Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Visual/ Spatial Learner/ eval results/thoughts?

Hello,
I am preparing for a meeting between DS8's therapist and his teachers- 3rd grade is a little rough.
DS has ADHD and a language impairment affecting social pragmatics. I spoke with DS's therapist a few days ago and she suggested a few things (I will delete all of this later for privacy), but could use some thoughts/ insights:

1. She said DS's quotient result was atypical in that he was all over the place with attention the first ten minutes of the test and paid almost perfect attention the last five minutes. Apparently, kids with ADHD usually have decent attention at the start and fall off quickly.

2. She said in an executive function test called category switching that DS scored in the 98th percentile for categorizing words, but the 25th percentile for switching back and forth.

Mainly, I think this all boils down to what we've known since early toddlerhood-- that DS *really* struggles with switching cognitive sets? (i.e. he's terrible at transitions). Any thoughts?

3. The therapist spent time talking about how she thinks DS is a visual spatial learner. Certainly, when she gave me the literature, I agree that DS seems to fit the profile. *However* when he took the WISC IV, he scored 132 on visual spatial tasks (highest on block design), 144 on Fluid reasoning (primarily because he hit some ceiling in matrix reasoning) and 136 verbal?

Any thoughts about whether this could still fit a visual spatial learning profile? If so, ideas for nurturing this at home and in the classroom? (from a person who nearly flunked high school trig?)

I know this is disparate information-- his teachers need some strategies for working with him. Through no fault of his own, he's a PITA in the classroom. Spaces out on easy directions, intolerance for formal instruction, careless, and appears to want to write out PI 58 places on the whiteboard when the teacher needs it for instruction (according to the teacher who understandably finds this behavior frustrating).

I want to help with strategies to make life better for everyone.

I recall that he actually took the WISC-V and not the -IV, hence separate VSI and FRI results.

1.&2. ADHD is not the only executive dysfunction, just the best known one. It is possible that he has ADHD, with a slightly atypical presentation on the Quotient. Or, it is possible that he has a different executive dysfunction, affecting his cognitive switching (and perhaps other things), and hence organization and processing speed.

Some recommendations: prepare him for transitions, including instructional transitions, e.g., by using a countdown timer during independent work periods, giving several preparatory cues as a transition approaches, posting a daily agenda (and frequently referencing, and consistently following it), provide continuity across transitions, by highlighting similarities and differences between the past, present, and future tasks.

3. I am not sure that I would describe his WISC-V profile as visual spatial, so much as abstract-conceptual. VSI and VCI are nearly indistinguishable, and quite balanced, while FRI is a bit higher. This overlaps with what we call visual-spatial learners, because the verbally-laden nature of accumulated knowledge in our academic system creates an overlap between verbal strengths and crystallized/concrete strengths.

He probably has so little tolerance for ordinary classroom activities because there is so very little scope for abstract thinking in a third grade classroom. What concepts there are were probably mastered by him years ago, and his cognitive orientation thirsts for new ideas and abstractions with which to grapple (probably for longer periods of time, in an immersive way), rather than toying with permutations of the same few concepts. Also, your typical primary/intermediate classroom changes tasks every 15-20 minutes or so (even if subjects change less frequently), which doesn't exactly play to his strengths with regard to switching.

He might like a project to plunge deeply into.

"...intolerance for formal instruction..."

Well, this is just my opinion, which carries no particular authority, as it is based on my experience with one child. But looking around, I think that school is often a mismatch these days for boys, period. All boys, and especially gifted boys. Gifted boys with wonky cognitive profiles more than anyone. I think that school is a poor fit for boys up until about middle school, when they have the maturity and EF skills to do what is asked of them. Before that, the tasks that schools ask them to do are often not all that developmentally appropriate. Many boys (especially gifted or 2e boys) can't do these tasks, and then they get labeled as problems, and then they internalize that label... Maybe our job as parents if we have one of these kids is to protect them as much as possible until they get a little older and everyone can see how awesome they are.

