Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Please advise me- 2 high school kids involved

Good point! So I think Calculus will be our primary focus, because I don't think they can rationalize not letting him attend a private university for Calc. Then it should be easier to explain why he wants to attend physics and English at the college.



We DO have free high school courses available online. The issue with this is the waste of time for unnecessary work.
The counselor would like them to take their regular courses (AP and college) AND do the high school English and math online AND take all of the other required classes for a high school diploma that were not requirements in CA. (Health, geography, financial lit, computer technology, etc...)
I totally understand the diploma subject requirements, and my 12th grade daughter has been working on them, but why the additional English, math, and sciences? By having received A's in them and higher level classes at a college and proving it on tests at the state college here, why would she have to take something like high school freshman and sophomore English? Algebra II or Precalc? She has taken all of these at the college, with the college classes including College Algebra and Precalc (exact matches to me), and the English being college-level English classes. (BTW, her college GPA is a 3.88)

She has a full course load making up the high school general requirements and taking several AP and college classes (finishing her AA). They are trying to (successfully)force her to repeat classes on the side (online or at school), just because she took the subjects (or higher levels of them) at a college and not at a high school.



Wow! Thanks for sharing this. I was exactly planning on doing this - going to meetings, talking to the very weak connections in the district that I have, giving up my time many times over. Ultimately, I'd like to straighten this out for others that follow. I know that the public schools are to allow them to learn at their demonstrated level and not below, especially if the opportunity is there. I thought I read this somewhere. Anyway, I'll post what occurs and look forward to any other advice. It's been very helpful and calming, knowing there is support online.

Catana - Thanks for advising me on CLEP. i'm looking more closely at this now.

However, it isn't just financing the first two years. I'd like my kids to be able to finance all four years, possibly even with books and/or living expenses. I only say this, because I DO think it is a possiblity, and they will be giving up opportunities while they are so close to earning one or more. My daughter has been working specifically at trying to get at least the one scholarship mentioned.
I hate for them to give up these opportunities, because of the high school's unwillingness to allow English and math to count for high school credit, especially when it is the exact same course name.
I am going to continue with the CLEP tests. I was aware of them, but never thought of it as needed, since the CA schools accepted college credit for math and English requirements. Thanks!

Re: GED stigma-

My homeschooled son opted not to take the GED, but it is not unusual for homeschoolers to take it. If they do well (and most do, as it is very basic) they are given the certificate "with honors". Still, it has a certain negative connotation, and used to be mainly for dropouts...

Thanks for sharing the GED experience. I didn't know there is an Honors for some who take it.

For now, I'm not planning on having them take the GED, due to the absence of scholarship opportunities to them if they do. Do you know of any scholarships that accept GED? I haven't seen any...most require a diploma.

I want them to graduate with a high school diploma, along with their normal progressive course load (which seems to end with 2 years of college or more completed), at least with my first two girls it is that way. My 10th grade son though is on the same path.

Many colleges now have pre-requisites for majors that take an extra year after the first two years (generals). This is how they determine whom to allow in specific programs. This means some majors take 5 years on average to finish. (For mine it should take three years). Student loans can be an option, but I fear loans would discourage them from attending grad/law/medical/blah school if they choose to further their education even more. Besides, taking loans would occur only because they are advanced. Not fair!

I wish they could progress at their capability in high school and have the scholarship opportunities available to every other kid their age at high school. These opportunities leave when they are no longer enrolled in the high school or don't receive a diploma, even if they are homeschooled, or attend a private high school online/correspondant that is out of state. It needs to be a school in our home state for many of the scholarships.

I feel they are being pressured to slow their pace, regress, jump through hoops doing extra work, OR miss out what they've worked toward AND miss out with new friends attending their high school.

Time is short for my 12th grade daughter. We have been researching scholarships and plan to start filling out applications. Deadlines are as early as October 1. She is scrambling to finish hs freshman and sophomore English, etc. before her real courses begin.

