Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Anyone Agnostic here?

I was born and raised Catholic, but have known that it wasn't my path since 9th grade (same with my husband). And now I am worried about what to say to my son as far as religion goes. I want him to make his own mind up, but I would still love to start him with some kind of base. Any suggestions? BTW...we still do practice all holidays, so I do explain to him what they are all about. But, even that is hard for me since I don't believe just the basics being 100% truthful.

Quakerism isn't my religion, but if I reccomend you look closely at it.

What about Quakerism do you recommend?

well I too am one of those used to be catholic...... for me though I just don't like the church. I found buddism to be a nice solid place to start, it is not actually a religon but a philosopy.

We have had religion talks since DS9 was about 6 he "stole" a bible from the hotel we were at because he had finished the books he brought for the week. I had my own "religion quest when I was about 12 and DS was having those same kinds of questions. We are not church goers but DS has always been very spiritual. We will ask friends of his that are diffrent religions to join them in a holiday celebration or read about ones that are happening. He asked once if he had to decide what religion he was and was very relieved to know he could take as long or as little as he wanted and in fact he never had to decide on one if he didn't want to. He actually started writing a future fiction screenplay about religious persecution and it was very stunning to find that way what he is thinking and feeling about his spiritual feelings. Allow exploration and talk about all diffrent religions just like everything else with our kidlets they will find their way so better to allow them all the information their brains are thirsting for.

I think agnosticism can be a great place. It sort of like exploring from neutral ground which lets you be open to all sorts of possibilities. I once saw a bumper sticker I thought was funny, "Militant Agnostic--I don't know and neither do you!" Personally, I thought about making a bumber sticker that said, "Religions are so cool--do I have to pick just one?"

Not that I am one, but Unitarian Universalists are open to seekers and people who don't want to get too pinned down.

LOL!

ROTFLSHIPMP!!!!!! I'll buy one of your bumper stickers :-)


Edit to add ..."Opps my Dogma just ate your Karma" is one of my favs too...

That is really funny!

Hi Ienjoysoup!

I think you seem familiar from Sally's forum?

My partner was quite taken with Buddhism after we went to a Buddha's birthday event, but in the end was concerned that he might feel pressured to give up sausages. People find spiritual fulfilment in different places, and he reckons agnosticism gives him more freedom to look for it in bangers and mash.

Hmm. I lived in Buddhist country (Theravada) for a while. Sausage-type food was definitely not an issue. Those folks ate anything (and a lot of their "anythings" were remarkably tasty). Perhaps the local Buddhists he met had their own ideas? Sometimes westerners who go Buddhist can be somewhat, ahem, enthusiastic in their approach.

Val

I'll suggest he re-opens his horizons and investigates pro-sausage buddhist groups...

well i like it for the philosopy and so... in my buddism, you can eat sausages!

(That sounds like another bumber sticker)

incogneto- you may have seen me there!

I think so. Welcome!

There's a lot of action over here! I've had to develop a strategy to skim through recent posts so I don't miss too much. Sometimes the posts fly so fast you can go through the first five pages and see that all the posts are within the last few hours.

Have fun, tons of great people and great resources here.

Neato

Vegetarianism and Buddhism have a complex relationship. Different areas and lineages will approach the problem differently. Also, there are different expectations for monk/nun and lay practitioners. Here is an excerpt from An Introduction to Buddhist Ethics by Harvey:



Typically,in most Buddhist countries monks are expected to eat whatever they are given on their alms rounds. So if they are given meat they eat it. They certainly would not kill the animal themselves and they should discourage someone else from killing an animal for them. The rules for lay people are even more relaxed.

I think regardless of whether one eats meat or not, the true spirit of Buddhism is to be appreciative of the lives that are sacrificed to make our meals possible. I think that sometimes that reverence will naturally lead to the desire to minimize life-taking and therefore becoming a vegetarian might be the next most logical step.

So your partner can eat his sausage, but only after he thanks the pig!

quote]

Interesting...How 'bout mosquitoes? Can you kill them? Maybe that's why there aren't too many Buddhists in MN.....

You can kill them, but then you will have to accept the karmic consequences.

One of my Buddhist Japanese friends who does flower arranging apologizes each time she cuts a flower from the plant. You may be able to mitigate some of the mosquito-killing karma by apologizing to the mosquito as you squash its little body, but your apology would have to be sincere!

OK, straying off topic here, but I'm curious. What do Buddhists think about modern medicine (specifically, taking antibiotics/antiviruses/chemicals to kill bacteria/viruses/cancer)?

I really like this line of thinking.


I love this line of thinking too, always taking it to the next level.

I'm not an authority on this by any means. And I expect that different teachers would approach this differently, especially because I am not sure if we can call microbes "sentient beings." But in general the principal is that one should be mindful of what one is doing when one takes an antibiotic, which is slaughtering billions of organisms. It may be worth it, but it is still regretable and is should be done with that awareness and avoided when unnecessary (which is really what the medical community has come to as well, which is that we should not overuse antibiotics). Of course, our immune systems in the course of a normal day are also slaughtering millions of organisms, too, and this can help us remember that life, by its very nature, comes at the expense of other life.

