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    #223518 10/09/15 07:25 PM
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    I don't want to offend anyone so if you are sensitive about religion you may want to close this post. I'm curious whether anyone has a child who is/was fascinated by religion, and if the religious views were contrary to what your "social network" believes, how did you handle this? DS8 has found a copy of the Bible and he is now reading the Old Testament as a fascinating historical document full of "great myths" similar to the myths of other ancient people, like the Greeks, Romans, or Egyptians. I never told him that the Bible was a myth, he came up with that on his own. The problem is, DS has no filter. He is very young and tends to babble on about his various fascinations. If anyone in our family (full of very conservative Christians) hears him talk about the Bible the way he talks about it, there will be an uproar. And who knows what he says about it at (public) school. He wanted to take it to read at school, but I put my foot down on that one and told him to please not discuss any of this (but that seems wrong). I'm also concerned that the Bible will confuse him, since it has to be way above his reading level, and I'm not equipped with the knowledge myself to try to interpret it for him (heck, it's above the reading level of most adults). Has anyone dealt with anything like this? I guess it's simpler if you yourself have clear beliefs and you can tell your child "You need to believe X, but not Y" but I can't do that. I'm also not an archaeologist/historian and have no idea which parts of the Bible are historically accurate and I doubt there is anything at his reading level that explains this. He carefully packed up the Bible in his suitcase a few hours ago and is probably reading it at boy scout camp right now. I am hoping he doesn't talk about it there.

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    You may find the book "Raising Freethinkers" of interest. It helps guide non-religious families through moral and ethical topics, questions about respect for extended-family beliefs, discussing death, and more.

    Raising Freethinkers: A Practical Guide for Parenting Beyond Belief
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/0814410960/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_b5hgwb4K86PHE

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    As I read your post, I hear three separate issues to address:

    1. Ensuring your DS understands the language and context of the bible, including the historicity of the writing and the subjects/events contained therein.

    2. Giving your DS the tools to evaluate the veracity and validity of information/beliefs.

    3. Building the social intelligence to respectfully discuss sensitive topics with others.

    On the first count, I can offer many good resources on biblical interpretation and theological tradition from a Catholic or a neutral Christian perspective. There is considerable divergence in opinion among the various Protestant denominations and Catholicism, and it pays to find trustworthy resources to inform the learning process. I assume from the tone of your post that your family is not particularly affiliated with one faith. What is your openness to your son exploring and, potentially, choosing a faith that is not your own?

    On item two, religion is a unique beast. He might really like Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica, which is essentially a series of philosophical arguments and logical refutations made to form the underpinning of essentially all Christian faith. Even if your family isn't Catholic, Aquinas does a masterful job in his treatment of the existence and nature of God. (As my name suggests, I am an ardent fan.

    On point three, I think the key is to cultivate an attitude that the vast majority of people are good people seeking the truth, and that different life circumstances, experiences, and abilities create situations where people can reasonably choose different beliefs. The fact that such a large share of the world subscribes to monotheistic faith is, itself, a remarkable confluence of belief! Encourage him to speak politely to others, and actively foster a perspective of being a student. If he sees exchanges with others as opportunities for personal growth, he will be more humble in his approach. Ask questions, find a good spiritual director to field his questions and model theological debate.

    I love that your son is finding this interest himself!


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    longcut--thank you, i will get a copy of that book, it looks good.

    aquinas, I am willing to read anything. I don't necessarily want to tell the kids there is no god, and I am open to letting them decide for themselves what they want to believe (as long as it's not something that I view as ridiculous, like some sort of cult).
    I was raised Lutheran but realized I can't buy into most of it anymore. Everyone around me takes the Bible very literally. I'm not necessarily atheist or agnostic, it's just more of a "no idea what to believe" state of mind, and I have no idea what to tell the kids. I was able to avoid this issue until DS became fascinated by the topic. I allowed him to watch a NOVA show (he loves documentaries) http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/bibles-buried-secrets.html
    So that's probably what got him latched onto this topic (along with the Percy Jackson books, probably, which I have not read).

