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I can't speak to the ADHD question - although you certainly could have her evaluated for this - but your description made me wonder if something else is going on. Is she frustrated or stressed? Does she perhaps not want to perform in dance this year?

I have been told by a very well-repected pediatrician that ADHD is often diagnosed when in reality, there is a different issue causing the behavior in question. In school, this may be an LD. In other situations, there may be issues of perfectionism, or boredom, or...you get the idea. Maybe ask your DD what's going on - she may surprise you with some insight that may help.

DS7 has ADHD, it is sometimes difficult. We knew very early that he had it- he was like a superball when he was little. At one point, for about 6 months, we couldn't go into public. He's could focus on one thing but was bouncy.

As he has gotten older we have noticed a change to some degree, he will sometimes just zone out and not pay attention to what is going around him. This is not a good thing at tae kwondo during sparring practice. I thought that maybe he was having simple stair seizures, but he will respond if you call him.

He still gets over excited by things. He has come up some coping skills to deal with it. I have also taught him to some relaxation skills. They help, but he still has some issues dealing with a verbal list of instructions.

I hope this helps you.

You are discribing my dd (7) to a tee!!

I hope there are folks that chime in with other ideas! We have had dd to the Opthamologist, Audiologist and Pediatrician. All that came out of all this is that she needed glasses for reading and that she has a personality that is just better suited to nonconformity. In other words, until she learns that she has to do what the teacher asks when she asks and the way she asks, little bear won't do well in school. So we are empty handed as far as what other avenues to follow.

I am looking forward to reading the responses.

MON- Voila! I knew there had to be something else going on with your DD. Most of what I know about parenting I learned from DD and DS...

Mamabear - could you elaborate about your DD's situation? Are ther 2E issues? Is she bored, frustrated or just irascible? Have you had her evaluated professionally?

My son was diagnosed with ADHD and he's not shown any differences in behaviors than most kids. He goes to the same school where I teach, and his preschool behavior was normal. He had difficulties with writing, but that's all. He excelled in math and anything verbally presented to him was retained for what seemed like forever. :lol

Now that he's in 3rd grade, he needs to move a lot. He also has a table for his work that's away from other kids and traffic patterns. He's really able to focus there. Is that part of being gifted? I don't know. I do know that now that he's receiving some intervention for dysgraphia and possible dyxlexia, the behavior is diminishing. The psychologist's exact words were "He fits the criteria for adhd." When I asked if she thought he needed to be medicated, she said no.

"Mamabear - could you elaborate about your DD's situation? Are ther 2E issues? Is she bored, frustrated or just irascible? Have you had her evaluated professionally?"

I am sorry that it took so long to respond. We FINALLY got the school to respond to our requests. They are going to do a FULL evaluation as we try to figure things out.

I will say that the teacher and the school are being very accomodating. She reads above grade level but math is really horrible for her so they work at both where she is comfortable.

She is probably 2E. We are waiting for the testing to be done. I know there is a "proceedure" but the waiting is hard, knowing that she needs intervention.

Does anyone have a dc that is ADD (no hyperactivity)? We are in the midst of a variety of testing and I am seeing lots of subtle and not so subtle moves toward medications.

I am very leary of medications for a multitude of reasons.

So, I guess I am asking what other avenues we can follow. babybear is not a behavior problem other than she "tunes out" rather than acts out, so she misses instructions, etc.

Yes, but they come and go, he'll be able to do his form in Tae Kwon Do perfectly in one class and then in the next, it's like he is a novice. then the next class it's back to know the whole thing. It depends on how focused he is and how confident he is at the start of class. For him it is tied to his self confidence.

We find this with our son, he goes through fits and starts..... it seems to coincide with growth spurts, when he is going through a growth spurt, he eats like a hound and can't follow directions at all. Once he is through the spurt, he goes back to normal.

Our son has ADHD, and is gifted. I have looked over the check list and he has aspects of both really. He is clearly gifted. But there has never been a time that I thought he had anything else but ADHD. He's been bouncing off the walls from birth. But as he has gotten older he has gotten much better at focusing. His ablity at this point is inconsistant, but most of the time he can focus after one or two prompts.

I have a DH who has ADD. He got diagnosed and started on meds when he was about 30, but never had any problems academically. He has a PhD and teaches college. He had problems managing time, shifting gears, handling interuptions, and priotitizing things. His ADD did not become a problem until he had a job and family to juggle.