Phylum Bigots!!!

If vegetarians knew what really lived in the soil, they would cry everytime a seed was thrust into the ground.

I am serious.

I met Dr Elaine Ingham 7 years ago and got a lecture on the soil food web. There are literally millions of undiscovered species of microscopic organisms in the soil and the ocean. ( I have seen jars of unidentified white eyeless arthropods pulled from the soil in Texas that have no match. )

Some of the Arthropods in their dormant state can withstand temps > 300 degrees F ( near absolute zero ) and thousands of atmospheres of pressure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade

Tardigrades have been known to withstand the following extremes while in this state:

Temperature � tardigrades can survive being heated for a few minutes to 151�C or being chilled for days at -200�C, or for a few minutes at -272�C. (1� warmer than absolute zero).[11]

Pressure � they can withstand the extremely low pressure of a vacuum and also very high pressures, many times greater than atmospheric pressure. It has recently been demonstrated that tardigrades can survive the vacuum of open space and solar radiation combined for at least 10 days.[12]

Recent research has notched up another feat of endurance: they can withstand 6,000 atmospheres pressure, which is nearly six times the pressure of water in the deepest ocean trench. [13]

Dehydration - tardigrades have been shown to survive nearly one decade in a dry state.[14] Another researcher reported that a tardigrade survived over a period of 120 years in a dehydrated state, but soon died after 2 to 3 minutes.[15]

Subsequent research has cast doubt on its accuracy since it was only a small movement in the leg.[16]

Radiation � as shown by Raul M. May from the University of Paris, tardigrades can withstand 5,700 grays or 570,000 rads of x-ray radiation. (Ten to twenty grays or 1,000�2,000 rads could be fatal to a human). The only explanation thus far for this ability is that their lowered hydration state provides fewer reactants for the ionizing radiation.

Recent experiments conducted by Cai and Zabder have also shown that these tardigrades can undergo chemobiosis � a cryptobiotic response to high levels of environmental toxins. However, their results have yet to be verified.[17][18]

In September 2008, a space launch showed that tardigrades can survive the extreme environment of outer space for 10 days. After being rehydrated back on earth, over 68% of the subjects protected from high-energy UV radiation survived and many of these produced viable embryos, and a handful survived full exposure to the sun.[19]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_food_web

But the real question is....do they taste good?

LOL, SPG!

Tardigrades? They are on just about every piece of fresh vegetable.

I hear they taste like chicken. They go good with curry!

I certainly cannot speak for all vegetarians. But I think many Buddhists (regardless of whether vegetarian or not) are quite mindful of the lives of sacrificed so that we can eat. That is what I was getting at when I said



This certainly includes the insects, worms, and other organisms in the soil, as well as the plants themselves.

Shinran sent some beets with his servant on her day off to give her parents. When she returned she said that her parents thanked Shinran for the beets. Shinran was confused and said, "don't thank me; they should thank the beets!"

The Jainists are much more into avoiding taking life than the Buddhists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism

And I think the big point for Buddhists is not even so much about the specific lives, but the overall attitude of gratitude, humility, mindfulness of others and the general nature of life--that some must suffer and die for life to exist for others. One way (only one of many) that Buddhists reinforce those goals and their awareness of those truths is through apologies to those who suffer and die for human nourishment.

I think of it as being something akin to saying a prayer of thanks before a meal. This is like that gratitude, with the addition of an apology for the suffering we necessarily cause.

I think getting bogged down in the apology part of it rather misses the spiritual point...

Disclaimer: I'm FAR from an expert!

I think you're right; the attitude that comes from recognizing the causes and conditions that make one's life possible is one of gratitude and a desire to make one's own life meaningful, a sense of responsibility (not guilt) to keep the gifts of life moving. To receive and to give.

There is perhaps a parallel in Christianity. I think for some Christians, at least, the attitude of communion is gratitude. If Christ died for me, for my sins, then I feel awe and a debt of gratitude for that sacrifice and I want to do all I can to repay that love by loving others. This is generalizable to awe at creation itself and a recognition that we are responsible for taking care, as best we can, of what God has given us.

Buddhism and Christianity are not the same, but I think they both have much to teach us about being grateful.

Regardless of what religion DS is or follows or does not follow, I still think that mindfulness and gratitude are attributes I hope to be able to help instill in him. He has been very fortunate--I would like him to feel grateful, but not guilty.

I guess I'm feeling some responsibility to bring this all back to our kids. One of the rituals we have in our home is simply to say something we are grateful for at the beginning of each meal. We call it the "Happiness Game." If there is a God, I figure then God must hear this and be happy that we are counting our blessings. If there is no God, then we are still creating a grateful spirit in our home and that must have some practical benefits. Grateful people are often happier! I guess I'm saying that for our family this is a ritual that works well regardless of belief system and I haven't met anyone who was offended by it!

Hi Confused Mom,

You might want to take an age-appropriate book out of the library that explains all the religions and read it together, aloud. You could then discuss the the ideaologies and logistics of their solutions to the human condition.