Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Ever been questioned about autism?

I think the less familiar people are with autism spectrum disorders, the more likely they are to incorrectly ID an HG+ child with them. In the doctor's case--since I hope she's familiar!--I think Jool is right that she's just casting a wide net.

FWIW, I have had people suggest that DS7 might be on the spectrum a time or two (he's not), but each time it was someone who heard about DS7's obsessions and his lining up his toys (which he did a lot around ages 2-3 and got over by around 4-ish) from someone else, secondhand.

No one who has met him ever suggested he had Asperger's Syndrome or any other autism spectrum issue. To hear him described, especially at 2 or 3, you can see why they thought it might be an issue: introvert, obsessed with his own interests, spends lots of time playing alone, lined up his cars and got upset if they were moved, very bright, etc. But he's highly social, very aware of social cues, and always has been. He was an only child at the time, so of course he played alone a lot. And pattern is his thing, so the lining up made perfect sense: ala "Don't mess up my pattern, you creep!"

What does all this mean? Well, I guess I'm glad the ped is asking the question, and I'm glad she realizes it's not the case for your child.

The pediatricians that my son saw (several different ones at a military base) never said anything about autism, but when he saw the developmental pediatrician at age seven and she looked at the information I had written about him and the copies of message board posts from when he was preschool age, she said she was sure he had Asperger's, especially after reading a post describing him as talking like a little professor sometimes and reading without being taught at 2 1/2. But after she talked to him she said he did not have it. He has no trouble with social skills, has never had any trouble making eye contact, is able to discuss lots of different subjects which is a good thing because his friends are interested in different things. For instance, the friend that visited yesterday is very interested in history and politics so they talked about that for a while before they played video games. Today the one gifted friend that is his age and the only one of his friends who says he likes math more than other subjects, invited him over to his house. I doubt they will talk about math, but if this friend wants to talk about math, my son can carry on a decent conversation about that too even though it isn't his favorite subject. Another of his gifted older friends is very into Harry Potter and fiction so they talk about books--each of them talking about what they liked about their favorite books and trying to pursuade the other to read the books they find the most interesting. His friend still won't read the historical fiction my son likes best and my son still won't read the Harry Potter, but they still enjoy talking about books and making jokes and talking about the funniest You Tube videos. My son noticed before his friend did, that a girl in the acting class seemed very interested but was shy, so he told his friend about it and found other things to do so his friend and this girl could talk. I think he is more aware of body language than most people. He always seemed very perceptive and at times it felt like he could read my mind and he was my only child to really want to know more about me as a person, not just as mom. My son's personality and sense of humor is so much like his dad's and people really seem to like my husband at meetings and conferences. He was put in charge of training for the office because of his people skills and ability to teach and making people feel at ease so they can learn. This is what attracted me to him. When I meet people that have worked with him they tell me that these meetings are not quite so boring when he is there.

He never lined up his toys or had a problem with a change in plans, which happened often in his acting class.

When he was 4 1/2 a teenager in his acting class told me that he must be "autistic or something" to be able to memorize his lines so quickly and he sometimes said that my son was like a 20 year old in a little kid's body.

I think part of my son's "problem" is that he has a little kid voice but talks more like an adult. I will not tell him to dumb down his speech if he is talking to other adults. His older gifted friends understand him. I think by the time he is in college, he will fit right in.

My son does have a lot in common with kids with Asperger's because he has sensory integration dysfunction, motor dyspraxia and hypotonia and some but not all kids with these issues have Asperger's. He says a kid he met online who was diagnosed with Asperger's shares a lot of his interests and he deals with some of the same issues.

(warning - soap box being erected) I think that mis-diagnosis is quite a problem with certain subsets of kids - particularly late talking kids. My three oldest kids were all late talkers, so we've been around the block on this issue. My two DS5's had no words until around 3 y.o. One of them had head-banging tantrums from the frustration, along with an obsession with lining up toy cars, etc. Fortunately now he's very normal (he's the one whose preschool teacher complains is "underachieving"; he was too social last year lol). The other one took quite a long time to talk and is still in speech therapy at 5.5 y.o. - they start K next week and he has an IEP. He is very introverted, has few friends, etc. My own mother called me to say she had seen a TV show about autism and wondered if he had it. Irritating, to say the least.