I guess the questions for you would be:
1) how bad are the problems?
2) What else have you done to address them?
3) Is she spacing out because she is not challenged enough?
4) If she is in a situation with a good education fit and is still having problems, would you be willing to do a short trial of meds?

We knew after 2 days of meds that they were helping DH immensely. For us, it was a no-brainer to keep him on them because they were so effective. If you try them and don't see a difference, then that helps make the decision.

The issues enough are big enough that she has to be "retaught" in order to do the work. If she doesn't find it interesting, she goes elsewhere in her mind, talks to herself or makes "spit noises".

As far as what we are doing, she is being evaluated at school. A process that is taking MONTHS!!!

It could be that she doesn't want to learn things that she is not interested in. She LOVES reading, science, and all the "Arts" programs. She dispises Math and has a very hard time writing (could be dysgraphia?).

My reasons for no medication run very deep and I will leave it at that as I do not wish to debate it. I would rather work any other avenue. Right now we are trying some nutritional changes.

Mamabear,

We also explored many other options before resorting to meds and that makes perfect sense to me. The meds my DH is on do have side effects and we do not take the decision lightly. OTOH, looking at his unmedicated family members, we shudder to think what would have happened in our marriage and his life if he were unmedicated.

Depending on the evaluation resources available in your school, you may wish to go outside of that system. Second and third opinions can be very useful in a situation like hers. Even if the district resources are excellent, I might still want to look to a private expert as well.

We are looking at any avenue we find.

I appreciate that meds work in your situation. As I said, I am wanting to debate that at all. Everyone has to do what is best for their family.

Thank you for your input. It is helpful.

Mamabear,

I wasn't wanting to debate either; I am very supportive of your decision to try other options first. I hope that you don't have to go the medication route.

I've been thinking about this for a long time and I guess this is what I want to tell people who are faced with these decisions. For us, when we first went with meds it felt like a failure, like maybe we should still be trying other things. That was discouraging for us, especially for DH who really felt like if he were a better person or if he tried harder, he wouldn't need meds. In fact, he really beat himself up about it. Several years later, we don't see the meds as failure, but reasonable option of last resort. I truly hope your child/spouse doesn't need meds and that you find solutions without side-effects, but if it ultimately comes to meds, be kind to yourself.

Hugs,
Anne

Thank You for your input Anne. I truly appreciate it!

[quote=Mamabear]Does anyone have a dc that is ADD (no hyperactivity)? We are in the midst of a variety of testing and I am seeing lots of subtle and not so subtle moves toward medications.


Mamabear,

I have an 18yo gifted daughter who was diagnosed Inattentive ADD at the age of 12. She was much more difficult to diagnose than her brother (ADHD). With a master's in gifted ed, I was concerned about gifted characteristics being mistakenly "diagnosed" as ADD/ADHD, but my children are truly both. If you have any questions about inattentive ADD, PM me and I can give you more info on the path we took. (She is now a freshman in college and enrolled in the honors program so there's hope!)

Through further testing, we have discovered that dd has visual issues that can mimic ADD symptoms. I really have not been sold on the diagnosis for DD, because she is so inconsistantly inattentive.

For now, we are following up with a behavioral Optometrist. It seems like this is the better fit for dd.

I appreciate your input and will continue to check in as I do more research and have further questions/concerns.

Thank you for your response!

Mamabear,

Have you looked at Tourette's as a possible cause? Tourette (TS), AD/HD and OCD are believed to be genetically related. It causes verbal tics (including spitting), behavior problems and handwriting issues. There's no cure and I think of it as an eccentricity. No biggie. Check out www.tsa-usa.org

Interestingly, the tics wax and wane so it causes inconsistent behavior.

Definitely not Tourette's. We have since discovered a serious lag in visual/perceptual skills. She is in Vision Therapy currently and we are seeking OT/PT evals (motor and sensory). This has been a long road but we are gaining on things...I hope!

Thank you for your thoughts!
MB

If I understand correctly, they've changed the label to just AD/HD with a slash. There is no ADD anymore. Then, whoever is doing the diagnosis selects the subtype of which there are something like eleven.

How is it going with the visual opthamologist? What is the treatment like? I'm really interested in this area because I suspect DS6 might have auditory problems that are causing AD/HD behavior, but I'm not sure.

