Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Easing Pressure on Students Bares Ethnic Divide

I think Val is right-- COLLEGES have to step up. Because UM is also right-- as long as there is a gold ring, parents are going to keep eyeing that prize.

I worry that limits to keep things sane will only make some parents that much crazier to push on stuff they still control, though.

It's interesting, the number of people in my DD's "elite" group of highly credentialed high school classmates (she didn't go to the local-local high school, by the way, but an online one)-- only one of them in her year in the top 10 wound up GOING to an Ivy or Elite college. Only two in the year before her. (Vassar and Princeton). These were her cohort-- all of them highly capable, btw, as one of them is apparently already going after a Rhodes now. ALL of them got into elite schools. ALL of them.


My point is that MOST of those students opted to choose the solid, but less flashy, route through college-- public universities with pretty elite honors programs, private schools which are less well-known, that sort of thing. Many of them got full merit scholarships at those institutions, and are thriving there.


I personally am now convinced that as hard as it is, the real solution lies in more parents waking up and smelling the coffee in this way-- saying, hey wait-a-minute, this is NUTS. There is a great college just an hour away, you don't have to live your life doing a high-wire act for ten years when you should be enjoying your youth, and you'll be able to find your people there and in grad school, and it won't saddle you with half a lifetime of debt servitude, either. Enjoy {activity-that-has-no-resume-value}, kiddo.

I knew that things were very, very warped when DD somehow gathered the notion in fifth grade that she needed, at just 8 years old, to know "what she planned to do with her life," and worried that adding a second musical instrument might "not look as good as the focus on {primary instrument}." Yowza. This is stuff that she was picking up on from her friends' families, who very much follow that grabbing-at-the-ring approach. I knew that we needed to reevaluate when we began thinking of missing activities as a trade off between parenting and discipline, and making her miss things that had resume potential. (Yeah-- ouch. No, we eventually chose that missing the line item was the right thing if she needed to be disciplined.)


Those are the kinds of things that parents really do think in places like this, though. The judgment from others is HARSH. Acceleration, even, is seen as push-parenting (possible abuse) by some, and as a coveted prize (how did you get them to do that? Who made the decision? What's the secret??) by others.

It isn't about gifted programming. That's merely one of the many tools in the over-zealous parenting arsenal. If the level of busy-work involved in my DD's high school classes was any indication, there are simply a lot of kids being PUSHED to do things that they are utterly unsuited for. She sees them in college, too. They live with continuous shame and guilt that they aren't living up to their parents' expectations of them. It's incredibly sad.

For the record, Jon's post pretty much says-- more tongue in cheek, to be sure-- what mine does.

My DD16 regularly talks to me about this. Some of her college friends despair of their chances to "make it" in life... as in, measure up to what they envision "success" looking like. They are frantic to do more-more-more-more-more. They have a competitive mindset, and they live in a sort of paranoid fervor of needing to "outcompete" everyone for-- well, The Prize.

Then there are those who realize that success doesn't look the same for everyone. There is a path that takes you through life that doesn't involve dollar signs, and it's a lot easier and for a lot of people, it makes you feel better along the way.

I know, about admissions. But if more than a few high-profile, super-competitive high schools started limiting, then the metric would start to fall apart. Of course, you might be right that it would then be gamed a different way.

I have been finding this story fascinating because that district came to "this" so much earlier and now, IMO, they are seeing the madness of "this" earlier, too. Of course, not everyone agrees.

I think the goal is to become a Rhodes Colossus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rhodes_Colossus

It's a prisoners' dilemma. Unless mutual non-escalation can be externally and effectively enforced, competition at all costs will persist because it's incentive compatible.

Ah Spaghetti, so sorry☹.

I think gifted humanities students are by far the most neglected, at least in our experience. My kids participate in STEM-type extracurricular activities because that is what is available. They have certainly enjoyed these activities, but were never given the opportunity for challenge or in-depth exploration of humanities areas. Who knows what would happen if schools paid equal attention to humanities? Oh, that's right- kids can read on their own at home.

Spaghetti, for what it's worth, some of the kids in our high school's science research program are doing social science research. I wonder if a solution could be negotiated that your daughter would enjoy. This program really has been freeing in letting my kid dive in deeply (very deeply) into something she's passionate about with guidance of a teacher and a mentor. I know it doesn't solve the problem with the other 7 classes on the schedule, but it's helped here.

It's not a zero sum game. People are going to compete for college admissions seats in some way. Why is doing so by taking more Advanced Placement classes worse than striving in extracurriculars (especially sports) or relying on parental connections? Students who do well in lots of AP classes are learning things. They can save themselves and their parents a lot of money if they use their credits to graduate from college in three years. I did.

Most students may not want to take 5 AP classes in one year, but capable students should not be prevented from doing so.

I am chuckling at your "right to squeak." DD has played violin for three years and is slack when it comes to practice. She is however a gifted musician who has close to perfect intonation (both when she sings and when she plays). She generally gets twice the results out of half the work and has earned a higher chair in the junior orchestra that she plays in despite other students working much harder. I am a little on the fence about this one, if knocking her down a peg would encourage her to practice more, I think I might be all for it

When I was in elementary school our choir was audition only. There were twenty spots ten boys and ten girls. It was when I originally realized that I might actually be an ok singer. I went on to participate in many other choirs that had required auditions. My best friend did not get picked and that was awkward. Honestly, I think children not being able to do things is fine. Not everyone meets requirements for a school's gifted program in elementary school and that is ok. Some people are just musically talented and some are not.