The idea of the spectrum seems to expand continuously - I have yet to see a concrete definition of what constitutes PDD-NOS that really has finite meaning (all of my older three kids would have fit under this at some point very early in their lives, it's so vague). Everyone seems to think they know what it is, but the key to the diagnosis of autism itself ("spectrum" aside) is the severe lack of emotional empathy - I can't remember the exact words. I'd go by the DSM criteria (available on-line). There is an excellent chapter in The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide on autism and the other issues with overlapping symptoms (sensory processing disorder is a prime example). I guess I think it's a bad idea to lump autistic kids together with PDD-NOS kids as far as statistics go because they are not the same thing; I guess I think it's inaccurate that PDD-NOS is often referred to as the autism spectrum.

I think the expensive treatment is called Applied Behavioral Therapy, or something similar, and my understanding is that it can be harmful for someone who doesn't actually have autism. Imagine if a gifted, extremely introverted young child were forced to sit for *hours* each day doing repetitive things with a therapist. I can only imagine what my own kids would do - they would feel abused, I think. And, overdiagnosis may take away resources from the truly autistic kids who really, really need them. I also wonder whether the supposed benefit from starting the therapy very young may be skewed in the research by misdiagnosed kids - the old mantra from a late talkers group I used to read is that if the symptoms go away when the language comes in, it wasn't that the therapy cured them, it's that the child wasn't autistic to begin with. The trouble begins with the fact that symptoms related to speech/language delay are the primary early markers relied upon. I can't stress enough how good the chapter is in The Mislabeled Child - things like eye contact issues can be caused by other problems.

Food for thought: there seems to be a right-brain-strength connection with autism, and part of me wonders whether it's some sort of extreme form of visual-spatial, right-brain thinking with extreme left-brain weaknesses. As in, the far end of that continuum. Moreover, I wonder whether right-brain thinkers/visual-spatial learners are generally on the increase in society due to whatever evolutionary factors, and accordingly, whether the rise in autism is merely a reflection of that.

I hate hearing about kids who were "diagnosed" by speech therapists and OTs, etc., rather than a competent neuropsych. Our speech therapist has similar concerns about some of her patients and has said that misdiagnosis can affect lots of things down the line - we all think we have problems getting our kids into the right classroom, think about what a school does with an autistic student, keeping them in special ed classes where the academics might not be all that challenging, and how hard that would be on a misdiagnosed student! - and then there are insurance issues, etc. Apparently it is very difficult to have that label removed once it is there.

So to answer the original question, yes people have considered autism with regard to some of my kids, though not for their giftedness, as they are late-bloomers (and we haven't even really clarified whether either one of my DS5's is gifted). But it would not surprise me one bit if people were to go around speculating that certain gifted kids were autistic. ok off my soapbox - sorry, this can be a bit of a sensitive subject for me.

This is an interesting discussion. I'm glad you didn't start panicking when the dr. started questioning you, CatherineD! That would be so easy to do.

My DD4 would line stuff up obsessively. At exactly 11-12 months she'd build towers of similar blocks 12 or more high. She'd line up shoes and dolls and toys in an ordered way. But she is almost TOO social, if that is possible. She flirts shamelessly and is fixated on older girls at her preschool. It is really alarming after being used to a fairly laid back, go with the flow boy. No one ever suggested autism on her, but her ped has commented on her extreme sensitivity since she was 2 months old and would absolutely flip out when the dr. would come near her. I think her 4 year old appt is the first time she actually would have a conversation with the pediatrician. She also hadn't been sick at all from 3 to 4, so she hadn't had a "bad" appt.

Never any autism questions on DS7. ADD or ADHD was hinted by some really horrible preschool teachers, but neither his K or 1st grade teacher ever saw this in him. He is definitely not ADHD, although he does have plenty of energy and tends to get a little squirrel if he is in a new or an uncomfortable situation. And he was also trying to take on the role of class clown last year in school as an outlet. Could have been worse!

I got the "attention issues" comment several times from DS's 1st grade teacher. She even wrote it on his final report card. His 2nd grade teacher (a new teacher where as 1st grade teacher was a veteran) said that it isn't inattention, rather he is very thoughtful and takes his time and also has issues with doing work he thinks is too easy for him.

