Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 275 guests, and 29 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    Emerson Wong, Markas, HarryKevin91, Gingtto, SusanRoth
    11,429 Registered Users
    May
    S M T W T F S
    1 2 3 4
    5 6 7 8 9 10 11
    12 13 14 15 16 17 18
    19 20 21 22 23 24 25
    26 27 28 29 30 31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 1 of 2 1 2
    #23274 08/19/08 07:45 PM
    Joined: Nov 2007
    Posts: 864
    Q
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    Q
    Joined: Nov 2007
    Posts: 864
    Just confirmed that the following district GT policy is followed at what would be DS8's next public school (grades 3-4). We plan to HS, but if something comes up or if it doesn't work, I wanted to know what our options are. Also, our plan is that he return to the district in a year or two, so I wanted to figure out the best time for him to return.

    Quote
    Elementary Enrichment Program Model


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In grades K-5, the enrichment program model is grounded in Differentiation of Instruction, which is a philosophy of instruction and a set of methods with the goal of meeting the diverse instructional needs of students in a heterogeneous environment. Identified students are clustered in several classrooms at each grade level, meaning approximately five students are placed in each enrichment classroom. There will be several formal enrichment classrooms at each grade level. While enrichment activities regularly occur for all students in all classroom as part of the regular curriculum, this grouping model provides the classroom teacher with a small group of students with exceptional abilities in a regular classroom to engage in enrichment activities. Members of an enrichment group might work on a collaborative enrichment project or individual students might work on enrichment opportunities. Other strategies used might include tailored curriculum or assignments, portfolios, centers, the use of technology, or independent projects. Ask your child�s teacher about these strategies. Classroom teachers are provided intensive and ongoing staff development to help them effectively differentiate instruction in mixed-ability classrooms.


    Could this be made to work? (And when I am lucky enough to have a family consultant, this will be among the first questions I ask.)

    See, it's questions with questions again. confused

    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 2,231
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 2,231
    Oh Questions!!!!!!

    It sounds good, but you know. It's always dependent upon the principal, then each indvidual teacher.

    It sounds like you have a solid plan for now. You can always enroll him when it suits and try it out. I don't think you'll really know if the program works well until you're in it.

    The great thing is that no plan is final, you can change it up as needed. I'm a little negative on the school theory vs. reality issue, so please forgive and take comments with a grain or two of salt!

    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,145
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,145
    Ditto what 'Neato said. Every last word.

    I'm always skeptical of in-class differentiation. When it works, the good done can be undone the following year when the child is effectively held back. When it doesn't work, it's boredom and repetition for a whole year. I think it's a lousy policy. Better than nothing, but only sometimes, and then often not very much better than nothing. I want more!

    The grouping sounds nice, but only if they actual do something with the groups. And, as 'Neato said, that all comes down to the teacher and the school.

    It's worth a try if you think it's going to be a better solution than other solutions. Trust your gut.


    Kriston
    Joined: Nov 2007
    Posts: 864
    Q
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    Q
    Joined: Nov 2007
    Posts: 864
    You're right about this.

    Quote
    As for the policy, it's textbook perfect. It has all the right catch phrases to put out the illusion of workability.


    Check it out:

    Quote
    Guiding Principles of the Student Enrichment Program


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    [School district] embraces six basic learning principles that drive the elementary student enrichment program. These principles are reflected in all aspects of the program design.

    All learners require special accommodations to meet their educational needs.

    Learners with exceptional abilities have different learning needs that require specialized educational opportunities.

    Learners with exceptional abilities can be characterized by evidence of behaviors derived from high ability, critical and creative thinking and task commitment.

    Academically talented learners benefit from the opportunity to work with students of similar abilities and/or interests and at other times in heterogeneous groups.

    Enrichment programs should encourage initiative, goal-setting, and freedom to take risks.

    Critical thinking and problem solving should be a primary objective of curriculum and instruction for all children.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    District Philosophy of Student Enrichment

    Every student should be provided with experiences that promote critical thinking, problem solving, reasoning and communication in ways that are appropriately challenging. Many students demonstrate a mastery of the objectives of the basic curriculum and need additional enrichment. Enrichment activities either extend the curriculum into new areas or provide a greater depth of treatment in the existing curriculum.

    While classroom enrichment activities are a normal part of the instructional program for all students, the needs of students with exceptional abilities should be provided for through appropriate placement, grouping strategies and individually structured learning plans. The identification of students with exceptional abilities should be multi-faceted, relying on a variety of assessment procedures. Students with exceptional abilities often learn earlier, faster, and/or differently. They benefit from working with other students who have similar abilities as well as sharing in the interactions of heterogeneous groups. Specialized learning opportunities are necessary to enable students with exceptional abilities to meet their potential.


