can actually INCREASE his anxiety as he obsesses over it!

    My opinion, it's typical of kids like ours. It's all part of the package and is worse for some kids. My son is now almost 8 years old and seems to be getting better in all these areas. So I do think that there is some maturation that helps - as that asynchrony evens out.
    Hopefully that will be true for your guy, too. But in the meantime I wuold try some different approaches to help ease his stress and just deal with the phobias, regardless of the cause of them.

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    For my son, the issue comes from having too much knowledge. He understands the risks involved in things like swimming. You can breathe underwater, if you fall you will drown etc. He is like that about everything. He watched other kids go down the slide on the playground for two days before he would try it, weighing the risks. I have talked to him about fear keeping him from amazing opportunities and was informed that he is "not scared, just cautious". He goes through a whole process of observation before trying anything new. ND kids don't stop to consider what might happen, ours do.


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    My older son has some issues that I would call OEs and some that are SPDs and it's very hard to differentiate at times. I think part of it is that it is a continuum like another poster said. For instance, he has always hated to get anything on his hands. I would consider this an SPD. He hates to clean pumpkins, he hates to have mud on them, he hates anything on his hands and he will wash them off immediately. OTOH, he sometimes is very sensitive to smell, however, most of the time smells don't bother him too much, they flare up more when he's stressed. That seems more like an OE.

    The problem is that the mix of these make for a kid who acts SPDish. And the sensory issues do sometimes get in the way of his being able to interact appropriately with other people, at which point he needs SPD therapy whether or not he has SPD, just to learn the coping strategies.

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    Originally Posted by doodlebug
    Hi Starman.
    My son doesn't have SPD but does have extreme sensitivities and OEs. I'm also an SI trained OT, so I've checked him out every which way back when I was sure there was something "wrong" with him.

    Sensory processing, IMO and those of some current theorists in the field, should be looked at as a continuum. EVERYONE processes sensory information and EVERYONE has problem areas in terms of sensory processing. It's more a question of degree and whether the level or sensitivities or poor registration, etc are interferring with other stuff.

    My son has a very vivid visual imagination. He is easily frightened, often fearful of new stuff or strange images, has anxiety issues and is generally very sensitive. I think it is all tied in to the giftedness. When a psychologist spoke to us about his anxiety and keeping an eye on it I asked "isn't it all just part of being gifted?" She responded that it may be but that wasn't the point. No matter what causes the anxiety it needs to be addressed if it is causing disruptions in development or daily activities.

    So, my suggestion is to focus on the phobias or anxiety or sensory experiences that are most disruptive for him and just find an approach that works to help decrease those issues. For our son, it helped to work with the school social worker about some imagery - he liked using the visual imagery of a blackboard and him erasing the pictures that "haunted" him. He also does well with distraction and sort of replacing the "bad thoughts" as he calls them with happy ones. We also have found that lots of advanced preparation help. Although over time we have discovered what is the "just right" amount of advanced preparation - because too much info too far ahead of the situation can actually INCREASE his anxiety as he obsesses over it!

    My opinion, it's typical of kids like ours. It's all part of the package and is worse for some kids. My son is now almost 8 years old and seems to be getting better in all these areas. So I do think that there is some maturation that helps - as that asynchrony evens out.
    Hopefully that will be true for your guy, too. But in the meantime I wuold try some different approaches to help ease his stress and just deal with the phobias, regardless of the cause of them.

    Thank you for your reply. I'm hoping to be able to help him manage the anxiety and phobias. We try to do mental imagery of him erasing the bad images, but he is really terrified by mannequins.
    But I think we need to get some help. I'm looking at a local university hospital that has a ped. clinic that deals with anxiety. Hopefully they can help us!

    It is good to hear your perspective... OEs are so interesting and mysterious... it is like part of our kids, but something else, too.


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    Originally Posted by Artana
    My older son has some issues that I would call OEs and some that are SPDs and it's very hard to differentiate at times. I think part of it is that it is a continuum like another poster said. For instance, he has always hated to get anything on his hands. I would consider this an SPD. He hates to clean pumpkins, he hates to have mud on them, he hates anything on his hands and he will wash them off immediately. OTOH, he sometimes is very sensitive to smell, however, most of the time smells don't bother him too much, they flare up more when he's stressed. That seems more like an OE.