One might say there is some truth to this for parenting any child.

DD sounds similar in that she has ADHD/EF dysfunction and she also did an EF test where she had problems with switching. In a previous report by a different psych she was categorized as a visual spatial learner because her perceptual reasoning on the WISC IV was 147 and Verbal was lower, around 135. Her highest score was matrix reasoning where she hit the ceiling. She was lower on tasks that were timed (like block design) and coding. I see in her many characteristics of visual spatial learners but I think there is an overlap between those characteristics and ADHD. I'm not convinced that such a thing even exists as a visual spatial learner. DS seems to fit the profile better, in that he memorizes maps and can draw maps from memory. DD still sometimes gets her right and left hand confused, and she loses direction easily, yet she can whip puzzles together like they're nothing. It's hard to understand, but I think most of her problem in school is her distractibility. She's distracted by literally everything and can't seem to filter anything out. She also processes slowly, for instance math fluency, and writing fluency, and following directions, she seems a couple steps behind everyone else. Not sure if this rings any bells with you. She also gets bored very easily with anything that is repetitive, further exacerbating the "spacing out" issue.

This is all helpful to me-- I think these learning styles overlap and some of the difficulties may be related to the ADHD and borderline EF skills rather than a certain style. I *do* know that if you give DS paper and pencil or something to do with his hands while you're talking with him or teaching, that his behavior and attention improve dramatically.

I also think this *thing* with the endless, tedious repetition of what he learned four years ago has got him down (see math facts). And holding back a kid with ADHD from advanced concepts because they are not *careful* even when they show every sign of thirsting for complex material is contributing to school aversion.

Overall, I think DS's learning needs are not being met. The school is now sending home math competition problems a grade year ahead that are supposed to take at least 30 minutes to do the sheet and show work. DS is doing them in his head in less than ten minutes. He's starting however, to think that school is a drag and his favorite subject is recess.

DD is the same way--needs something to fidget with and she needs to move around a lot (if she had her way she would pace the room while the teacher is talking). She says that moving actually helps her to focus.

I think that any psychologist would recommend putting a kid with ADHD at the correct conceptual level, with accommodations/modifications made for behaviors related to the ADHD. So if he does a test and all of his errors are related to rushing or being sloppy, that should not hold him back, although I suppose there is a limit to what is acceptable. Our school allows kids to skip material if they pass the end of the year test at 85 percent or above.

Thanks everyone-- in fairness, I think the school and teachers want to be effective and help my son. They are frustrated with his behavior sometimes, and I do understand why.

DS definitely needs a different strategy to deal with transitions- not only to transition out of something that he enjoys doing, but to transition into a new task (I never gave much thought to the second issue, until his therapist brought it up in light of the quotient test results). I'm concerned because the upper grade classrooms seems to leave little time (as little as 20 minutes for math work) for this kind of EF weakness--if DS doesn't immediately involve himself in the work at hand, he will lag and feel even more frustrated.

I think we're going to talk about how to deal with transitions based on something similar to aeh's feedback.

Because DS can finish his mathwork very quickly when focused, I may ask that unfinished work come home. I think in terms of quantity, he may have more work, but I think comparitively it may take him less time to complete. So, if 30 minutes is the max homework time at this age, then he could use it finish what he didn't get done in class (right now, most nights, he is through homework in about 10-15 minutes). The purpose is to move him forward so he not forever stuck working below is his capabilities because of focus issues. It's something to try-- but may backfire if DS can't maintain focus for a longer period of time.

Lastly, I think DS learns in large chunks, and may be very far beyond where he was at the end of a school year and start of another school year. I don't think the school can do much about this learning style. DS learns subjects like math almost intuitively. Once he had a few basics, he has learned how to do some intermediate algebra equations on his own. I don't think a regular school, even a rigorous one can accommodate a kid who, at present, needs and tolerates very little instruction.

Complaining aside, I will be forever grateful for what this school has accomplished with DS in language arts. It's not all bad.