Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Frustrated - need to vent!

I have fraternal twins (very much opposites of each other). One is very verbal, one very visual-spatial. They just finished the 2nd grade. One is miserable, hates school, and feels that he has no friends that are like him. They both are in top classes (our school ability groups). We have never felt that their teachers have "gotten" them or formed "connections" with them. We had them independently tested (WISC IV FSIQ's of 131 and 134). Our school district does not accept outside testing for admittance into it's gifted program. The tests that they administer for admittance are the COGAT and the ITBS (not the best tests for my visual/spatial one, and not even the right tests for giftedness in my opinion). We have talked to teachers, the gifted specialist (just a teacher), and the principal - and don't feel much better about things. Both of our next door neighbors' kids are in the gifted program; out of 9 kids from our school on our soccer team, 7 are in the program; out of our top language arts class of over twenty kids, only six aren't in the program. Is it just me, or is something just not right? I could go on and on giving more details about this story. Do I even want to bother having them tested at school, which wouldn't be until spring of the next school year (they only test once a year)?

hmmmm...that's frustrating. How did your kids do on the CoGat and ITBS? Were there any discrepancies on their WISC IV subscales....significant scatter in their scores? I'm especially wondering that for your visual-spatial child.
What is your school district's definition of "gifted"?

That's a pretty high rate of children in the gifted program. How many children were in 2nd grade overall?

It really sounds like they do not have a "gifted program", but rather have a "high achievement" program. That's sad, but most school districts and schools see achievement as evidence of giftedness and as such tend to neglect the truly gifted.

Have you thought about gradeskips? Perhaps the "so called gifted program" with one year older kids would be a good fit? What about summer programs and afterschool enrichement. It breaks my hear to hear about your son not feeling in-sync.

When it comes to counting your blessing here are a few I can think of -
1) they both score similarly and are at similar levels of giftedness - I can't imagine how hard parenting twins who are of moderatly different levels of giftedness is
2) you school ability groups - my whole district has done away with that through middle school!
3) they have each other as potential friends

So, there are lots of ways to "skin the cat" - what are your main concerns and what have you tried so far?

Love and More Love,
Trinity

Willa Gayle -
We have not taken the COGAT or ITBS, yet. Yes, there was some scatter on my visual-spatial one's scores. He has been tested for CAPD and they said he was normal. On his WIAT, his oral score was significantly lower than his written score. The Dr. who administered his test, said that she thinks he is choosing to disengage for a reason (we get complaints from the school that he won't talk to his teachers enough)(I can tell you that when he decides he wants to talk to someone, he can be very articulate and charming). She also thinks that he is years ahead in picking up on social cues from people.

Our district is using the state's definition: Gifted and talented students are children or youth who perform at or show the potential for performing at a remarkably high level of accomplishment when compared to others of the same age, experience, or environment and who: (1) exhibit high performance capability in an intellectual, creative, or artistic area; (2) possess an unusual capacity for leadership; or (3) excel in a specific academic field. [The PACE program's emphasis is on general intellectual ability.]

There were 76 students in the 2nd grade.


Trinity -
There is one student in our grade who gradeskips for math (he is a "summer baby" who is close to a year older than some of the students). I honestly don't think they would consider a grade skip for us, because honestly, I think they would say that the work that they have produced in the classroom so far doesn't warrant it. (We have one who rushes through everything and one who spaces out and daydreams, although they both do well and are well-behaved, they are not your typical "teacher-pleasers".)
They have done piano, Scouts, sports, Destination Imagination, etc. They are going to attend some Summer Institue for the Gifted classes offered by our district.

My main concerns are:
One of them is very unhappy and feels that although he has classmates that he could call friends, there is no one like him who he really clicks with and he does not like school and thinks it is boring.
I do not think that any of their teachers in the past couple of years has "gotten" either of them and I just don't think they they are being given the chance at school to achieve their full potentials.

I really agree with what Willa Gayle pointed out. I think that in our community, "high achievers" are being recognized and the truly gifted are being neglected.

The Dr. who performed their testing thought that we should get involved with the state gifted association and try to hook up with some others families that way.

Thank you both so much for your input. It really means a lot!