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    Portia--I'm concerned about appropriateness, esp, in light of the fact that he is wanting to learn about religion in a community that has a very strong belief system that I don't share. I don't want to say they are "wrong" (for all I know, they're not, at least not 100 percent wrong). I'm actually confused as to how people can believe something that is not a scientific fact and be so sure that they are right, and dismiss any evidence to the contrary (for instance, people who insist that the earth was created in 6 days). I am worried about the fact that he will offend/disturb people (esp. people close to us who may freak out, thinking we're going to hell, and put us on prayer chains). But I also don't know how to answer any questions that come up. I can tell them what I "think is probably true" but no one has all the answers. An 8 year old is probably going to want something to believe, not a bunch of "I think this is probably the answer, but I could be wrong" responses. Is that really fair to them? I have to put my foot down in terms of certain things (like believing the earth was created literally in 6 days) but other than topics like that, which can not be verified or disputed with science, it's all a big unknown. In the same way that I don't want to tell him that the Bible is just a bunch of made up stories, I also don't want to tell him that there is no God, because I don't have the answers. I have respect for people who can have a "strong faith" (or the opposite--no faith at all) and teach their child to follow it, but I can't do that. So then what? Especially if you have a child who thinks about all of this much more than most adults think about it? Most people say they are a certain faith and they accept it, but understand very little about why they actually believe it. They accept it because they were indoctrinated by their parents and church when they were young. Or they don't accept it, but follow religious traditions/practices in order to fit into their community. I don't want my kids going down that path.
    Like I said, I don't want to offend anyone and probably 80 percent of the general population would be offended by this thread. I'm looking for other people who have the same sorts of concerns, esp. with a gifted child, who is fascinated with the topic, and parents who value teaching their child to think critically.

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    Blackcat,

    I don't have very many answers but I'm going to commiserate with you. Our DD is younger than your DS but our extended families are extremely religious and DH and I don't share their beliefs. If they knew what we really thought on the topic they'd be organizing prayer chains for us.

    Before we had children we struggled with what we were going to tell them about God/religion. We didn't feel right telling a small child that there was no God but we also didn't want to decree that the existence of God was unquestionable. We decided that we would tell the kids that God was a benevolent force that they could talk to if they felt scared and that the force would listen and that the act of talking would make them feel better. When DD asks us or says something regarding a religious belief to us, we respond by saying that is what some people believe. Sometimes when it's appropriate we ask her what she believes and we say great to what ever she answers. We've left the door open for her to develop her own beliefs or join a religion of her own choosing. That said, her questioning beliefs and having these type of discussions would not go over well at the Thanksgiving table. We've explained to her that there are some topics that we discuss at home freely but that other people may not feel comfortable with those topics. We tell her that everyone is entitled to their beliefs and we don't need to all agree. It's not always imperative that we let others know that we disagree with them either. So far this has kept us from having any explosive confrontations. Hopefully it continues to work.

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    Originally Posted by blackcat
    Portia--I'm concerned about appropriateness, esp, in light of the fact that he is wanting to learn about religion in a community that has a very strong belief system that I don't share.

    I don't know your ds, so can't predict the best way to deal with it from his unique personality, but fwiw, we've found with our children it helps to talk about our beliefs and our differences at home, in depth, and then with an understanding that not everyone believes the same things, help them understand that it's important to be respectful of others' beliefs. I am sure I'm not explaining this well but in general, having an open dialogue at home has, I think, helped prevent any of my kids saying something disrespectful to others (and helped them not think of others with disrespect). This is my suggestion:

    Rather than focus on what the differences between your beliefs are, have you considered looking for commonalities? While you may not believe in the specific details of conservative Christianity, I've found that in considering different religions (and non-religions) that most human beings have core values centered on being good, honest, fair in how we treat others etc. Most of us are seeking to live a good life while we are here on earth, and many of us have different ideas about what happens when we die but none of us know for certain.