This is so interesting.

When I took my ds to be assessed I mentioned all the behavours he exhibited that I had observed in those on the autistic spectrum. I.e, lining up cars and toys and an obsession with sorting everything into groups by colour,shape or size.

He later moved onto categorizing every piece of information he can. He still does.
He exhausts one obsession before moving onto another. I too have had the label and the other one(adhd) thrown at me. However he is very social, empathetic and communicates well.

I am lucky in that I have worked with people with autism for over twenty years and can see many behaviours that are gt typical that are also present in autism. I know too that my ds fits nowhere at all the spectrum. It takes an expert clinician to diagnose autism and the classic triage of behaviours, lack of communication, imagination and socialisation should be there before even considering autism. Others are resistance to change and obsessions.

I think the obsessions that we see in gt children are very different to the obsessive rituals that are seen in autistic spectrum. It is really just a list of observed behaviours that the more you can see, the further up the spectrum a person is. The same with adhd.

Unfortunately I have had to put more than a few people right when they have suggested it to me. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing in the wrong hands. It is wonderful to be able to read such an interesting topic here handled so well.

Yes!!! Or a book group! Urgh.... Why is it when someone has read one fictional book and discussed it with their friends over coffee, all of a sudden they're qualified diagnosticians????

We laughed... we cried... we mailed in the coupon for a medical degree...

DS is very quirky -- especially verbally quirky -- but we have a pediatrician, a psychologist and a speech pathologist who have given their reasoned professional opinions based on several hours of interaction and/or testing that he is (insert drum roll.....) Just Quirky! The speech pathologist said he's "cute" too. He's not autistic. No one with any kind of professional background that would have any reason to consider it has ever even brought it up, and he doesn't exhibit any warning signs, but that hasn't stopped random people who read a book once from suggesting it. *sigh*

Now other things? Sure. I wouldn't rule out a little mild OCD (emphasis on the O, not the C -- no rituals, but occasional invasive thoughts), and he has a few very specific and predictable frustrations, involving too much chaos and not enough personal space. The first he's handling fine and redirects himself with only a little assistance, so if he can manage it through the teen years I won't worry. The second is improving with maturity and practice, and it's a very inward-directed frustration -- never lashing out. If he can remove himself from a frustrating situation he does, and it's fine. But even with those things, he's the easiest kid in the world to parent and if THAT is autism(??) then I don't see what the problem is.

<wiping spewed coffee off the computer>

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I'm also thinking that these things ARE a spectrum.

I mean, there are engineers on both sides of the family, and as an English-y type, I can say that all have a tendency toward behaviors that shade toward the autism spectrum. But they are fully functioning, social creatures. Would any of them need some sort of diagnosis? NO!

In fact, the behaviors that one might look at and say "Hmmm...AS?" about actually tend to HELP them in their work, and don't interefere with their personal relationships because we who are not engineers knew what we were getting into when we chose to live with these guys! If I had to live with an extroverted guy who wasn't highly focused on his latest project, it wouldn't work for me. I chose a suitable mate for my personality, and I'm happy with what I got!

I really dislike it when people try to "diagnose" personality. I think that approach valorizes a certain sort of extroverted personality and devalues another sort of introvert, a sort that has historically made many of the significant advances in our society. I mean, think about it: who figures out how things work? Who makes scientific advancements and discoveries? The party animal, or the guy who is a little too obsessed with his latest obsession, be it cars or space...or flint-knapping and spear design, back in the day! I think some measure of that kind of "obsession" and introversion is useful and desirable, not debilitating or problematic.

I'm definitely with Erica and the rest of you who are annoyed with the armchair doctors out there!

What about relatives who feel qualified to diagnose Asperger's after having read only one magazine article about it in a Time magazine. No books, just one article, and the relative knew more than doctors. She thinks the doctors must be wrong because it is not right that a then 9 year old knew enough about the subject she was talking about at a family dinner that he was able to point out an error in something she said, and he was right. She has a college degree, he doesn't, so in order for him to be able to talk the way he does and know the things he knows, in her opinion, it must be Asperger's.