    I tried last year to get GT accommodation in his IEP to no avail, and almost lost the IEP altogether. With about 20 third grade classes, there's no guarantee on teacher, and in class differentiation is clearly teacher dependent.

    As for other parents, I'm told by parents working on the fledgling GT advocacy efforts that the GT policy in our district is that there is no GT. Which means, you're right:
    Quote
    The policy in itself is worth virtually nothing.


    And Kriston, yes, we are definitely HSing this year, but I wanted to know if we have options if our teacher becomes unavailable (I'm working). I don't think it's the year to go back in district.

    Thanks for the opinions. I figured someone here could share his or her experience.

    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 3,298
    Val Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 3,298
    Call me a cynic, but I've always believed that "differentiation" is a lot of handwaving intended to sound good and avoid extra effort. Saying that "all learners require special accomodations" is a way of dismissing the needs of the very bright ones.

    I just learned about a local kid going into 5th grade who works at a 2nd-3rd grade level. She was supposed to have an IEP in 4th (this was last October) and when the parents went to the 1st PT meeting in November, they were told everything was okay. At the next one in April, they learned that nothing had happened since October. The teacher said "I forgot." The parents have been, ahem, advocating firmly, ahem, since then.

    I don't know about others, but I had kind of thought that once slow learners get IDed as needing an IEP, things work out better because the help system is already in place. I was naively assuming that IEP problems experienced by people on this list were due to the schools not recognizing GTness in the 2E kids.

    <sigh>

    Val

    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,145
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 6,145
    I know there are some teachers who differentiate and do so very well. But I also know there are many who do NOT!

    My big problem with it is on a policy level. If differentiation is an "in addition to" deal, then I think it's great. But if all there is for GT kids is in-class differentiation, then it just leaves them too much at the mercy of the whims of the particular teacher. I think we have to demand policies that have more teeth and don't allow a teacher--any teacher!--to "forget" or to refuse to give kids what they need.

    Sorry to get on a soapbox on your thread, questions. But I just really feel that differentiaion--while a lifesaver in the case of certain kids with conscientious teachers--is a lousy, lousy choice for GT policy. Anytime I see it written into policy, I get cranky! mad I want more!!!


    Kriston
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 3,298
    Val Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 3,298
    Originally Posted by Kriston
    Ditto what 'Neato said. Every last word.

    I'm always skeptical of in-class differentiation. When it works, the good done can be undone the following year when the child is effectively held back. When it doesn't work, it's boredom and repetition for a whole year. I think it's a lousy policy. Better than nothing, but only sometimes, and then often not very much better than nothing. I want more!

    This was happening with my eldest last year until we intervened, but it took some effort to fix it. It also happened to me when I was a kid --- I expect a lot of people here went through this. I guess I'm trying to say that it's been going on for a long time.

    In Feb. last year, my son was given +1 books to work in, and he did the work totally independently. No one thought it odd that he was getting 100% on most of the exercises, with no instruction whatsoever.

    Has anyone here ever encountered this odd attitude? Why do teachers react this way?

    Val

    Joined: Jul 2007
    Posts: 198
    M
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    M
    Joined: Jul 2007
    Posts: 198
    DS6 was "differentiated" in Kindergarten. It consisted of them handing him some logic puzzles, never explaining them to him, marking his answers wrong and putting them in a folder. They were handed to me as further proof that he wasn't gifted.

    They had differentiated grouped reading, but DS was moved from the top group to the middle group because it didn't occur to the teacher that a child shouldn't regress in his reading.

    The one thing they did that I thought was going to be great was to create a program for the Kindergartners. There were 6 students and they were working on individual research projects. It was supposed to be worked on in class when he had time on his hands. I really was excited about it and was very happy with their effort. Until DS6 and I stumbled upon the book the GT teacher had given him for his research. It was a book about sea horses (the topic he picked) with 4 words per page, 10 pages total. No wonder he kept coming home asking me questions about sea horses and then rolling his eyes when I asked him what his research book said.

    In my experience, it is very easy for the teacher to make differentiation worse than no accommodation, especially if they don't believe there is a need for it. In our case, the differentiation that was offered made things worse because he was being given things that might have been interesting but no one would tell him what they were or give him the tools to properly complete the project ("See what you're missing out on by sitting through counting to 100 and learning what 'P' says?").

    Joined: Nov 2007
    Posts: 864
    Q
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    Q
    Joined: Nov 2007
    Posts: 864
    Interesting, Val, as last year, DS's teachers complained that DS wanted their help on some of his challenge math problems. I was floored - just because he already knows what they're already teaching doesn't mean he's not entitled to be taught something. Either way, it's not good. They just figured they didn't have to worry about your son, but he was getting shortchanged, too.