This was me. I am/was GT as well. I found out about ADD in college, but didn't do anything about it until after having kids. I still have issues, even on meds, but they are extremely helpful. They at least decrease the anxiety I had over not being able to get things accomplished, etc.

I would not be surprised if either of my two have it. I'm glad that I have been diagnosed because now I know what to look for in them.

I read that girls tend to be more accommodating in class/flexible in general - and therefore their ADHD or ADD often goes undiagnosed. DS6 was just curious and the type to climb up to look in the fish tank you know - when he was nearly 3 and in Montessori . The other kids some of them younger - were content to put their hands in the un-cooked pasta, and just weren't as lively!! I think its important to check for ADHD - but being the world's biggest skeptic due to all the "epidemic" of it - I still say find someone that monitors brainwaves QEEG I think it is - don't just go by observation. Even now, DS6 displays characteristics of ADHD and ODD that are so similar to gifted that without QEEG I'd really wonder about misdiangosis and to some degree I still do. You can find comparative lists on About.com.

We are going to try and use Biofeedback if we can figure out how to afford it. Ultimately, I don't think our insurance covers ADHD drugs anyway, and then again, insurance assumes you will always have a job and insurance - which in these hard times -isn't certain. Biofeedback can improve it/cure it almost I think. Drugs are going to mask it, and possibly lead to permanent damage in other areas - which I just think for a potentially gifted kid is really not a great route to go - though really for even a non-gifted kid - it's not a greate route to go.

To answer the earlier question about has there been a decline as child got older in attention? Hard to say. I think the biggest change was the manifesting ODD behavior in school situations and the harder line he takes back talking at home when unhappy. He is able to focus on anything that interests him for hours (but there is such a thing as over focused ADHD if you read Daniel Amen's book). His impatience level of wanting everything "now" has always been there.

This is how my own ADD went undiagnosed for years... couple that with being bright and/or GT, and everything seemed great on the outside. I was diagnosed in college with it, but it wasn't until I was a mother that it became an issue for me. The one thing that I'm thankful for DS5 (and DD3) is that he is able to concentrate for hours on one single thing. I can play on the computer for hours, but not play the same game over and over again, etc... but DS5 does have other characteristics that are very similar to those with ADHD, but those same characteristics are common in gifted children his age.

Boys tend to be more hyper by nature anyway, but even as someone with ADD, who encourages women to get help if they think they have ADD, I really think that ADD/ADHD (I personally think they are separate) is overly diagnosed these days, especially in young kids. And like you, IronMom, I cannot buy into the ADD/ADHD epidemic, even as someone labeled as such.

PS. it helps to figure out if I commented in this thread before repeating my answer again (ADD trait or GT trait???? )

"If I understand correctly, they've changed the label to just AD/HD with a slash. There is no ADD anymore. Then, whoever is doing the diagnosis selects the subtype of which there are something like eleven." - Tried to quote from above - it didn't work -sorry.

Yes - the label was changed to ADHD to encompass both disorders in 1994. They actually include the word "disorder" at the end - though this is causing controversy - because a lot of people just think that the brains of people with ADHD work differently. This is also how many people with Asperger's see themselves - as different / extremely left brained - not disabled. I think its very annoying that so many books describe all these people with words such as disabled, disorder, problem - very negative terms to use. Pay atetention when you next read a book for description about these conditions that terms it that way. It makse me feel totally depressed. So guard your mind!!

I'm sure if I followed Daniel Amen's advice - that one parent nearly always has ADHD too - I would be the parent that has it. I was a hyper kid, and even if I were diganosed now, I wouldn't "buy into it". But, I can see that maybe drugs would help some people. Then again - a change of attitude also helps! And there's the really extreme lines of research that are perhaps too "out there" for some - like that book Biology of Belief - that claims DNA is a blueprint and can be changed and we can co-create changes in ourselves. So ....I would never just accept I had a condition and take drugs without thinking that through some more.

I'm with you. And with the evolution of something like ADD now having 11 subcategories, it's looking more like a *spectrum*.

I expect to see much more of this as currently brain research seems to be exploding. ADD is excutive funciton and there are so many fine areas in which *differences* can cause various symptoms.