    If you want to get deeper into differences, you can talk about why different beliefs come about - often because people are seeking a truth or reassurance that there is something more than what we know of here on earth, sometimes because people are scared, sometimes because people are vulnerable to what other people preach etc. I don't know what the situation is specifically within your family, but you might approach talking to your ds about your own journey - how you were raised, what led you to the place you are now in your beliefs etc.

    Last thought - I've found that discussing different beliefs etc have actually been really interesting conversations with my children. Perhaps you and your ds could turn this around a corner a bit from him digging deep into reading about other religions to the two of you exploring a bit together, reading, talking, researching. I'm not suggesting you do that to change/morph any of your beliefs! Just suggesting that by discussing it with him and following him a bit as he digs deeper, it might help lead to good discussions where you can tackle the idea of how to deal with this within the community you are living in in a way that is respectful of others so you don't have to worry about what he will say to others. Hope that makes sense!

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    One of my kids became interested in religious ideas and the existence of a god in kindergarten, soon after his 6th birthday. He asked a lot of questions, which we answered neutrally. For example, he'd heard about a place called "heaven" one day and wanted to know about it. I remember telling him that some people believe [a], some people believe [b], while others believe [c], and that there was no definitive proof about anyone's ideas.

    By some point in first grade, he decided he was agnostic. He was excited about the idea, and wanted to discuss it with his friends. They didn't understand. He brought it up again when they were 8, and they understood enough at that point to get angry with him. I had a talk with him and told him he'd have to wait for several years to have that discussion. We went over this idea a few times until I was sure that he understood it. Part of what I told him was that other kids just weren't ready to understand what he was saying yet, and he had to respect that. I also explained to him that he shouldn't talk about his ideas in front of his younger siblings, as they were too young to understand at the time or hadn't asked the same questions yet. Again, when they asked questions, we answered. We just didn't want big brother to be in a position of making them feel like they had to think the way he did (being the oldest and all).

    I agree with you that taking the bible to school is a bad idea (especially at his age, but in general at a public or secular school). I understand his enthusiasm for new ideas. I remember how interested my son was in this area. At the same time, at that age, he almost certainly can't know that other people might get wound up or start making assumptions about him that he might not like (or be able to respond to). Certainly, my son didn't, and I would expect that lack of knowledge at that age. If you have a talk with him about this idea, it might help with his ability to filter.

    We also have strong religious belief in our family. One side is upset that we don't take the kids to church, but religion is personal for them and they would never dream of telling us we should follow their beliefs. But I wouldn't discuss lack of belief with them because it would be too upsetting for them. The other side is conservative Christian, but less wound up about lack of belief (at this point, anyway). I discuss the topic with them if it comes up, and it never gets ugly. It would have 15 years ago.

    To answer your question, my ideas are pretty clear. At the same time, I didn't force them onto my kids when they were little (neither did my DH). Two of them are teenagers now and are well old enough to form their own opinions. The youngest is 11 and began to crystallize her current opinions two years ago during a day in a museum (we were walking through a large gallery of Renaissance paintings that were mostly religiously oriented).

    Our big thing is to tell our kids that no one has a right to tell them what to believe, and that they have to decide for themselves.

    Last edited by Val; 10/10/15 02:18 PM.
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    Thanks for all the suggestions/commiseration. I appreciate it. If anyone has any resources for thinking critically about this topic (some book or video similar to the Nova show, but not so advanced that a kid wouldn't be able to understand), I'd appreciate it. I feel like there is almost no information out there for people even to make their own judgments. What IS out there is usually from the opposite side--religious groups disputing scientific findings.

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    I wonder if there is some Sartre for kids - I struggled with this most of my adult life and eventually found solace through the concept of an invented diety to cope with abandonment. However I may have completely misinterpreted his work 😉

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