Do you mind sharing the scatter? Is the perceptual high and the verbal low for your visual-spatial or is it the other way around. A high PRI and a low VCI are indicative of auditory processing issues. Even if you don't want to say which is which, how much point scatter is there?

My son "wanders" and is inattentive. I have finally figured out that it is a "self-compensatory" denfense mechanism response to the extremely traumatic experience of boredom. Our kids are under extreme stress and use their imaginations and ideas to relieve it. Seriously, I think that is what is going on and our children need immediate help to stop this process or it will become a deeply seated life long habit that will hinder their success. They need rigor in their education and they need acceleration at their own pace in order to develop the ability to listen and the ability to learn. It sounds weird; since we tend to think of our gifted kids as good learners, but really they are not good learners in the typical, slow paced classroom. They learn to entertain themselves, while the other kids are learning.

for our son, in spite of average grades, we are advocating for a grade skip. he needs the rigor and challenge in order to develop normally. He needs to learn to learn.


It is interesting to me that your district and the PACE program are not using the definition of giftedness they list. If your child is scoring high in an area then he meets the #1 area of "performance capability in an intellectual, creative or artistic area". It says "AN" not "ALL".

Like the other thread about possible 2E, I would suggest requesting a complete and thorough evaluation for qualification to special education services. I won't kid you; it is a battle to get an evaluation and then the battle goes into full time war, but short of homeschooling, it is, imo, the only way to get your child's needs met in the public school system. It also feels weird getting SPED for a gifted child, but it is really the only way right now to get help. Even so, once you get it, it is very difficult to get them to do it RIGHT!! We've worked on my Mite's IEP for 7 months and it is just now looking like it will actually help him reach his potential.

I wish the Dept. of Education would mandate updating of information and training in the regular classroom for gifted kids. Districts are sooooooooooo far behind the ball. Our state just passed funding for "gifted" kids, but without mandates or definitions of what is gifted. So, our district continues to provided programs for the high achieving, but doesn't even bother to "identify" the gifted or provide programing for them.


Now I'm going to start a thread about social cues.

Of course, VCI is higher, 13 point scatter. We were concerned about CAPD.

Our school does ability grouping, and since he is in the highest group and already performing "above-level", they would not even give him a speech and hearing screening. We paid out-of-pocket for speech and hearing tests, and on the auditory processing he was normal, but lower than the other areas. They referred us for extensive testing for CAPD since they thought that because he is bright he may just be compensating. Upon further testing (also out-of-pocket), they said his tests were normal.

He complains about noise in the classroom. Our class is known for being "chatty".

Hi Bas11981!

you said -
There is one student in our grade who gradeskips for math (he is a "summer baby" who is close to a year older than some of the students). I honestly don't think they would consider a grade skip for us, because honestly, I think they would say that the work that they have produced in the classroom so far doesn't warrant it. (We have one who rushes through everything and one who spaces out and daydreams, although they both do well and are well-behaved, they are not your typical "teacher-pleasers".)

I would encourage you to get the Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual, about 20$ from Amazon, and start filling it out on scratch paper for both boys. If you think both would be well served by a gradeskip, then do start rolling the ball, as it won't hurt and might help.

As far as the "not producing" in the classroom, one way around it is to start "Afterschooling" at home in a subject that they both might get excited about. The benifits are that you may have some product to bring to the school to show them "who your boys are." The other benifit is that they get to learn in a more natural way for them. The last benifit is that you get to observe them as learners - it's a way to get to know your own children that you wouldn't otherwise have.

Best Wishes,
Trinity

Wow I am in the exact same situation. Our district uses the CogAT as well. My son scored about average on that specific test. He also scored 99.8 percentile on the WIAT in math and is currently in EPGY (Stanford) and just qualified for CTY (Johns Hopkins). In their above level test he scored in the 86th percentile when compared to children two grade levels above. He doesn't qualify for GATE, however. Almost everyone we know is in the GATE program except my son.

I gave up trying to deal with them and I used EPGY to keep my son interested in math. He is exceptionally ahead of his classmates in math yet he is in gen ed.

He is also autistic. This may be why he did poorly in the group CogAT testing. Still they did not retest him or take that into consideration.

So you are not alone. Try using some outside gifted resources like EPGY http://epgy.stanford.edu/

or CTY http://cty.jhu.edu/

Good luck! I think that there are many like us.