Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments "Story Problems" -- references on terms

DS9 is running into issues in math (6th grade) -- which has always been his favorite subject (after gym class). We're watching him do what I would call story problems and he doesn't seem to know the terms -- that is, how to tell whether to add, subtract, divide, multiply. Nor does he know how to divide decimals. This is of course showing up in his grade.

DH showed him some Khan videos but that's confusing DS as it isn't a Common Core approach. Suggestions for helping him get through this? Do we approach the teacher for extra help (she offers it)? Is there a good online guide that won't confuse him more?

Feeling awful that we didn't know this was happening. He has been doing his homework at school and turning it in... without us seeing it.

Do you have any examples of problems he's had difficulty with? Maybe that would give people a better idea of what's going on. What about the Khan Academy videos is confusing? I thought Khan Academy was tied to common core.

Our DS has used MathTacular to help with this. He has learned from videos since he was little. He's in third grade, but fifth grade math.

MathTacular

This message has been approved by DS; current word problem master!

The dividing decimals issues should be simple to fix. Regarding knowing to do on word problems, while it may not be the same issue, my DD11 has struggled off and on with word problems for years. When it comes to math, she does beautifully with learning and applying algorithms that involve only numbers (geometry is also fine), but "Bob left Phoenix on a train traveling 60 mph..." can tie her into knots. She has a hard time figuring out how to set up the problem. I suspect this is not uncommon, but it is certainly something I notice. One remedy I suggest when she seems to not know what number goes where and what to do with what is to sub in easy numbers for the numbers in the problem and see if that makes things become more intuitive (that is, it helps you see that what you need to do is divide, or whatever). I don't know how "legit" this method is, but I used it for years to help me get by with problems that stumped me at first.

I would try tackling real life problems, and see if that engages him. The problem may be one of motivation. Giving him far more difficult problems to solve might also help. He may perceive the problems he's given as simple, misgauges how much cognitive effort to spend to solve them, and thus relies too much on heuristics.

One technique I find effective, after making sure all the normal terms are understood is to practice going the other way. Start with an equation or expression, you or your son can choose, and figure out the English description for it. Just in the same way as when learning a language you need to both read and write to gain mastery, sometimes the same is true for these type problems.

Thank you all for the great suggestions! We will try them. Trying to have him set up the problem is an interesting approach -- he does better when he understands things fully, so that might really work.

blackcat, I wasn't the one watching the Khan Academy with him, but DH said there was something about the terms being used that was confusing him as it was different than his text (probably the point, lol). I will ask him.

Some of the examples seem pretty easy, ex. 15 tennis balls weigh 60 ounces, how many ounces do 5 tennis balls weigh? It seems he gave up and guessed at the answer on that one.

However, we had real progress this morning on figuring out how to calculate percentages using decimals (ex. 12% of 25 is?). I explained the process verbally and he caught on after one or two examples, then he was on fire and asking for more to try. He even said "I'm going to look at my homework again, because I think I did some weird stuff on it before I knew this!" I'm wondering if talking it through works better for him than simply reading the text.

I am assuming that your DS has already mastered long division with integers so that it is just a matter of cases where there are decimals in the dividend and divisor. When only the dividend has a decimal, your DS only has to remember that the decimal lines up in the same spot in the quotient so that's also unlikely the problem. He likely only has trouble remembering the algorithm for how many places to shift the decimal to the left for the quotient to correspond to the requisite rightward shift for the divisor. Some kids, like my DD, just memorizes algorithms automatically, so the challenge is to make her go back and assimilate the logical reasoning and develop number sense. Other kids, like my DS, has an incredible number sense, so the challenge is to make him assimilate the algorithms after he can already see where the decimal should go. Perhaps first figure out where your DS' weakness lay. If he has already developed a strong number sense so that he can automatically tell where the decimal should be in the quotient, leverage that to help him remember the algorithm (i.e., by working backwards).

As for the story problem troubles, it is odd that this is only cropping up with 6th grade math unless curriculums really vary that much across the country? Even my oldest, who was in 2nd grade a dozen years ago, started with addition and subtraction word problems by 2nd grade. This approach makes it easier for most kids to master word problems due to repeated exposure over many years and the gradual expansion of the variety (+,-,x,/, algebra, geometry, etc.) and complexity of word problems. Perhaps it would help to focus your DS' attention on just one type of word problems at a time to allow him to assimilate typical language before contrasting the different types. Does your DS have any language processing weaknesses that may impact comprehension of word problems? If he does not, it may simply be an issue of complexity, which requires more cognitive resources including working memory. By 6th grade math, a word problem likely requires multiple operations to reach the final solution. While some kids can manage to execute multiple operations in a single problem when it is laid out for them, having to "set up" the problems simultaneously pushes them beyond their current cognitive resources. I sometimes see this manifest with very young kids who can do calculations in their head but initially struggle when they have to simultaneously write out the solution.

If he has a decent teacher, I would approach her for help since this has the added benefit of a custom fit with his curriculum.

FWIW, we've had this exact issue with word problems crop up just this year with one of my dds taking *algebra*. (The issue with not understanding how to interpret words meaning +, -, x, /). She's never really loved word problems, but she's a good math student and she's understood word problems up until this year when she was tasked in word problems this year to explain when you add, subtract, etc. The issue cropped up here is related to curriculum, which is wrapped up in common core. It also came up for the first time this year, in Algebra, in a set of curriculum that my kids have used now for 3 courses leading up to Algebra.... soooo... one would think it had come up before but it hadn't lol!

My suggestion is to meet with the teacher to go over what specifically seems to be a challenge for your ds, and to have the teacher explain *how* she expects him to do each type of problem. If it's anything like the math curriculum our kids have had for the past few years, there are very specific "tricks" allegedly designed to make math "easier" to conceptualize which can in fact trip up very bright kids. It's possible your ds absolutely understands how to do something per a parental explanation or a Khan Academy video, but he might not be doing it the same way the teacher expects him to do it.

Best wishes,

polarbear

The example you gave sounds like a ratio or proportion problem and most kids would need instruction on how to set that up and then solve it like an equivalent fraction or cross multiply. I think Khan actually did a decent job explaining that if you go to the sections on ratios.

With the 12% of 20 or whatever problems, remember to keep telling him that OF means "MULTIPLY" in story problems involving decimals or fractions. But you can't multiply a percent you have to convert to a decimal first (my kids struggled with this as well).