    The problem is that the mix of these make for a kid who acts SPDish. And the sensory issues do sometimes get in the way of his being able to interact appropriately with other people, at which point he needs SPD therapy whether or not he has SPD, just to learn the coping strategies.

    I think it would be good to read up on some of the SPD therapy and see if anything works. Because this is my guy, too. I think it is really triggered by nerves and anxiety as you state.


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    Our son benifited greatly from his work with an OT trained in Sensory Processing. It was private half hours weekly for 6 months, and our insurance paid. At the same time, the school let him work with a small group in the OT/PT room twice a week. We saw a huge leap forward in his ability to try new things that are physical activities. He also was in a 'I know too much' position. For example - he loved jumping into the ball pit, even though previously he seemed very nervous jumping or balancing on even 1 foot high places. He said that it was because he 'KNEW' that the Ball Pit was safe. I think just being in the OT room with all the Mats was a little bit of heaven for him.

    In my mind, I imagine that lots and lots of practice is needed for things like handwriting, tummy time, jumping and dating. I've know people who were too 'mentally aware' to allow themselves to do much of these activites and had a difficult time catching up. I also believe that there are other things, like shoe tying, and multiplications facts that aren't harmed by a child waiting until they are ready. The kids just learns quickly when they get motivated.

    Any researchers out there looking for a project? I'd love to see if this is actually true, so I could advise people to worry less about the later, and more about the former.

    Love and More Love,
    Grinity


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    Today I asked our new pediatrician about OT. I told her that we never got authorization for more than the six sessions (one every other week) with the OT last year and I wondered why. She said our insurance company still won't pay for OT for sensory issues or visual motor integration problems and the insurance company's reasoning is that school should pay for OT because even if the child is not in school he "could" be.

    We told her about his sleeping difficulties (which also contribute to mine) and the phobias but she didn't say much about it.

    She noticed a difference with his spine that other doctors hadn't noticed and he got his first X-Ray. Now we find out he has scoliosis. My son is worried that he will have to wear a brace all the time and he has always been so sensitive to the clothing he wears. He didn't seem that upset until we got home and the doctor called to confirm that he would have to have treatment for it. Now he is very upset. He says he won't be able to stand wearing a brace and I am also wondering how he will deal with this. I am sure this is going to be a little more difficult to deal with than the clothes that never felt right or the sock problems. He thinks he will get less sleep than he does now. I don't think either one of us can handle that. I thought we would get some of our problems resolved and we only find out that we had another that we didn't even know about.

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    Oh, Lori, my heart goes out to both of you. Not at all what you expected when making that appointment, I'm sure.

    I hope that the pediatrician will be sending him to someplace that specializes in pediatrics. Hopefully there will be physical therapists or orthotists who are knowledgable about and sympathetic to the sensory issues. I would imagine that there are other kids who have dealt with the same issues. I've personally worked with adults who have sensitive skin and/or senosry issues and don't tolerate things like carpal tunnel braces or other hand/wrist braces. I did have one little guy who had surgery done on both legs for tendon lengthening and needed casts on both legs simultaneously. We were sure he wouldn't tolerate the casts due to sensory issues, but he did amazingly well with it. Perhaps it won't be as bad as your son pictures it. But I certainly understand the anxiety about it.

    I hope that the process goes smoothly and with as little disruption to the rest of life as possible.

    As far as the OT being covered by your insurance, I wonder if you could find an OT who would advocate for your son. There typically does need to be a medical diagnosis but then most OTs will use billing codes that are accepted by insurance versus those that aren't. Unless there is just no way to make the treatment medically necessary....sometimes the needs just come across as too educationally oriented and then don't get covered.

    Maybe this new medical diagnosis could work in his favor and help to get OT and PT?

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    Oh Lori - I'm so sad to hear that you have a new worry. I am praying for you and your family.
    Grinity


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    I'm hoping for the best for you, Lori!


