Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Not sure what to do - testing?

My ds8 is in 3rd, doing very well in most subjects (a's). Math has always been a conundrum - he's just flummoxed by these timed math sheets, and this week the whole thing started all over again. He got a 'd' on his first (and apparently ONLY) assessment on simple addition math facts.
Previously this year he was sailing through most of his math homework, it's pretty simple stuff after all at this point: review from 2nd.
Anyway, he came home tuesday with the news about the d.
Later that evening he was really struggling with his math worksheet, and by the end of it just said 'I'm really lost in MATH!'. It was like his ability to any of it had just gone out the window.
I was pretty dismayed. I spoke with the teacher and she said she'd noticed he mostly does fine in math, and couldn't really understand the d. She will work with him on it and re-test at some point, and at least attach that sheet to the first one, so that is good. Not sure if he'll do any better.
I suggested also that he's pretty visual and if any of the work could be more along those lines, pictures, physical representations of things, etc., that might be helpful.

Last night was a repeat of the 'I'm lost in math' scenario, but even worse!! He worked on avoiding the worksheet for at least 20 minutes and then when it finally came down to doing it, did one sheet in an aching 30 minutes and the next sheet he didn't even finish. I am going to try to get him to do it this morning before class. It is mostly pretty basic stuff, so when he said last night 'I'm SOOOOOOO Bored', I could see why.
I read JBDad's recent post about mixing it up with harder stuff, so I tried a bit, and that was at least something he was interested in doing but we had run out of time to do too much.
It was massively frustrating to me and him. At one point I had to leave the room because I was getting so upset - thinking WHY DOESN'T HE JUST DO THE WORK, I KNOW HE CAN, it's like torture for both of us. I think the whole circus lasted about 1.5 hours! ug.
To cap off this lousy night, he whizzed through his government quiz study and took a much needed break and read some Calvin and Hobbes so I think he was ok by the end of hte night, but I am not.
I will throw into the mix that I might be a lousy person to be working with him on this, and our toddler did interrupt quite a bit because DH was working out of the house.

Can anyone tell me if this might indicate a learning disability and if so, what sort? Also, what kind of testing might be helpful to get to the bottom of this?
He (like all the 3rd grdrs) is going to take a Cogat and maybe some other testing this year for the next level GT program that starts in 4th. He is in the 1st level program now.

Lastly, I would consider going through the school to get testing done for an ld, but I would like to know what pitfalls to avoid if anyone has any tips. We are in va.

THANKS!

Hi, Chris,

Not sure it will help, but... My DS8 seemed to have forgotten all of his math facts after a year in the local public school where they used everyday math and never (!) did a timed math sheet. He, too, was fine with the thinking of math, but tried to avoid the effort of calculation, and was never fast.

I decided to try Aleks with him, and it turns out he loves quicktables - which is a surprise to me. I had him start with a review of the addition tables and he actually enjoys it. The timer is set for 3 seconds and he has to type in his answers. After reaching certain percentages, he earns a game (of more math facts). They have addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. The program only allows him to work on it for 15 minutes, and it's all he's willing to do (i.e., doesn't like the basic math program - but we'll get to that).

I just mention this b/c you can get a 30 day free trial on Aleks and maybe your son will enjoy the simple review and gain confidence. For my DS, I'm thinking that once the basic math facts are easily and quickly accessible, he won't avoid the rest of it (longer calcuations, having to write them out, etc.).

And another thing which we experienced - the first time DS8 saw one of those full timed worksheets for multiplication (where he's not that sure of his facts), he was intimidated by the size of it. To get him started, we had to break them into chunks - i.e., just do the first column, or just do the ones you really know easily first, etc. I'd think the teacher could probably do this for him - give him five separate pages of only 5-10 problems each rather than one page of 50 - but one at a time. Let him build up his stamina and confidence before he has to attempt one big one. And if he's not nearly finishing, just start him off with a little more than he did last time. I'm sure it's stressful for him to see all the other kids working through the same sheet more quickly. I'd expect he spends time thinking about the fact that he's not good at it rather than just doing it and finding out that in fact he is fine at it. (We get that a lot - too hard, too much, delay, delay, delay - oh, that was easy!)

As for a LD, we did a full eval. and the LD supposedly appears as the difference b/n the IQ and achievement. Whether or not DS has a LD (not clear in our circumstances), a good testing psych should be able to tell you what's going on.

And unrelated but - I'm surprised your son's school gives A's and D's (!) to third graders. No school around here even grades at that age. A D to a third grader? What's the point of that?!!

For anyone whose visual kids are having trouble with timed math facts, try the touchpoints system.

You don't need to buy it, the idea is simple. You visualize touchpoints on the numerals and use them as counters. The kids can learn to tap on the numbers with their pencil tips and can get pretty fast.

For subtraction facts use my "add to subtract" method for teen numbers minus 9 through 5.

Here's an example 17-8. 17 is a 10 and a 7. I can't take 8 from 7, but I can take 8 from 10 (child probably knows 10-8=2). So when I do (10-8)+7 I get 2+7=9. Once they understand how this works show them the shortcut. Whenever I am subtracting 8 from a teen number I can just look at the ones digit of the teen number and add 2. So I see 17-8 and I think 7...8,9.

There's even a pattern of what you add to subtract.

To subtract 9, add 1
To subtract 8, add 2
To subtract 7, add 3
To subtract 6, add 4
To subtract 5, add 5

You add whatever goes with the number you're subtracting to make ten.

I guess I'm saying that I didn't have DD memorize these math facts. Instead, I taught her to calculate them quickly using shortcuts. Over time, she had memorized most of them just by using them.

I would like to start a new question but am not sure how..... It related to this but I am no expert so I really can not contribute my own answer to this. How do I make a new post. This is in regards to my son 8 yrs old GAI of 151 and processing speed of 83, almost a 70 point difference. Any help would be appreciated. He is is a 5 day a week gifted public school that doesn't want to address this. Thank you.

You can make a new topic by going back to the list of topics and then clicking on the "new topic" button in the upper left corner.

I'm starting one for you here:

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/26877#Post26877

Assuming it's not a learning disorder (and perhaps even if it is), I've found this: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/mathblaster1insearchofspot/index.html to be an extraordinary asset in a similar situation. A certain amount of play was required (say, half and hour each night) and overseen by parents. Though there were still complaints, it made the process more bearable for all parties involved, and proved to be extremely effective, too. Now, obviously with a release date in the mid-nineties it is probably no longer available, and should you manage to find it may be no good on your current system. However, an analogous (and slightly newer) game may provide some stimulation for your son and come to be, if not enjoyed, at least tolerated as a tool for learning math. Not to mention that, if you play your cards right, you should be able to adjust the level of difficulty - a challenge he may find invigorating .

*[Edit] I would like to mention that I agree with Cathy; teaching him memorization shortcuts - or, even better, encouraging him to come up with his own - is another effective way to help him. I'd also say that if he can do more difficult problems, encourage that. It may turn out that all he needs in some motivation, in which case I'd suggest speaking to his teacher about having him do a more advanced curriculum in math.

You can also subtract to add

9+6=10+(6-1)=15. I call that "take away 1 and teen it".

For adding 8, you take away 2 and teen it.