Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Easing Pressure on Students Bares Ethnic Divide

if it were me, I would not want to stand out in a highly talented orchestra by playing wrong notes with wrong timing and ruining the whole performance because I wanted to exercise my "right to squeak". I would feel worried about ruining the hard work of other talented and hard working kids by screwing up their good performance with my incompetence. I also don't want to feel unwelcome in a place that I do not belong in. There is a place for everyone in this world and not all of us need to be in a public performance of a school orchestra.

I think that is part of the reasoning behind requiring some minimal competence on a piece. When everyone does some minimal practice, the whole band or orchestra is elevated and there is group pride. There are district-wide bands and orchestras at both middle and high school levels and the support for them stems partly from the results observed at individual school bands and orchestras over the decades - when one or more students earn spots in these, their classmates are motivated to improve as well. Of course, I am in a district of well over 100,000 students with a couple of dozen middle schools alone.

I think that is partly why a lot more 6th graders are caught doing this and many of them leave by the next year.

DD attends a middle school with multiple bands at multiple levels. You have to test in to the next level band, but there are no requirements for individual pieces. I will say it again--I completely oppose restricting music education to certain students. 100% against. I am completely fine with ensembles at different levels, but everyone who wants to particpate should have the right to do so. As a matter of fact, I wish sports were run this way as well, with casual intramural sports available to kids who just want to play for fun. Kids like DD who are not really athletic (nor inclined to focus on sports) but enjoy playing team sports for fun have no good outlet when team rec sports age out around 12. This type of thing used to exist. Why does every darn thing have to be so serious? I support in-depth programs for those with the interest and dedication, but let the rest of the kids dabble and enjoy. You actually don't know who may eventually emerge as devoted in the long run. I have a child who is not musically gifted in the typical sense but who shows an intriguingly creative response to music and, more than that, an interest and love (she will sit and listen to a whole album on headphones with deep concentration) that may yet keep her playing long past the time when natural technical talents give up their instruments. (ETA: FWIW, DD practices religiously, so she would certainly pass any test on her musical pieces...this is not sour grapes. ;))

I don't think anyone assumes it's sour grapes and there must certainly be parents who agree with you that kids should always be allowed to perform every piece with their band or orchestra - otherwise why would the district in the original post institue a mandatory "right to squeak" ?

By the way, kudos to your DD for practicing religiously. I really wish I can say the same for DD and DS - they obviously do practice but they successfully skate by too often. That is one reason why this "right to squeak" horrifies me. Interestingly, I am speaking from the perspective of a parent of a student who was cut from a piece (actually about 1/2 of one piece). DS is the best player (on his instrument) in his grade at school and was invited to join the school honors group (for 7th & 8th graders) at the beginning of 6th grade. Just prior to their first concert of the year, I happened to look over his music and noticed that about 1/2 of one piece was marked "rest". It was a difficult section but not something he couldn't have performed with a moderate amount of practice. He explained that the group hadn't had a lot of time to work on that piece together during practice and he forgot to put in the time to get it right so after the last rehearsal the teacher told him (and other unprepared kids) to not play that section. It made complete sense to DS (and me) and he has been more vigilant about keeping track of music for upcoming performances. I think he would have been stressed and embarrassed if he had been expected to fumble through the section and likely mess up the piece for the other students.

I think music is one of those areas that some people take seriously and others don't or perhaps can't even see why. It's good that people disagree - otherwise, it gets boring pretty fast. For example, I don't take sports seriously at all and I know there are people ready to wrestle me to the ground over that.

We are in a district that actually requires music education for every single student in elementary and middle school. Once you are in high school, only one year is required. However, in middle school, it is up to the band and orchestra teachers to listen to a student play before letting him into an instrumental music class (divided by grade level) unless the students have participated in an elementary school band or orchestra in our district. All other students have two choices: they may register for chorus if they want to sing; otherwise they register for world music if they like to read about and listen to music instead. The one thing I do not like about our system is that a student can be potentially shut out from instrumental music (other than guitar or keyboard in high school) by 6th grade unless they make an effort. For example, DD has a classmate who asked the teacher for help to learn an instrument and he practiced regularly and was let into the 7th grade class the following fall. If our school grouped by skill rather than grade, then there could potentially be a beginning class that could be joined by any grade level.

I guess I might not feel as strongly about performance being up to snuff in an auditioned group. But it comes down again to my feeling that everyone who wants to sing or play music ought to be allowed to. I don't like your district's system. DD (6th) just took up an instrument this year...she didn't want to previously, and I feel this was actually the right time for her. I have not had to bug her to practice at all. Band is fun and rewarding, and she is mature enough to have picked up her instrument easily and met with success. She was in chorus (no audition) before, and although she does not sing well and they practiced minimally, I think it prepared her nicely for this step up.

I have to say, as a middle of the road player in a large band, I would just "fake it" when I knew I didn't have a section mastered.

My child is pretty good and plays viola in the 7th grade orchestra. (Apparently viola is not that competitive- there are a million cellos and violins but only a few violas). He was named first chair of the 10 violas and invited to be in a special quartet, run by the conductor. (he is the only hearing impaired kid in the orchestra!).
The two violins and 1 cello were phenomenal- they were all Chinese-American, practiced at least 3 hours a day (their moms told me), and have played since age 4. My son is pretty good and was clearly the weakest player, although he got a lot better.
I can see what they are saying- orchestra in our area is super, super competitive and the kids/parents are not always very nice. My son learned a lot and would do it again BUT he hated being around the other kids and their parents, who were freakishly, bizarrely competitive and often jerks...

This rings so true to me and my DD is only 5!

In our district, high school orchestras have a few levels. The higher levels are audition-based, and the lowest level is for anyone who wants to play music. In middle school and elementary school, there is just one orchestra for everyone, so the very advanced players go to youth orchestras elsewhere (such as those offered by professional orchestras and university-based youth orchestras).

It's like math. Of course everyone who wants to learn should have the opportunity. But if there is only one level of offering, either the best students will seek resources elsewhere, or the slowest students are left behind. Parents on this forum would be very frustrated if their kids are in a school where all kids have to learn math at the same pace. But this is the same if all kids have to be in the same orchestra learning the same pieces. My two kids are both awesome musicians and they have both felt that their elementary and middle school orchestras were really boring. The key is to make sure that kids at all levels can learn and can be challenged. I see this the same way whether we talk about music, math or sports.

This has been roughly the story of DD's life in a lot of different extracurriculars, actually. It's exactly what comes of living in a place like the one described in the OP, or in Palo Alto, etc. There are a distressing number of such places in the United States now.