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Since the current tests we have can't really distinguish well at the tails, it's pretty arbitrary where the cut-off for each LOG is. But I'm with Dottie: I'd go with DYS requirements since they are an accepted expert on PG kids.

It's not ideal because the tests are inaccurate. But until we have a better test, it's the best we can do.

So you'd say DYS is PG and if you just miss that, you're HG rather than MG? I was thinking 145+ is HG. Or is what Dotty saying that 145 on both IQ and achievement gives PG hat rather than a HG hat?

I certainly didn't say that! I was saying the tests are not good for what we're having to use them for, so trying to draw hard-and-fast lines between levels is kind of impossible, and probably the best we can do is to follow an accepted policy like DYS's. (Though that's certainly not ideal.)

We're not big on drawing lines around here. It's why "HG+" is the accepted term on this forum. Personally, I think that's a good policy.

I think DYS looks for kids working at least 3 years above grade level, so this seems a bit high based on their standards. It also is problematic for kids who are 2E. But for my part, I'm all in favor of more tools for IDing LOGs rather than fewer. I think looking at where a child is operating makes great sense!

LOL!

I use the terminology the same way. I tend to refer to individuals with scores over 145 as HG or PG depending on the context.

This is Dr. Ruf's revised (for Wisc IV and SB 5) levels of giftedness.

Level One 117-129 MG
Level Two 125-135 HG
Level Three 130-140 EG
Level Four 135-141 EG to PG
Level Five 141+ EG to PG

She also adds a note that the current tests cannot adequately distinguish between EG and PG.

This was very interesting, and all over the map.

Too bad there wasn't a black and white definition, it might help with advocacy.

Ren

This is the Hoagies Chart:

Level of Giftedness IQ score (old test)
(WISC-III, WPPSI-R, SB-4, SB L-M)

MG 130 - 145
HG 145 - 160
EG 160 - 180 (SB L-M only)
PG 180 and above (SB L-M only)

IQ Score (new tests) WISC IV, WPPSI III

MG 130-138
HG 138-145
EG 145-152
PG 152-160


IQ Score (new test) SB5
MG 120-129
HG 125-135
EG 130-140
PG 135-141+

I think the Hoagies chart is not really popular the way it distinguish between WISC IV and SBV. I would say that chart is to be avoided. It just confuses people.

I have trouble with the college entrance age as well unless you are talking about taking one or two classes as opposed to f/t college. Lots of parents choose not to send their kids at such early age to college.

I personally love HG+ when it comes to both of my kids. I could count on the fingers of one hand how many times I've used PG for my DYS. It's not that I would think that DYS kids are not PG, but it feels different when it comes to my own child.

The Davidson Young Scholars qualifications lists both the SBV and the WISC-IV cut offs equally. I don't have experience with the SBV, but my dd's school requires a minimum 145 on the old tests and a 138 on either the WISC IV or the SB5 for entrance (as a HG student).