    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 3,298
    Val Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 3,298
    Originally Posted by Kriston
    Sorry to get on a soapbox on your thread, questions. But I just really feel that differentiaion--while a lifesaver in the case of certain kids with conscientious teachers--is a lousy, lousy choice for GT policy. Anytime I see it written into policy, I get cranky! mad I want more!!!

    I totally agree. As a policy, it's a lousy idea. And to be fair to the teachers, it probably makes their lives difficult too. Ability grouping would be s-o-o-o much easier on everyone.

    I taught a hands-on science class at a local college last winter. My students were as heterogenous as any group you'd find in a public school class. I worked very hard at finding new tasks for the ones who were ahead and struggled to meet the needs of the slower learners. That course was three hours of pure exhaustion twice a week, but I felt that I had a responsibility to the students.

    Keep ranting Kriston!!

    Val

    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 3,298
    Val Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 3,298
    Originally Posted by questions
    Interesting, Val, as last year, DS's teachers complained that DS wanted their help on some of his challenge math problems. I was floored - just because he already knows what they're already teaching doesn't mean he's not entitled to be taught something. Either way, it's not good. They just figured they didn't have to worry about your son, but he was getting shortchanged, too.

    Hmm. I think you (and mamaandmore in her post) hit on an important part of the problem there. Some teachers see that a child gets everything right without help on some things, assume that he can get everything right all the time, and kids don't get to be TAUGHT anything.

    Val

    Joined: Jun 2008
    Posts: 412
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Jun 2008
    Posts: 412
    Quote
    Sorry to get on a soapbox on your thread, questions. But I just really feel that differentiaion--while a lifesaver in the case of certain kids with conscientious teachers--is a lousy, lousy choice for GT policy. Anytime I see it written into policy, I get cranky! I want more!!!

    I couldn't agree more with the posts here. Your first quote about the district's enrichment policy could have been cut and pasted from our school's policy. Our school uses the term "differentiation" in glowing terms, as if it is grandest thing for gifted kids. It is the magic salve which fixes everything. In reality, I have tried for two years to find evidence of differentiation: how often it is applied, how much my son is getting out of it, etc.

    The only concrete example that I've observed is that the school uses it to described grouping kids into different levels for reading. There may be three groups of kids in a class (6 per group) who are reading at different levels. (slow=half a grade behind, medium= on grade level, and fast= half a grade above) Great. So my son is placed in the fast reading group with five other kids. But this does nothing for a kid who is reading two to three levels above his current grade level.

    I have never seen differentiation stretch more than half a grade in any subject matter, for fear of stepping on the next grade teacher's toes. For most of the moderately gifted kids, this is a welcome and appropriate stretch for them. It does not work for kids that need more than that half a grade bump. frown

    Our school also has pullout classes (half and hour per week for math, and half an hour for high IQ... 129 or above.) The gifted teacher seems to believe that the kids should not do anything that might let them race too far ahead academically for fear of lightly dancing anywhere near the next grade teacher's toes. So they stick to very safe, non-academic topics. (with heavy emphasis on social development and leadership roles.) frown


    Mom to DS12 and DD3
    Joined: Apr 2008
    Posts: 257
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Apr 2008
    Posts: 257
    Really, in a classroom of 25+ kids, 1 teacher, and no aide (typical class size in our district - and I'm assuming most districts), I'm thinking best case scenario for differentiation is the kid will be pulled aside to do work autonomously with no guidance from even a well-meaning teacher. DS6's K teacher balked at giving him anything different from the rest of the class. DS would have loved to escape the tedium and go to a corner and read, do worksheets, etc. on his own. I think in-class differentiation would probably work best with "acceleration" vs. "enrichment" simply because progress is more easily measured. Maybe you could think of some concrete differentiated activities your DS would benefit from and ask the school/district if he could be provided with those. For example, could he be pulled out for self-paced computer learning? Could he have time set aside to do math worksheets that increase in difficulty (i.e., accelerate) as he gets a certain percentage correct?

    Page 1 of 2 1 2

    Moderated by  M-Moderator 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Beyond IQ: The consequences of ignoring talent
    by Eagle Mum - 05/03/24 07:21 PM
    Technology may replace 40% of jobs in 15 years
    by brilliantcp - 05/02/24 05:17 PM
    NAGC Tip Sheets
    by indigo - 04/29/24 08:36 AM
    Employers less likely to hire from IVYs
    by Wren - 04/29/24 03:43 AM
    Testing with accommodations
    by blackcat - 04/17/24 08:15 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5