I sometimes wonder if the term "mental illness" is fast becoming as offensive and archaic as the term "retarded". Okay, a little OT but hope you see where I'm going here.

Oh, I will say that I don't necessarily disagree with medication. Just because we know more about how the brain works doesn't mean we should throw out medication totally, baby with the bathwater.

((currently medicating myself with caffeine)) Also, anxiety can cause many of the same syptoms that ADD does....okay, I think I'm done now.

Yes, I've posted elsewhere that I respect people's decision to use it. I think maybe lose doses really are helping a lot of people. I'd be wary of doctors trying ot up the dosage unnecessarily. Mostly, I'm curious to see what new research brings. It's it a spectrum disorder (I think it has to be - because we all at some time suffer from inattentives, forgetfulness etc to varying degrees - but maybe not the point at which it "handicaps" our life.) I'm curious to see if they ever make a link between gifted and ADHD and why they present with such similar symptoms and why GT is so often a part of a condition that is also ADHD, or Aspergers. I don't kow if the 11 subcategories are official. I got the impression from Daniel Amen's book that there is no official sub-category list - and he lists 6 subtypes I believe. If anyone has an update on that - I'd like to hear about it.

It would also be interesting to see how they ae going about reserach ADHD, and who is funding it. I'm thinking here of the whole Michael J. Fox - how they fund Parkinson's research argument. Are the funding it from a political perspective, from a perspective that benefits the drug companies or other etc?

So would I. The number 11 is what I've been hearing from the pscyhs in my community but I can't find anything online that supports it. I was hoping someone here would know. LOL.

That just can't be true... I think that, particularly #1 and #2, have to be totally normal. I'm not HG, but seriously, this makes it sound like I have a huge case of ADHD. And I don't. Just because I like to procrastinate and haven't gotten around to writing a simple thank you note that I've been meaning to since January doesn't mean I'm pathalogic. Geez.

What does #3 have to do with ADHD, I wonder. That's just thinking things through, isn't it?

I often wonder about both ADHD and Aspeger's, or at least the mild form of both and whether healthcare professionals are just turning some very mature behaviors into symptoms of something off. Maybe the problem is that the gifted kids have a stronger sense of self than the others. They are not going to be motivated by grades if they consider that meaningless.

I don't know about anyone else here, but I often feel like my 6 and 7 year olds are going through their teenage years right now. They are already questioning everything, already have their own opinions and don't want to do things I ask them to do just because I say so, and balk against doing chores when they don't want to. My youngest would also be a video game addict if I let him. In other words, I see the components listed as something I would expect in teenagers, but maybe not 6 or 7 year olds. In which case what I'm seeing is a sign of maturity rather than otherwise.

Just a final thought:

My ds6 is diagnosed ADHD. I went to El Salvador to visit family for a week and stayed with my aunt, who had three ADHD sons out of five children. She watched him, and told me in very insulted tones that DS6 is not ADHD. He is very bright and enthusiastic, but her sons would never have been able to have the sustained attention that he can have when it comes to tasks he is interested in.

In El Salvador, no one thought anything about either of my kids. My uncles gave me some advice as to how to redirect my DS7, and took my DS6 under his wing and helped him work in the wood workshop. There was no feeling that the kids were different from other kids. It was extremely refreshing.

http://www.incrediblehorizons.com/mimic-adhd.htm

Perhaps this website bears repeating.

Thanks for putting this website up again. My DS11 does have ADHD (I believe as do doctors) but I don't think that the ADHD is the major cause of his school difficulties. I have ADHD and was one of those spacey, disorganized kids at school, but I didn't suffer a lot of diminished self esteem from this back in the "old days."

In the elementary school years I think the overexcitabilites of the gifted, anxiety that may come with ADHD, the classroom environment, teacher expectations, and finally learning disabilities should all be investigated in school/social life is suffering. Somewhere on here someone posted the article about the fact that the higher the IQ, the later the thickening of the pre-frontal cortex in children. Anyway, I'm starting to feel that except in the most extreme cases, an ADHD label in the primary grades might be premature.

Has anyone else started to go this route in their thinking?

Oh, and we were told that ADHD is difficulty focusing when you "want" to but are not interested in the subject. So reading a good book for hours might be "hyperfocus" which can be part of ADHD, whereas reading the social studies chapter and answering the questions (or not) would be a result of ADHD.