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    I see your point, Bostonian, regarding fear of being asked to leave privates vs the obligation of publics to educate residents. Yet families who can afford to send their children to elite privates clearly still have more choices than those who cannot, including voting with their checkbooks (does anyone still use checks? voting with their EFTs?). As much as parents can freely express opinions to public schools without fear of having their children expelled, they also cannot take their tuition money and their child, and go to an institution that better aligns with their values (moral, philosophical, educational or other). (Comment: I alluded to school choice/school funding topics upthread, which I find to be a complex issue analytically, and one of ambivalence personally, as a public school educator myself. Not trying to start hares here.)


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    Originally Posted by aeh
    As much as parents can freely express opinions to public schools without fear of having their children expelled, they also cannot take their tuition money and their child, and go to an institution that better aligns with their values (moral, philosophical, educational or other).

    Exactly, it's downside management, not upside optimization.


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    Paying full tuition and having complained, privates will show you the door so fast. I have learned to just go with the flow. Parents are afraid to complain about anything and being asked to leave dd's school.

    And where in North America are public school teachers not unionized?

    And, in my experience and travels, I find the curriculum in SE Asian countries was way above and challenging compared to North America. Whether there is 60 kids in a class. I remember traveling in 1998 in Vietnam and high school students approaching me so they could practice their English. I remember having discussions with guides about their science curriculum.

    And when I we moved to Toronto, I just booked a private psychologist and had the testing done. And had a principal at a local school help me with the whole IEP. I am not good at waiting. Though the public gifted (in a good neighborhood) was awful. I should have put her in Montessori or something before she went private in 7th grade.


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    I agree that the net result of the system in many of the SE Asian countries is far and away more effective than in NA. It's just problematic from the standpoint of equity, since, in the countries I was referencing, those who can't pay for afterschooling really don't have full access to their teachers. From the angle of releasing market forces on the teachers who provide direct instruction, it could be an interesting analysis and discussion, especially in combination with conversations on unions.


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    I heard the red phone ringing on my long weekend of procrastination, and will dip into the success factors thread to provide a “critical discourse” (*snort*) on unionization’s effects on educational resourcing later with anyone interested!


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    I await your critical discourse with baited breath! See you on the other thread...


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    Originally Posted by aquinas
    Originally Posted by aeh
    As much as parents can freely express opinions to public schools without fear of having their children expelled, they also cannot take their tuition money and their child, and go to an institution that better aligns with their values (moral, philosophical, educational or other).

    Exactly, it's downside management, not upside optimization.
    Actually, various "School Choice" programs DO provide an opportunity for parents to take their tuition money and their child, and go to an institution that better aligns with their values.
    Originally Posted by EdChoice.Org
    There are many ways in which families can choose the best educational setting for their kids. Check out our Types of School Choice page to learn more about how different educational choice options are funded and how they work for families.
    That said, a family taking their tuition money and their child to another institution is dependent upon being able to find a school which better aligns with their values... which in turn depends upon the existence of a variety of distinguishable differences among schools.

    Meanwhile, it is my understanding that several private / independent schools are beginning to move toward grading policies which provide "equal outcomes." If private school families, out of fear of dismissal, do not successfully advocate to maintain schools which provide academic challenge at each pupil's zone of proximal development, as well as intellectual peers, then soon all schools may be indistinguishably similar, in capping the growth of students at the top, in order to eliminate achievement/performance/excellence gaps and provide equal outcomes.

    The gathering of parents to discuss their views, as presented in the OP's article, is key.

    Ultimately, the issue for many / most / all may be downside management, not upside optimization.

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    I have not heard of equal outcomes in private schools. I think they work with students so as to not have failures. But in my experience, it is easier to have equal outcomes in the public. One kid, 12th grade in the local public high school, had an 8% in math and the teacher let her to some worksheets to pull it up to a 50% in order to pass. Mother told me. She didn't think it was an issue. And the kid is going to university.

    Last edited by Wren; 03/15/21 04:32 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Wren
    I have not heard of equal outcomes in private schools.
    This may accelerate and become widespread with top-down pressure.

    For example, elite colleges/universities blacklisting private high schools who do not present a sufficiently diverse number of potential applicants.

    In actuality, or for appearances, elite employers could similarly blacklist colleges/universities who do not present a sufficiently diverse alumni pool.

    Not finding the old posts I'm seeking, at the moment. Therefore I may update this list later, meanwhile these old posts are somewhat related:
    - Jobs at elite firms (2015)
    - Students who get flushed along through the system and graduate without basic skills may also be employed alongside others in the workplace (2017)
    - there is a movement away from holding students accountable, and toward blaming the system (2020)

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    Sharing with the group an article from the Atlantic today titled, "Private Schools Have Become Truly Obscene", which may be of interest. The subhead is, "Elite schools breed entitlement, entrench inequality—and then pretend to be engines of social change." Note: the author formerly taught at Harvard-Westlake.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/04/private-schools-are-indefensible/618078/

    This instagram account (linked in the above article) provides posts by some of the dissenting parents - to provide more context:
    https://www.instagram.com/wokeathw/?hl=en


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