Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Arguing Ceiling Effect For Appeal

So I spoke with someone else at the school about my dd today and was told they have never allowed a child into the program who did not meet the specific criteria of the rubric no matter what other attributes the child possess, that the appeals is used more if there is a testing error. So in researching today I came across an article that states:

"Dr. Linda Silverman also highly recommends the use of tests with higher ceilings to reduce ceiling effects. The situation occurs when a student obtains one or more subtest scores at the 99th percentile; then the composite score is actually well below the student's capabilities"

On the Inview test my dd did get a 99 in one of the subtest, so is it fair to argue her results are not accurate? The article goes on to say:

"The major problem encountered in assessing the gifted is ceiling effects. Most people are unaware of the extent to which low test ceilings can depress IQ scores in the gifted range."

I feel that is a valid point on why her score is invalid and likely much higher than what is represented on her report.

Anyone have luck with proving the ceiling effect did impact their child's score or any articles to share on this that may help?

We are meeting on Tuesday, but I truly feel unless I can get them to accept her score may be inaccurate we are stuck for the next two years until they retest the kids. I was feeling very defeated after our phone call this morning, but finding this information has given me a little silver lining.

On a side note I am horrified by how little the people we are speaking with know about the test they are giving. Nobody has yet to be able to tell me why her CSI score is lower that what would be typical of a score in the 98th percentile. One answer was the sections must be weighted differently which is lowering the score another said they would have to read through the book and get back to me. I think they should be well informed on the test they are using.

Which tests did she take?

Sorry, She took the InView Terra Nova test. Her overall was in the 98th percentile her CSI was a 126.

Hopefully aeh might be able to share some insight on this?

aeh has been very helpful already. I wouldn't even know why my dd's CSI scores were lower than what I would have thought a 98th percentile would have. I am very appreciative for all of the information I have been able to get here. It has been very helpful. Navigating this process is very difficult, especially when the people we are dealing with seem to know so little about the testing.

Will your school/board accept outside testing?

No they won't.

Yes, the forums are very fortunate to have aeh... and other wonderful BTDT posters. Polarbear and Portia especially come to mind.

I still haven't found much info on how much it impacts scores.

I emailed the Principal a few questions so hopefully he'll get back to me before the meeting.

Did you request a reply prior to the meeting date... possibly including words which may indicate a benefit to the principal and school team, such as, "In order to make the best use of everyone's time at the meeting..."?

Yes, I did. I also asked him specific questions about InView. The last person we met with gave us false information on how the InView is scored. I asked him if the information we were given at the last meeting was accurate (even though I know it isn't). I want to have in writing if anyone I have spoken with actually understands the test they are using.

I find it extremely alarming the ones making decisions for gifted placement are not familiar with the specifics of the test.

I am going to follow up Monday to make sure I have answers before we go. When we spoke on the phone I told him I would follow up with him via email with my specific questions and concerns. He said he needed to read the InView manual to find out the answers for the test related questions.

Way to go!

LOL, once I asked for information before a meeting, and it was e-mailed approximately 10 minutes prior to the meeting, at which time I was already at school (to ensure I arrived on time despite traffic, train crossings, etc).

Smirky smiles seemed to suggest the timing was strategically planned, and I quickly made a note to ask, on future occasions, for them to send information prior to the meeting date.

Subsequently I learned from others that it was not uncommon for schools to fulfill requests in a bare-minimum way, which causes parents to create carefully worded requests.

FYI, if it's an official IEP or 504 meeting, you have a legal right to have paper copies of all evaluation reports (anything used in formal decision-making) 2 school days before the meeting. Ask for that specifically.

Yes, this particular set of meetings was related to G and acceleration. The school was reluctant to exceed previous acceleration precedent, and used a variety of tactics to stall the inevitable, testing our mettle in the process.

Although some say gifted comes under special ed law, we've not seen the same protections for G as for the 2nd e. The laws which do exist for G do not seem to have teeth, and policies can be rather quickly amended, while a school delays its decisions.

I often recommend printing gifted policies which are in effect at the moment, in case the district makes a change in the interim, resulting in a policy which is less favorable.

Another error I believe they are making is that they are violating the states gifted policy. It states that when a person is appealing the decision a group of people not involved in the original decision must be used. They are not doing that. We are meeting with the same people who make the decision. I am going to bring the policy on gifted programs, but bringing that into it may escalate the situation to something much more confrontational. I just want them to see how poorly this whole process is being implemented and hopefully make changes.

You've done great research.

Have copies, document who is involved in each decision, and be prepared to follow up with your state department of education if needed. You might ask them about the policy: their interpretation of the policy, when that policy might come into play, whether it applies to this situation, how they believe it applies, etc.

Bear in mind that if the school is out of compliance, they are the ones making this confrontational; Don't let them place blame, shame, or guilt on you.

Please tell us how it went.

He just emailed me:

I went through the InView teachers guide today and wasn’t able to glean much more info on the range and CSI (other than the range width is determined by the standard error of measurement).

He asked if I could call him tomorrow before our meeting, otherwise he will see us there. Keeping my fingers crossed!! I will update after the meeting.

Is it possible that the standard error of measurement might allow for the 1 point by which your daughter's score was shy of their cut score?

So we received a call shortly before our meeting. Apparently there was an error in how my dd's school calculated the scores for the rubric. My dd's was one of them so they have referred us to the curriculum director at district office as they have never had this happen before. I am not going to assume this means they will allow her into the program because at this point it is hard to ever know what they will do, but it certainly has made our case much stronger. I honestly don't see how they can deny her placement, but not sure how many kids it is going to effect either and what that will mean. Because we are in a state with no gifted policy, I'm not sure we have any real options regardless, but very hopeful they will do the right thing. Is there any legal recourse in a state with very lose gifted policies?