BTW, I don't complain to my kids about the situation. I am encouraging my daughter that she will be fine....while I watch her work, thinking this just isn't right....determined not to make my son do so much filler work for a diploma.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I think it's important to throw the ball into their court IN WRITING and tell them you want answers IN WRITING. If you go to meetings and if everything is verbal, they can continue to ignore your (rational, logical) arguments, continue to say no, and continue to waste your time. If you tell them you want an answer in writing, it's THEIR time being used up. Plus, they're forced to create a written document that can come back to haunt them. So, they have to be more careful.

This approach forces them to justify their position. Obviously, they can't justify forcing a student to take a backward step, so you make it a lot harder for them and you increase your chances of getting what you want. And you make things easier for the next guy.

At least one person in this thread mentioned that schools are bureaucracies. Bureaucracies run on pieces of paper and take paper much more seriously than spoken communication.

I've won difficult situations (schools, employers, slimy landlords) by writing a direct, polite letter that quotes the law and/or common accepted practice.

Okay, just my 2 cents!

Val

Jayne:
I send you a PM. I am in UT. Not quite at the HS level though

GED could work for the older child, as it seems as if the transfer of credits will be an issue. I was in a similar situation and just decided to take what the high school offered, though this was likely not the better option. For the younger one, could he take AP Calc at the high school and then take the upper division ones at the university? Also, he could try to take the AP classes for the high school and then move to the university for upper division classes. This worked pretty well for me, even though not all of the classes transfered to my high school...

Val said, "At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I think it's important to throw the ball into their court IN WRITING and tell them you want answers IN WRITING."

I have to agree--and confess that I have not put my requests in writing (other than my son's IEP, which I thought would be sufficient). My son would like to petition the school board because it's made up of normal citizens who may not be as bogged down by bureaucracy to see how stupid it is for smart kid to repeat stuff he's done at an advanced level. We're drafting a letter to send to each member and the Superintendent and then requesting time for my son to speak on the agenda of the next board meeting. I think it'll be a good experience for him whether he's successful or not.

Jayne--actually I feel I was mistaken in saying that all the meetings were a waste of time. Really the one meeting that was useful was with the top person in the district for instruction who said she was the only one who could authorize my requests and not to bother with anyone else (and then explained why my requests were denied). There is a usefulness of making some calls in demonstrating to the school board that we've tried other avenues and this is our last resort.

Bumping away the spam!

LilMick - Taking AP classes in physics and Calc is a waste of a year for him (10th grader), since he has been advised by students at the private university to take Physics 1 and Calc 1 at the university in order to do well on the upper division classes.
Even students who earned 5s on the AP tests say they struggled significantly with Physics and Calc. Some were told with 5s they could skip the first year of each, but they regretted it later with upper division courses. The foundation from the university has proven to be a lot stronger for a thorough understanding of the subject areas.

As far as English, I'm bothered that he isn't allowed to take AP English until he is a junior, and even then he has placed out of college Freshman English, and will most likely place out of sophomore level (based on the high college freshman CLEP scores). AP tests are to place out of college English, which he did through CLEP already.
So instead of taking an upper level college course or wherever he tests, they will only allow him to take hs sophomore English.

The problems I'm having here in our state is:
1) High school credit is not given if they do the work or place out at a junior high level or earlier. High school work completed therefore does not bring high school credit.
2) College work and college tests that place the students out of a course do not count toward a high school diploma. Only AP and concurrent enrollment. So if my son places out of the first 2 years of English for college and takes 4 years of college upper division English courses, none of it applies toward a high school diploma.
For my daughter, even though she took 4 years of English, the two that are not the first two years of English are keeping her from meeting the 4 year English requirements for a hs diploma.
3) There are no tests available at the high school level for my children to take at any age to show that they mastered the material already. I have been given information that I can pay for $100 per subject per year per test for some math and a variety of other random courses offered at the high school. The tests do NOT include English, and only 2 math courses. Did I mention I'd need to go to a different district for these tests...an hour away???

What really gets me is the high school has an incredible program for the mentally handicapped where testing and services are free, yet my kids have to pay for everything and are punished if they are too advanced. There is no "certificate" or options given to them as with the mentally handicapped. How is this fair, when I am paying taxes just like them???

I'm getting so fed up, I can hardly stand it. I am thinking I need to find an easy solution for my daughter, and put my son in the private univ in January (when they said he could attend), and then fight.
And we are supposed to be competing with the Asian cultures academically...yeah, right!