Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion New here. gifted or high achiever

Hi everyone- I have really enjoyed reading the posts the past few days. I have 4 kids and the two oldest have been identified by the school as gifted. First my DS 11 in second grade and now my DS 9 a few weeks ago. The score does not give out test scores but I was verbally told they both scored in the 99% on the CogAT. DS11 also took the Raven and was in the 98%. Not sure on what else DS 9 took. My question is are these test really reliable indicators or are the schools just looking for high achievers. They do not seem like they are gifted but do seem to pick up things at a faster rate. DS 9 was diagnosed with high functioning ASD this year. He started having trouble socially (no friends at school and would rather hang out with the teacher during recess), perfectionism, very sensitive and rule follower. If they happen to be gifted is it possible my DS 9 was misdiagnosed? The ASD traits seem to be similar to gifted traits. This is all confusing to me. Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!

Generally speaking, it is more likely that a child will produce a low estimate of ability on a test than that an overestimate of ability will be generated. The CogAT is a reasonable screener for high ability, and usually does a good job of not creating false positives, but is known to miss some very high ability students (false negatives), especially those with highly divergent thinking styles.

As to whether the school is looking for high achievers...that is another question altogether, and best answered by looking at what GT programming consists of in your district. Is it faster, deeper, more creative, or just more volume of the same lower-level work, with extra executive functioning and output demands?

I'd argue that distinction speaks to whether its a good program in general and applies to everyone. I can't imagine anyone wanting or needing more volume of lower-level work.

Thank you for the resource! I am going to get that book. I tried to talk to DS9's therapist but he had no idea what I was talking about.

I agree that it there is so much overlap it is difficult to tell. As a therapist, I always look at symptoms when the person is in their fitting environment, not when they are in an environment that doesn't match. Many gifted kids are going to have social deficits in a typical classroom because they don't think the same way as most other kids. If you observe him in a group of equally gifted children and he still is not interacting well, then you may be looking at ASD. You can also look at the MCHAT assessment and think back to when he was 2-y/o and if he matched some of those characteristics for ASD before a same-age peer environment was an issue.

When he was diagnosed with ASD, was it through the school or through your medical provider? Did they talk any more about therapy, like ABA therapy, and is it covered under your medical insurance? My son is 7, and he gets 12 hrs of ABA therapy a week. They mainly go through social skills, and they practice a lot of verbal communication. So with your son, it depends on why he doesn't have friends. Is it because there's no one he can relate to, like all the other boys are talking about Pokemon, and he doesn't want to? Or he does want to do stuff with other kids, but he gets stuck trying to communicate (feels shy, gets tongue tied, etc?)

Thank you for your feedback twallace. This may sound bad but l really don't remember DS9 at age 2 when looking at the MCHAT. He was a very easy 2 year old and would play by himself quietly. I think I was so distracted by his very active big brother I did not pay enough attention to him. We noticed some social issues around first grade. He stopped playing with friends at recess and started sneaking inside back in the classroom. He would complain about all the rules and kids not following the rules such as in a game of tag on the playground. He also started wearing his hood up in social settings like the playground or new places and/or people. This continued to second and now third grade he has no friends at school. He plays by himself and usually makes up games in his head. He has been in a friendship group all year but still no friends. On sport teams he also does not socially interact with others and has never made any friends from the teams. I have not observed him yet with a group of gifted peers so not sure if he would be different in that setting. He does interact just fine with his siblings and has two friends outside of school that he has known since he was a toddler. He enjoys anything related to science and shares this interest with his two friends outside of school.

Hm. That you describe it as he stopped playing with friends, rather than did not play, suggests that there are other classifications that might be worth exploring. For example, social anxiety. Or social pragmatic communication. Or an unidentified learning issue, in combination with high ability (i.e., 2e), that contributes to anxiety. Or, as several have mentioned, the lack of a peer group. (Of course, none of us here have seen him, vs the professionals who diagnosed him, but there is plenty of discussion about the challenges of differential diagnosis in the field.) it doesn't sound like his Dx of ASD was in the context of a comprehensive neuro/psychological eval, or you would have had individual cognitive assessments to cross reference with the CogAT scores. This may be something worth pursuing.

Maybe he's a gifted high achiever... The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Thanks so much for the feedback aeh. Yes DS9 had two friends in kindergarten and he stopped playing with anyone in the first grade. I was concerned that DS9 may have a learning issue. He has always been slow to complete his work especially in writing and on art projects at school. I think part is because he is such a perfectionist and being detailed oriented. He did not even complete the CogAT so I was surprised he tested at a 99%. He tested very high on a reading achievement as well which also qualified him in the gifted program at school. In second grade DS9 had the biggest struggles. His teacher complained he did not finish any of his writing assignments, slow to complete work and was not responding to him at times in class. DS9 was caught by the teacher trying to finish his project in class during recess and was disciplined. This was a breaking point for DS9. He started having daily shut downs at school and at home and was refusing to go to school. I asked the teacher if he could have a learning disability such as in writing and he did not agree with this. I had DS9 tested privately for a writing disability but it was determined he did not have one. The tester noted he had an odd pencil grip. Testing was very brief only on area of writing. I could not afford further testing.
DS9 does have some anxiety issues and has some intense fears such as of germs and heights. He also has strange habits such as having to touch the rug at home three times every time he is near it. I got a referral through is pcp for a therapist for anxiety and the therapist recommended testing for ASD. This was done by a developmental-behavioral pediatrician and he gave him a diagnosis after an interview and reviewing some forms completed by the teacher and parents. Who completes a neuro/psychological eval? Do you think this could be covered by insurance? Can I request this from his developmental-behavioral pediatrician? Thank you.