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    Lori - this may be out of left field, and I haven't read this whole thread, but I am pretty sure that certain kinds of scoliosis are a symptom of a tethered spinal cord (which is diagnosed by MRI). I recall that from my reading last fall. My ds5 (who has SPD, among other issues) was discovered to have a tethered cord and had surgery to release it last October (by a pediatric neurosurgeon). He did not have scoliosis as a symptom, but I'm constantly looking for scoliosis in the other kids because they too have wierd butt crack issues (sacral dimples, etc.). In ds5's case, his tethered cord was caused by a filum lipoma (fatty filum) and the surgery was fairly simple. I'm just glad it's fixed because that can prevent further neurological deterioration as he grows. To the extent that a tethered cord causes neurological issues, they can be permanent (sometimes/often) though some patients see improvement following surgery.

    My point is that if, by any strange chance, your child's scoliosis was caused by a tethered cord, it may be surgically fixable - releasing the tether may greatly improve the scoliosis. Just thought I'd throw that out there in case the ped hadn't considered that possible cause. It may be well worth at least asking the question.

    sending hugs from the land of strange, random medical issues smile

    p.s. it's a long story, but I was the one who identified the possible issue with ds5 and brought it up to the ped. (I was googling about the baby's sacral dimple and came across some info, and then remembered ds5's symptoms.) His symptoms were potty issues (constipation and voiding problems) and a tiny skin tag in his butt crack that the ped didn't know about. When I mentioned it, she wanted to see him right away, and then immediately ordered the MRI. We were both surprised with the result. Now his ITP seems to be turning into congenital thrombocytopenia - the land of strange medical issues...

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    Thanks. I found out yesterday that a cousin on his dad's side of the family also had scoliosis and had to wear a brace as a child. Her mom said it was very hard for her daughter to deal with (and she didn't have sensory issues) but the experience led to her consider a career in the medical field. My son also has an older gifted friend who was also recently diagnosed with scoliosis. This boy is already over six feet tall and surgery might be his only option because he is almost finished growing. At least there is a chance my son might be able to avoid surgery by wearing a brace. I hope so because he has an extreme fear of surgery just like I do after seeing what happened to my mother after she had "routine" surgery.

    I think it was hearing that treatment could involve surgery that really got to him. This is a kid who rarely cries. He jokes his way through everything. This the kid who could find something positive in almost everything--even my mother's quality of life that I thought was just not there because with no short term memory she couldn't read or carry on a conversation or take care of even her most basic needs. But he was able to point out that she has her husband who takes good care of her and gives her the one thing she enjoys in life now--ice cream. He makes sure that she has all kinds of different flavors of ice cream. Her eyes light up with happiness when he tells her it is time for ice cream. My son told me that my problem is that I never found my "ice cream" and I spend too much time worrying and it really bothers him to see me worrying. He said his grandmother doesn't worry any more--she is past that now. I wish I had somehow been able to record exactly what he said because it brought tears to my dad's eyes and mine. He has a way with words, a definite gift, that I just don't have. When I recently had anxiety to the point that my blood pressure went out of control he sat with me and made jokes to distract me and talked me through it.

    After my doctor's appointment, he heard me tell my husband about the woman who took my blood pressure who told me that it was the "highest she had ever seen" which was not something to tell someone in the middle of a panic attack and we talked about how important the things we say to people are, especially in times of stress. I have always told him that he has a real gift for knowing the right words to say to make people feel better.

    He cried for the first time in a very long time yesterday and asked why this was happening to him and I so wished that I had his gift of knowing the right words to say. I so wanted to make him feel better. I went into another room and called my husband and he was able to come home from work early and he talked to him and reassured him that he will get through it and it will be okay. His sister called him about ten times last night to tell him important things like girls will still like him because of his personality and that if her boyfriend had this it wouldn't make any difference at all to her.

    He is feeling better this morning, thank goodness.

    I hope insurance will cover most of this. My sister-in-law told me that they went into debt because some things were not covered and she thought they spent about $25,000. My husband is older than I am and will retire in less than 4 years so the financial part of this has me a little worried too, but I forgot, I am not supposed to worry. I have to go find my ice cream.


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    I can understand your apprehension about the brace and sensory issues. DD6 fusses that wearing a watch bothers her and has the sock issue too. It sounds like his knowing what to say to others will help him find the right things to tell himself as he deals with this challenge.

    Bibliotherapy may also be a good approach. Deenie by Judy Blume comes to mind as well as the story of Frida Kahlo. He may find more of a male perspective from other boys going through this on a message board: http://www.spinekids.com/

    Sorry to hear you're faced with this on top of everything else.

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