Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Bright three year old cannot count past four

Thanks for your observations. Just to be clear, he leaves five out but often (but not always!) knows that 6, 7 and 8 come next. But he doesn't get to ten and instead starts to repeat numbers at random after 8 or 9. My older son also skipped 13 for a while but he could count to much higher numbers (I think he had a hard time pronouncing it). This one seems like he cannot really count to ten. In fact, he cannot consistently and accurately count past four. We will continue to practice counting as it comes up but I find it so odd that, of all things, this won't stick.

For what it's worth, he seems to get other age appropriate math concepts. He has one to one correspondence and can manipulate numbers up to five. He can even add three numbers that have a sum of five (he often tells me that 2+2+1=5). He can identify most numbers up to 100 (he loves to look at book page numbers and identify them). The problem seems to be remembering a sequence of numbers or something like that.

I think with most kids it is the opposite. They are very good at reciting the string of numbers, but have no idea what it means.

My son couldn't count reliably to ten (or beyond, for that matter) until he was 7. He also had trouble with other sequences (days of the week, months of the year, the alphabet). He is has dyslexia.

Just want to mention that none of these are age-appropriate math concepts--they're all well above chronological age level!

This. It sounds to me like he gets what numbers mean (they represent quantity) and has a natural feel for how they can work together to figure out other quantities and patterns and representations. He's just not too good with their names yet.

DS8 has always been fluid with what numbers represent and are for. Based on his experience, the only red flag I see for your DS is - watch out for Common Core in early elementary! DS has broken pencils, shredded paper and bellowed in frustration at questions like "how did you figure out that 9+7 = 16?" In his words - "I didn't FIGURE IT OUT. It just IS!!!" (Visualize fist pounding table).

Side note - I'm actually not bashing Common Core here. It's an OK system for teaching what numbers actually MEAN to children (and teachers) whose brains don't have that innate sense hard-wired from the get go. But it's pull your hair out annoying to those kids who do. And honestly, beyond a certain level of brute force mechanical learning, I think if it's not in there, you can't force it into existence, using any teaching system.

Mine always claimed he quessed. It was a problem when teachers unfamiliar with him took him at his word. Mostly after he had "guessed" correctly 20 times in a row they worked it out.

How if your son's speech and articulation? On par or better/worse than your older's?

With your son's good number sense, I'm wondering if the problem isn't related to speech. My oldest also skipped a number (seven I think) for quite a while, and he's now the math whiz of the school. He had lots of articulation problems that didn't really clear up until age 3, so the effort in making sounds probably made "remembering" the simple order more challenging. His memory is stellar now, by the way, for everything except spellings, as he struggles with writing.

Little brother had very clear speech from very early and counted much higher much earlier. I don't think the difference results from that dramatic of a cognitive difference, but from the advantages of mastering good speech early.

@Diana- his speech is great- precise, large vocabulary, etc. He's very verbal and chatty. My older son was similar but he had a hard time pronouncing "thirteen" it sounded like "firteen" and he started to leave it out altogether. I don't think it's a speech problem for this one.

My DD who just turned 8 is highly capable in math had a similar problem when she was 5. I did not teach her how to count much less add when she was little but the summer before kinder, I decided to go through 1 to 100 with her. She had taught herself how to count, add/subtract, simple multiplication and division, but for some reason could not count past 39..she would go from 38, 39 then 90 and miss out all the numbers between. It was bizarre and it took her a little while but ultimately it was some of sort of glitch that worked itself out. Now she is about 4 to 5 years ahead in math and has excellent algebraic reasoning, understands concepts extremely quickly and often times instinctively. She does have an odd habit of substituting numbers or words sometimes when she talks, but she is also verbally gifted and scored above 99.9% on expressive language on the WIAT so I have no idea what that is about.


Suev, I wanted to say that this is EXACTLY how DD was in kinder and 1st grade and and ultimately the reason we pulled her out to homeschool. I agree, common core is good for most kids in expanding their understanding of the whys in mathematics, but horribly slow for mathy kids who have great math reasoning to begin with.

Hmmm, it was a thought. On the plus side, you can understand him well (which I'd rate higher than remembering number 4 on the scale of importance!).